JeepYJv8

Hey ive been tuning with tuner pro for about 1 year now. Im still having a hard time figuring it all out. I've read come in for free tun thread at least 5 times. I just cant get it exactly where i want it. it does run good pretty good, but im looking for more refined program.

I downloaded tuner cat when i was just getting into burning, but never used it. i dont have any free trial left. My question is opinions on which one is more refined. hopefully from people that have used both? i list my hardware software below

OBD1 1227747 (engine orgin 1990 gmc jimmy full size)
ALDL Cable USB-OBD-1
Moates Burn 2
EX Remote
G2x Switching adapter
Win aldl for the logging
Innovate LM-1 WB AF
chip i burn is 27sf512 (if i remember correctly?)

Thanks in advance. most are telling me to ditch the TBI and go carb and forget the problems. being im hard core offroad/ water. But I just want to get this thing tuned Perfect! i know that takes forever but i feel im getting nowhere.
Thanks in advance!

The_Punisher454

I bought tunercat a long time ago. played with it but never really used it much.
Tunerpro requires a bit more time for the user to set it up, but I think its a lot more versatile V5 really adds a lot of capability. I love being to set up histogram tables to display whatever I want. It seems like with the datatracing now all the pieces are in place to add some autotuning utility's.

Dont listen to those guys.

BASSr

Hey JeepYJV8,

Don't feel alone!

I am just getting into the programming aspect of this since I don't want to spend a fortune like I have in the past to get my project tuned correctly, so I figured I would try doing my own chip editing/burning. Now I am not a newbie to technology, been doing this for a few decades but what I am finding here seems to be what I call "the fox watching the hen house" syndrome.

I have a project (dropped an '88 IROC LB9 TPI motor in my '87 camino) and want to do the ECM chip modifying myself so I bought a USB chip burner, some 27SF512 chips, and downloaded the TunerCat editor.

The reason I did the TunerCat first over the TunerPro was the "Free 30 Trial Period". I have purchased many application programs that I have not been pleased with after the fact. Figured the TunerCat would allow me to see if it was as good as the references on this forum say it is.

Well, first thing I find is that TunerCat has to have a specific definition file "included" and the default one ($42) is for '87-'91 C/K trucks/vans. Well that seems a little strange to me????? What does that have to do with "3rd Gen F-Bodies"? There is a disclaimer on the web page that says additional definition files can be purchased ($19), but the "FREE" trial also says that it is a "Fully Functional" version for the first 30 days. What about "FREE" trial and "Fully Functional" am I missing here???

Like I said, I don't mind having to spend $$$, just don't like being misled.

Now I am sure someone is going to respond here and indicate that I "just don't understand" or that it is not that "simple", and I agree. That said, then the TunerCat program needs to have its "Legal" disclaimer modified to say it is a "Limited" 30 day trial based on the definition file that is included.

So I can not "evaluate" the TunerCat editor without being hooked into spending some $$$ with them! That will keep me hooked into them or I am throwinf away $19

Just my $.02

Bruce

BASSr

I also forgot to mention that I can not find on the TuneCat "Options" tab the indicated selection to change the hardware for where the burner is.

Help in TunerCat says that is supposed to be there but not in my downloaded version.

Also, the chip burner I bought is USB. Does TunerCat look for USB devices?? or Just serial?

Can not find the answer to that any where on the website or in the Help document? Anybody know??

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Note that the $42 TDF file for Tuner CAT covers ALL '7747 ECMs.

The trial version of TunerCAT is fully functional.

There are two major differences between TunerCAT and TunerPro.

TunerCAT needs to be purchased, TunerPro is free.

TunerCAT provides support for the ECM definition files (tdf files).

For TunerPro the ECM definition files (xdf files) are created by the DIY community. Some have errors in them, others are good, support is via the DIY community.

RBob.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

This^^^

Tuner Pro is completely functional from the second you download and install it. TP RT just has a 10 second "nag" pop up at the beginning if you haven't registered it, other than that fully functional. The $35 or so for the donation is completely worth it. Mark does a great job with the program and is constantly looking to improve it.

The trial period of Tuner Cat is fully functional, but can only be used with the $42 definition. I have downloaded it and didn't really care for it. The functionality just seemed limited.

I have found that tuning the '7747 ECM to "perfection" is going to cause you to go insane. While it does a great job of running an engine, it just seems limited on how close to perfectly running the engine you can get. I have tuned a few now, and there always seems to be a compromise between drivability, all out power and perfect transitions. Granted I usually only have limited time to tune each one. I just find some newer ECMs easier to tune, mostly due to more information being sent down the ALDL and that it is much quicker (160 baud vs 8192 baud).

I haven't use the Dynamic EFI EBL, but I would look into that if you want to stick with the '7747. Looks to have much better tunability over a stock '7747, with more features. http://dynamicefi.com/

If you wanted to look at a different ECM, I would look at the 16197427 ECM, from the '93 to '95 GM trucks. Lots of features and can run electronic trannies as well. I am using one of these ECMs in my Grandfather '71 Chev pick, currently it has a TH350, but there is a 4L60E sitting in the garage to go in it in the spring.

I use Tuner Pro RT for my tuning.

JeepYJv8

Thanks your your replys!.

For tuner pro im using 42Hiway.xdf and sometimes 7747.mine

I particular thing is bothering me and maybe some of you can help. ok here goes

notes:
1. coolant shutdown thres is set to 111c or 231.8
2. Rad was completely covered in mud along with the engine compartment
3. there are 2 coolant sensors. i located in the water neck (stock location) and it feeds the ECM. The other feeds a guage on my dash but is located in the water pump. ( it was my only available place)
4. coolant is 50/50 mix florida temps
5. spraying 125 shot

I was at a mud drag race at palm beach international raceway last weekend. After winning i was so excited/maybe buzzed i let a friend drive it through at the end of the nite. he was on the line for awhile waiting for people to leave. Once we got clearance it was running about 230 on the autometer guage. (which i expect to run hotter being the sender in the water pump outlet) he then took off was spraying n20 the whole time. he got stuck at the end it was overheated and boiling over ( pretty bad ) you will see that in the vid, but trust me the camera stopped early!! i ve attached video. Is it possible the N20 cooled the engine enough to allow it to not shut off? and once he got stuck at the end of the track it quickly heated back up and boiled ? it needed to be turned off with key??!
if the link dont work just search u tube for PBIR MUD drag 10/23/2010 there are a few on there.

thanks in advance, this ones bugging me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvg8jYm_88A

JeepYJv8

Thanks for your information, and keeping my tbi support! i put so much time and money getting that engine in a jeep, the idea of pulling it out kills me.. i did notice im running tuner pro ver 4.14. you mention V5. maybe theres still hope! its hard tuning i have offroad only tires and an uninsured offroad only vehical. so data logging is not easy. if i put the factory wheels on it, then logged, do you think my tune will be way off with much smaller lighter tires? i will do that if it will work. thanks again!

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The shutdown temperature is not a engine safety shutoff. It is the engine coolant temperature from the last time the key was turned-off.

The items you listed in your first post of this thread is why the EBL Flash exists. Having done a '7747 TBI from carb conversion on a modified vehicle did not result in what I expected. So I re-wrote the ECM code and designed/built a high speed data logging board.

The difference between the stock GM TBI code and the EBL Flash code is night and day. You can also run your N2O system from the ECM, integrated.

RBob.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, in light of the new information, the EBL seems to be the way to go.

xch3no2

I would suggest that you stick w/v4 till the guys who have been doing this a few years (like shooter) give the v5 beta a through wringing out (debugging) & Mark releases it for the rest us dummies foolproof.

Understand the depth of talent (Mansur, RBob, Moates & others) that has brought this tuning ability to us. Without witch I wouldn't be pushing my Rat now well over 450hp w/tbi.

I am happily using v4 to edit bins for my EBL & monitor, log & edit a growing number of other ppl's OBD systems.

IOW TP v5 isn't the answer I would suggest, the EBL, its amazing software and using TP v4 to it's full potential are.

JeepYJv8

i wish i wouldve read your post yesterday. I downloaded v5 and well im in trouble. I havent tuned in about 6 months,so i was completly confused. i still cant get it to log using ver5 after hours of trying. i also burnt a chip and plugged it in backwards. cooked it, in about 5 sec. ECm seems ok though. I also stack my bins using 27sf512 chip using g2x adapter w/ remote for hardware. and im confused there again. tune size,chip size, and block size. i thought the chip was 512 kb but if i remember corectly something needed to change there. one more weird thing is my tunes used to be 4kb asdu i think 1227747. now there 16kb? i really need to invest in robs ebl. its just i have so much $ tied up into what i got. and it looks like his ebl still uses tuner pro, so i may end up in the same position.. im usually pretty smart with this stuff, but ive met my match. also i was on moated trying to dl some tunes, there isnt a download link anymore it just opens on a web page, do i just copy and paste into a file? i dont remember if it was always like that

i like robs unit has outputs for my lm1 and some other sensors, and N20 control. i dont think id be able to switch between the diffent tunes with his set-up but i could be wrong? its important i get to switch, since the vehical is multi use. when im trail riding i'd like the best fuel eco possible, in the mud drags i will be spraying n20 and want all out power. his rev limiter would be really really nice!! and the n20 control. ive won the last 4 races in a row, but its taking a beating. lots to think about, thanks for your opinions!

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Personally I find V5 easier to use than V4, mostly because the GUI is much nicer. I sometimes prefer the way the constants and tables tree is split up on V4 though...

Anyway...
If you're stacking bins, they will keep adding up in size.

Personally I never stack, since I'm only ever running one tune on a chip.

Once I get to the point where I want to switch between two tunes ( I already have the switcher) I'll start stacking..

So if you have stacked 4 bins that are 4KB is size this will make them 16kb over all.

To download from moates fileman, you may have to right click and "Save target as..." Some browsers or systems like to open each file a text document for some reason.

Just take a few breathes and we can help you figure all of this out.

Just start with the basics, loading a single bin, and programming that to an EEPROM. You will have to set the offset correctly.

If you are using a BURN1 or BURN2 TP RT will automatically set the offset for you when you load the bin to the buffer, which makes things REALLY easy, almost too easy. lol

Then stacking bins, etc.

Sometimes we need to take a step back, to take two steps forward.

JeepYJv8

[quote=Six_Shooter;4722073]Personally I find V5 easier to use than V4, mostly because the GUI is much nicer. I sometimes prefer the way the constants and tables tree is split up on V4 though...

Anyway...
If you're stacking bins, they will keep adding up in size.

Personally I never stack, since I'm only ever running one tune on a chip.

Once I get to the point where I want to switch between two tunes ( I already have the switcher) I'll start stacking..

So if you have stacked 4 bins that are 4KB is size this will make them 16kb over all.

It is a single bin saved at 16kb. not sure but i must have done something. im taking your advice and taking a few steps back!. the info you just provided helped, i also think i figured out the data logging problem. thanks for your help! ill try it out again tomorrow. i reverted back to a tune thats 4kb still and didnt really loose much tuned info. my next task is to figure out how to get my WB to show on the log or HUD display. i have a document that that says "open the ecu for your ECm, open bin file to edit, open 15??? battery volts and change from 0040 to 00a3? im a bit messed up there. i also remember showing sa under promid maybe?

im seeing some of the v5 features are really nice! more refined, more options! thanks again.

PS i am using burn 2.

xch3no2

Ya Imma gonna have to sack up here soon & try v5.
Been using v4 for just over a year & the thought of things not workin like usual makes me twitch a little (us old folk can be like that).

I guess what I should be concerned with, is if v5 works w/EBL files?

It would be cool to do some gauges like logworks does.

YJ, the EBL has EIGHT banks you can switch on the fly!!

I like the 7747-$42 masks & .ecu files on diyEFI (GM section) best so far.

Just "save page as" from your browsers "file" menu on Moates,
least that's how I do w/firefox.

MikeT 88IROC350

I started with TunerCat long time ago, still have it, but now mostly use TP RT.
IMO, TC does cost some $$, but is easier to use. They will support it, give updates on request. And if you find something you need in the def, they will add it for you.

TP RT, (i am using ver5) is very powerfull, lots of features, adjustable but harder to use. You really have to know what you are doing. I am lucky that I am using the $6E definition, which is what it was orginally designed for. So it is likely the most refined definition of all. Well worth the donation fee.

I actually still use both editors. One can be means of checking and confirming changes from each.

xch3no2

Well I gotta say now I sure don't hate v5...pretty cool.

Still glad that v4 was & still is available.