sleeper84

iTrader: (1)

A friend of mine is a Ford man. In building his F150 trail truck I managed to introduce him to the light of GM HEI and Quadrajets. His F250 recently blew out a spark plug and he's planning on swapping head out on it. It's a 88 model and the factory EFI leaves much to be desired as far as performance and fuel economy is concerned. It is also near impossible to tune for custom applications.

I was wondering what year computer/harness you guys would recommend using to build a GM system to setup in his truck? He's wanting to go up a few points in compression, use better flowing heads he's already picked up for it and use a custom ground full roller cam to get the most out of this thing. Thanks for any advice you guys can give!

Grants89iroc-z

can you even put a tpi system on that engine!?

sleeper84

iTrader: (1)

I don't see why not? I'm just piggy backing the GM controls on his existing multi-port EFI unit. I guess worded it weird. What I'm wanting to do is put the GM fuel injection computer in charge of his existing EFI setup. I know I'll have to change sensors to GM compatible ones and equip his distributor with GM ignition components, but I don't see that posing that much of an issue. In the end you are still just igniting fuel under pressure with electricity...

I just need to know what computer would lend itself to this kind of installation.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

It can be done, I have a GM ECM running my Nissan 2.8L I6.

I would look at using a '7730 ECM, and probably AUJP as a bin, maybe even S_AUJP, which has a few extra features added by a few members of this very community.

You will likely need to change a few sensors, such as the CTS, and IAT/MAT. The TPS will be alright. A friend of mine who has a 409 with custom EFI that he and I assembled, is using a Ford TB and runs fine with S_AUJP.
You will need to use a GM ICM (ignition control module), to trigger the ECM with correct RPM (DRP) signals and allow the ECM to control spark timing. You should be able to use the Ford dizzy and connect to the magnetic trigger inside the ECM, remove the Ford ICM from the picture. This is how I had my Nissan engine running when I first got the EFI on it. I have since swapped to DIS.
The connections of the GM ICM are easy and straight forward. two connections to the reluctor inside the dizzy, 4 connections to the ECM, one to ignition and one to the negitive side of the coil.

If you want an under hood mount ECM, look at the '7727, it's basically a '7730 in a weather resistant case.

Grants89iroc-z

ohh, so your NOT putting the tpi intake on that engine?
i mis-read that then lol

???

iTrader: (5)

sounds like a good idea to me..


the dizzy would be the hardest part i would think. you could always fab up a crank wheel and sensor mount and run coil pack, not having to deal with dizzy modding and just leave the stock one there to run the oil pump.

???

iTrader: (5)

oh and it may be worth your time to e mail this question about using the EBL on it. since you don't have anything already, you may come out ahead money wise and he should be able to walk you thru the dizzy mods.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

"Dizzy mod" is VERY easy. The Ford dizzy uses a magnetic reluctor very much like the GM dizzy, so interfacing a GM ICM to the Ford dizzy is easy. Same way I did it with my Nissan engine, only I had to swap to a newer dizzy than what came with my car, the Ford dizzy in question, will already have the correct parts.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

i don't know a lot about tuning the ford ecms, but they can be tuned.
they also have one advantage over the older GM ecms, sequentially fired injectors.
some people say it helps with emissions and can help with fuel mileage.
to me, this is the biggest advantage. when activated, the ECM can run a cylinder drop test by shutting off each injector.

sleeper84

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for all the good input guys! All this is in the research stages right now. I had done quite a bit of studying and reading on PROM tuning over a year ago, but at the time was a student and could not afford it. I've got to start re-reading all the info and was going to start by modifying my 89 TBI RS to squeeze a little mileage and HP out of it. Then my Dad's 86 IROC CCC needs a little work to bring it up to standards.

I'll record this info for when (if) we do the swap, I just wanted to see what you guys thought about it. My friend who owns the truck is a little flip/flopish on stuff. Took him almost a month to make a solid decision on running roller rockers on his F150 or not... Anyways, thanks again guys! If we do the swap I'll try to do a write up on it!

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I have seen a GM TBI on a 302 in a Ford Bronco... I have also seen it on a 318 Mopar... It is possible.

http://www.affordable-fuel-injection...on=show_detail

w/t1500

Ford dist with GM module picture

Sylvain

sleeper84

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the diagram! That'll save me ALOT of time studying service manuals.

hectorsn

Easily doable just like has already been mentioned. Use GM sensors, TPS not necessary as ferd one is fine. 730 inside truck or 727 underhood. We did this on a friends truck years ago, 727 for a 360 mopar. We used an ICM heat sink from a S10 truck I think since normally the dizzy serves as heat sink. Only caveat I see is the IAC. GM is stepper motor while ferd is pulse-width modulation(mopar is stepper motor like GM). I made a holley carb into a TB for my car by using the IAC and plate that attaches to the TB on an old 2.8L 60* V6 and mating the two. I drilled a hole into the IAC plate for a barb fitting and ran a hose to the manifold for vaccuum. Ugly, but cheap and it works!

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Good call on the IAC...

IIRC Holley makes an adaptor to fit on "Mustang" style TBs that will take a GM IAC. My friend made one himself, he was working as a machinist at the time.

sleeper84

iTrader: (1)

Ok, I think I can get the piece made for the IAC. The machinists at work are pretty good at making things for you. I can probably modify the stock mounting location with an adapter plate, having the GM IAC in it. Possibly put a spacer between the "goose neck" and the intake if worse comes to worse.

sleeper84

iTrader: (1)

Will I have to re-size the injectors because of this? I would think using smaller injectors would be required to run a batch fire than sequential fired.

???

iTrader: (5)

long time ago a buddly of mine had gen 6 accel dfi on a 5.0 and it used a gm type of iac so they had a little adaptop plate that come with it. might just search for that, and save time and effort. it was a clean little part that bolted to the stock intake and screwed in the iac

sleeper84

iTrader: (1)

If it will work on the 7.5L manifold, that's cool. The 7.5L uses a totally different manifold design than the 5.0L does. The 7.5L looks like just a 4bbl manifold with a tall "goose neck" on it, holding the throttle bodies about 4" or so above the intake. May use the same IAC motor though, so I will look into it.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

i just noticed in my previous post i left out some information.
where i said "when activated, the ECM can run a cylinder drop test by shutting off each injector."
it should read "when activated, the FORD ECM can run a cylinder drop test by shutting off each injector"


as long as the injectors you have are the right size, you shouldn't need to change them.

sequential fire vs batch fire is only firing each individual injector at a certain time vs all the injectors at once.
many sequential systems will switch to batch fire mode under certain conditions.

Uglybronco

iTrader: (2)

How about doing this the other way around, using a Ford computer on a GM engine. Its been a while since I've looked into the specifics of them but it seems like I remember the Ford ECMs having more processor speed & adapting to changes in the engine better. I remember there being a really good tuning program available that was easy to use & worked really good.

I'd like to try it because I have an extra computer & a bunch of extra parts from trying to convert my Bronco to FI.
Does anyone know what it would take to make it read a GM dizzy & what else would or would not work about it?
I think I understand the basic workings of FI systems, just not the real in depth crazy stuff so if anyone else has dual knowledge of both systems I'd love to hear what you think.

hectorsn

Well this being a gm based website, you may not get many people with experience on ferds and/or that would recommend the ferd ECM. Personally, if its an opinion you are looking for, you may never get two that are alike. If its facts that you are looking for then you have a wealth of information on this site on GM ecm's and using the search feature will bring it all to you. Now just find a ferd related website and do the same and you can come to a more educated decision. Now if you want my personal biased opinion, go with the gm ecm. In a previous life I was a professional auto mechanic. Not biased opinion here but I remember replacing lots of ferd ecm related components (tps, cts, map, etc) and even ecm's. The gm cars, hardly ever other than cts and o2 sensors. Both had even amount of failures with the ignition components, like pick up coil, module, ignition coil, etc. Biased opinion here but I thought the gm ignition stuff was easier to diagnose. One other thing, the gm style of idle control I never had issues with. The ferd IAC stuff was always giving problems. All of these observations are on stock cars so take it for what its worth. Also, there is just so much more information on the gm OBDI stuff and so many options (and cheap too) that why would you want anything else to run your engine, gm or otherwise? As far as the ferd ecm being more advanced or being more capable of adapting, thats not been my experience. Maybe you mean that it was capable of doing sequential injection, then thats true. However, for my money, SEFI is way overrated.