Originally Posted by dr.fiero

When I use my Romulator II, I just hang the end 4 pins off the 28 pin socket. To save buggering up the header on the Romulator itself (hanging the pins was bending the 2 that bumped into the socket) I just took a regular 32 pin PC mount socket, yanked off the last 4 pins, then stuck the header into that.

Now if I kill pins, I can just replace the 50 cent socket.

Originally Posted by dr.fiero

Well, at one point I was simply using 2732's.

But with the Romulator - I've never really cooked another actual chip!

I guess if I wanted too, I could take whatever the latest BIN I had, and cook it. Save having the Romulator hanging off my ECM just for tidiness sake. Wasn't really a concern for me though. I just shoved it all up under the dash.

In my current rig, I've got one of rbob's EBL's. So... again... no more chips!


As for 'planned obsolescence' -- you really can't blame Moates. I mean, it's hard to get ANY old semi. I happen to have a small pile of 2732's, and I grab whatever ones I stumble across. It's not Transtronics (guys that make my burner) fault that nobody makes them anymore!

Originally Posted by Cdeez

I think I might be best off to just save up some dough and buy a Megasquirt DIY kit.

Originally Posted by Ronny

Any experience with Holley Commander 950?

Originally Posted by Six_Shooter

OEM GM EFI > MS

I've looked at the MS all the way from the first inception that had no ignition control to the latest and even some future planned items for MS, they just don't have the features that the OEM GM ECM has, like VSS input to control different parameters, which is especially important with an auto tranny eqipped vehicle.

I've read about so many people that have been left stranded due to the MS losing the files, and needing a complete from the start re-flash. I've never heard of this with the OEM GM ECM and have never experianced a problem with the OEM GM ECM itself.

BTW I installed a GM ECM on my 1973 Datsun 240Z, when most people are going MS, because I like how the OEM GM ECM functions and the features it has.

Yes, the tuning interface can be a bit more difficult to use, but there are a few options avaialble for it. None of these intefaces have made my computer lag, where as one of the latest Mega Squirt interfaces did, so I decided it still was not the system for me.

If the EEPROM is really the reason you're going to go away from using the GM ECM, then you'll be greatly disapointed with the MS, when you need to add a bunch of different and flakey circuits to the MS to do half of what the OEM GM ECM does.

Originally Posted by Six_Shooter

OEM GM EFI > MS

Originally Posted by Cdeez

As far as I understand it, the MS is way more adaptable than any OBDI GM ECM could be (in stock form of course). THere is also likely a way to incorporate your VSS, though I'm not entirely positive and I certainly do not consider myself the final authority on the subject matter. (I lost my VSS when I dumped my 700R4 for the T56, The T56 uses a diff reluctor wheel than the 700 so the speedo would be off.)

Originally Posted by Six_Shooter

No, the VSS is not adaptable, nor are there any, tables that would make use of the VSS. No one seems to care about vehicle speed. It seems that people assume that this is about engine control, when really it's about vehicle control. The rolling resistance, and aerodynamic drag are factors in how a vehicle perfomrs, along with coming back to a stop, for DFCO, and a few other variables that could be better utilized with the input of a VSS.





It's not like I've been told this in passing by a friend's, brother's, dog walker's nephew, that these have failed, I have done quite a bit of reading on teh subject of MS, on quite a few different forums, once that both support the MS and forums that don't. I don't repeat hear-say, I repeat fact that I have either experianced myself or have heard from reliable sources on the matter.



While yes it's a bit about opinion, the only thing that MS has over the OEM GM EMS is the ease of adaptability to different vehciles. In just about every other way it falls short though.

I personally have a '7749 running a 1981 or 1982 (as best as I can narrow down by casting numbers) 2.8L Nissan I6 in my 1973 Datsun 240Z, and it runs fine, I have real time tuning, vehicle speed input, fan control, among a LOT of other variables, included WBO2 closed loop operation, even though I run it in open loop currently.

A guy I know has a 1956 Land Rover, with a late model Toyota I4 (sorry I don't know anymore details on the engine than that) also running a GM ECM, updated version of the '7727.

A friend of mine has a '7730 running a 365 (smaller version of the 409) with a custom MPFI intake, in a 1967 Chevy truck.

The GM EFI is very adaptable to many different vehicles, not just GMs.

Later this year I will have a Corvette Cross-Fire induction on a 355 in my late uncles 1923 T-bucket replica, using GM EMS.
I will by next year if not sooner have that same cross-fire induction moved over to my Gradfather's 1970 Chev pick-up, and then have the mechanical injection manifold for the T-bucket then converted to EFI and run a '7730 or '7749 on it.

As I said, I've looked at the MS repeatedly over the years to maybe use on the next project, and then the next one and then the next one, but the GM EMS always seems to have something the MS doesn't or offers for a cheaper price.

BTW the "in stock form" statement doesn't make sense, since this entire forum is about modifying the OEM GM EMS.

Originally Posted by Jaysz28

Here was my answer... best thing I've done to date for tuning

http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...roducts_id=131

-jason

Originally Posted by Cdeez

Jason,

tell me more about this please. I have done some reading on Moates' website but I want to get as much info as possible.

Also, do you think that would work with a 7747 ECM???

On Moates' site it says it's a bit like emulation, I'm not clear on that, is it emulation or not???



-Chase

Originally Posted by Six_Shooter

The NVSRAM is only a "bit like emulation" because the vehcile needs to be not running to upload a bin. It saves the need to burn EEPROMs to tune, but doesn't give the ability to have real time emulation.

Originally Posted by junkcltr

The whole "bit like emulation" is BS. It is exactly like emulation. I questioned that line before and he blew it off. For anyone running the 730 using the NVSRAM it is exactly like emulation. Much better than the old and maybe new emulators. The NVSRAM will not throw a check engine light like the emulators will when they mess up sometimes.
The NVSRAM does updates with the engine running.

As for the 27SF512 being obsolete. I wouldn't be surprised if the people with the G-whatever adapters have to buy something new with 32 pins.

Originally Posted by Six_Shooter

The old description on moates.net and information on here indicated that uploading the bin while the engine was running could potentially cause problems that it was was best to upload the bin while the engine was off. Maybe it's just that the entire bin needs to be uploaded not just bits and pieces, and if that is the case it's only a "bit like emulation", since "emulation" doesn't require uploading the entire bin. Emulation also follows and makes changes as you do. If I make a change to my VE table while emulating, the change is automatically uploaded to my Ostrich while emulating, I don't need to manually upload the changes, or the entire bin, so it really does appear that the use of the NVSRAM is only a "bit like emulation".
Using my Ostrich 2.0, while emulating is as described "bumpless", the vehicles run just fine, so, there is no problem with emulators.

I don't know where this SST27SF512 is dieing out idea has come from, I can still buy them from a few a sources.

Originally Posted by Six_Shooter

I don't know where this SST27SF512 is dieing out idea has come from, I can still buy them from a few a sources.

Originally Posted by junkcltr

Yes, there is a lot of stock around.

Originally Posted by Cdeez

If you guys want to buy these chips at the ridiculous markup (Moates was $5 a chip last time I checked) BE MY GUEST.

When Mouser USED to stock them, they were less than a dollar a piece.

That's all I'm saying and ever have been, dying out in the sense that you can't get a decent wholesale price easily, you need to pay someone a markup of anywhere between 200-500% typically.

If I bought 50 chips from Moates @ $5 a piece it would be $250

If Mouser was still in that game the same quantity would have cost $36.50.

Originally Posted by Six_Shooter

FYI, I don't buy the m at $5/ea (anymore), I have found at least one other supplier, that I have bought from a couple times now, for less than $5/ea.

That being said....

Business is business, and mark-up is part of that game. Either pay the marked up price, or find another source, or another way of doing the same job.

In my books, just because you can no longer find something as cheap as you used to be able to, does not mean that the supply is drying up, just that there is more mark up now.


FYI #2, if you bought 50 EEPROMs from Moates it wouldn't be $250, there is a quanitity discount.