motohead

Are there any direct replacement proms that I can use that are 24 pin or is there some hack way I can get around using a 28 pin chip without buying an adapter? I really don't want to buy a uv eraser and would like to be rather quick with burning the prom.

90c350

Spend the 50$ and get the 28pin adapter from Moates.net and there burn1 Best way to go and not very pricey!! This way you can do all kinds of mods and you will beable to reburn your chip to compensate. Just my 2c's. This is what ive been doing for awhile now. My next step will be Dynamic EFI's Flash Ebl conversion. If you go this route, It will only take you a few seconds to reburn a chip. But you will have to make the adjustments first. WHat are your engine mods??

motohead

Well I don't have a firebird or camaro but I have a 1991 c1500 regular cab short bed truck with the 4.3 v6. I swapped the manual out for an automatic. I will be putting a cam in it along with a set of ported heads and an intake. but I need to take care of the transmission first.

Drac0nic

The stock chip is a 27C32 if I remember correctly, the plastic carrier on it you will have to pull the old one out of and transfer over. TBH, the adapter is probably the way to go. UVEPROMs are flaky junk from my experience (well used college lab gear so YMMV) take too long to erase, and the additional eraser expense covers the cost of the adapter pretty much.

90c350

It doesnt matter if you have a truck. All of this knowledge will work with them as well. I Have a 1990c1500 with a mild 350. The truck originally had a 305 and I learned to tune from there.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

When I first started tuning I used a 2732 chip and had an aquaintance solder in a 28 pin socket if i recall. i used the UV eraser. What a PITA.
Not sure what the cost is for the adapter and Burn 1 but you still need the aldl cable. EBL give you a flash programable ECU and so much more advanced. Plus the Learn features will create for you a new .bin while you datalog. If you can swing the $$$ it is the only choice. You might be able to move it to your next vehicle as well?

Bill usn-1

Here's a write up I did a while ago on another board.
I currently run this setup and a romulator setup in another vehicle with the moates adapter socket and one with just the socket replaced with a 28 pin socket.
They all work. Let me know if the pics don't work since they are blocked where I am right now. I just copied and pasted over.
HTH

OK, so I decided I didn't have enough to do so I wanted to see if I can work out a fairly simple way to make the conversion to an EEPROM without having to solder in a new socket in the ECM.

So here's what I'm doing.
Starting with a stock ECM...




Just remove the chip from the socket in the ECM.

And then remove the chip from the plastic carrier.
There is a very simple way to remove them once you learn.
I use my index or middle fingers to apply upward pressure from the bottom of the chip. This will unlock the legs out of the carrier. You must also use your fingertips to spread the carrier away from the legs at the same time you apply upward pressure. When you have the carrier spread, you can then release some pressure from the bottom of the chip and it should lower out of the carrier, or at least enough to reveal the legs. If they are not all released then you must do it again until they are all released at the same time.

One of the problems faced is the factory socket must use the plastic carrier on the chip so the pins stay in contact with each other.
The old chip is a 24 pin and the new one is 28 pins.
So you need to make room in the carrier to fit.

I used my die grinder and simply removed the end of the carrier under the notch.
You need to make the inside surface completely smooth.







Once it's smooth you can test fit the new chip.





I didn't have spare EEPROMs so I grabbed some of my 27C512 EPROMs to try.
These are like the stock chip but are 28pin and will hold more data.



The basics to make these chips work is fairly simple.
Looking at the above pic, pin 1 is on the top left and counts straight down to 14 then back up the right side ending at 28.
Below is a chip with the pins numbered. Chips can also identify pin 1 and you can see the notch.



What needs to be modified, (this may keep some people from performing this mod) is to connect pins 1, 2, 28, and 27 to pin 26. Simply put, connect the top 4 pins together then connect to pin 26.(3rd pin down on the right side)

To do this I simply stripped the insulation from a 2in piece of wire.
Then used just 1 strand of the wire to bridge the gap between the pins.
Then "carefully" used a pencil tip 30watt soldering iron to solder each pin.
Here's the $15 worth of tools needed from Radio Shack.

Bill usn-1

You can clip a paper spring clamp or tweezers to the pins to act as a heat sink.







Make sure you remove the excess wire from the backside of the pins when done.



The last mod needed is to shave the inner locating tab from the top of the socket. This allows the chip to set all the way in the socket.



I stuck the completed chip in my UV eraser and let it cook for a few minutes.
Then stuck it in my programmer and did a blank check.
All was good.
So I selected 27C512 and loaded up my bin.
It programmed fine but then I got a verify error when checking the bin load.

So I erased it again and selected a 2732 chip for the programmer. Hit program and it loaded up and verified fine.
Dropped it in my ECM in the Mini and it worked fine.

Bill usn-1

The next step is to modify a 27SF512 EEPROM that can be programmed by the simple Moates burn 1.

I ordered some from EBay when I started this project. I ordered a pack of 10 for less then $2.50 each.
Should give me a few to see how much heat from a soldering iron they will tolerate!!!
The modification is the same.
10- 27SF512 EEPROMs













Uploaded the chip into the programmer, erased the chip, then programmed it back.
Used the verify function to ensure the chip matches the file after programming.



Here's the Moates programmer next to my UV eraser and USTR Eprommer.

Bill usn-1

Note the legs on pin 2 and 27 will need to be bent outside the carrier(or clipped off short) for it to set in the ECM socket.
They can stay bent when installed in the programmer.










to be continued.........

Bill usn-1

OK I finally got over to the BX and logged on to real internet.
Looks like the pics all work.

Just to finish this out.
I currently run this set up on my 1275cc 4 cyl in the Italian version of a classic mini cooper(Innocenti 1001).

It is a V8 netres chip so the only real affect is the idle speed in limphome.

I am also running a 2.5 DIS system with the 7747 ECM.

The last thing I need to do is turn off the Async. It screws with my idle on occasion.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Wow, Bill, I haven't seen you around in a while.

I was actually trying to look for one of your writ-ups that you posted on another board, that had to do with modifying the 7747 ECM to accept the larger 28 pin EEPROMs, but haven't been able to find it. I had the link saved on my old Laptop that died. It wasn't the one above, it showed a ZIP, G2 adaptor and something else all stacked up. I believe it was a 4x4 board.

Good see you're still into this stuff.

Bill usn-1

thanks,
Uncle Sam has kept me busy.
Finished a tour in Sicily then came home to the US and deployed to the desert.

I have most of my stuff on the Binderbulletin.org Since I normally drive International Harvesters with GM TBI of course...when I can afford the gas!!
I still run the romulator set up in my scout. I just leave it hooked up all the time.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Yikes.........you have the upper address lines shorted together and told the programmer to burn a 512 chip. That means you are shorting out the programmer address lines when it tries to program the upper address blocks of the chip if the offset is set wrong using anything other than 0xF000. I wonder how long the programmer drivers will go before burning out if that happens.

You should bend those pins so that they do not make contact with the programmer.

*************************************************************************************************************************************************************
EDIT: To be more precise, you need to bend pins 1, 2, and 27. Leave pin 26 un-bent because that is your ECM Vcc connection to pin 28 of the SF512 chip. All the other shorted address lines (pins 1,2,27) need to be bent because you are shorting out the programmer address lines. Note that you will still be shorting Vcc of the programmer to pin 26 (address line A13) if you don't use the offset feature and do bin stacking instead. If you program using the offset feature then the programmer will set A13 high which is the same as it is being pulled to so the programmer will not be shorted.
Overall, bend pins 1, 2, 27. Always use the programmer offset function when programming. All will be fine if that is done.

You could also de-solder the 24 pin socket on the ECM and install a 28 pin socket with the pin modification described above. This would allow a regular SF512 chip to be used.

Bill usn-1

Thanks for the tip.
I have plenty of chips to play with so I will build a few more and clip some pins. (When I get back from the desert)
Your explanation explains why the standard 512 programmed fine with 2732 settings.
As I stated, I already run a Moates adapter and socket in another ECM and a 28 pin socket with romulator in another.
I just put this together as a quick and easy way to use an eeprom in the stock socket and holder.

motohead

Wow this is exactly what I was looking for. I just got my socket and two chips in the mail today so I think I will start on this Saturday. I might have one issue though - I have a 16144288 how hard is it to make a definition file or should I just buy one from tuner cat? I just need to change my transmission settings I went from a manual to automatic (700r4). It would be nice to see if I could get a little more out of the engine while I'm at it.

Dominic Sorresso

As an FYI, I have several 2732A chips that I used on my old 7747 before converting to EBL and Ostrich. Be glad to sell them for a $1.50 each.
surrexi2@comcast.net

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

I finally picked up a UV eraser, the price had dropped ALOT since I last checked. I got mine for $22 shipped. I'de presonally rather deal with UV erasing than soldering on the EEproms but that's just me.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

You don't need to solder directly to the E/EPROMs.

Moates sells a G2 adaptor for using the larger 28 pin E/EPROMs in place of the 2732, or you can make your own adaptor from a 28 pin socket, like I've done a couple times. I actually need to make another one, I have a '148 that needs to be used on a Turbo Regal I'll be tuning soon.

motohead

Well I went ahead and made an adapter for the ecm instead of just soldering the pins on the chip. and I cant seem to get the prom to burn correctly. I'm using a willem programmer, do I need to set an offset or should the image just burn to the chip?

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Yes, you need to set the offset.

For a 4K bin on a 512 chip, the start address needs to be F000.

Drac0nic

Wow, way cool idea should save some bank. You can solder the EEPROMs up quicker than you can warm the soldering iron up!