kickass92z

I am having a heck of a time with my car. I ordered a chip from PCMforless and it is way off. I have gone through everything and it has to be the tune. Where can I learn about tuning, and what all the terms are. I here all this stuff and have read alot on here but it is all greek. Where to buy all the stuff, chips, burning station, software. And what kind to buy, I have read about alot of different things. I don't want to go into bussiness I just want to be able to take care of my car and not be at other peoples mercy....

malcom2073

There are a couple different ways to go.

One way is to buy a burner/reader combo, read your stock chip.. burn it to a new PROM and start tuning little by little that way learning as you go, reburning the chip each time you make a change.

You can also go the emulation route, on which you read from the stock chip and "burn" it to an emulator like the Ostrich 2.0 or Autoprom from moates. This will allow you to make changes on the fly, no re-burning required, and no chip changes after the initial installation of the emulator.

Buying a chip pre-done by someone who has never even seen your car much less know how it runs is a bad idea, I'd say take it out and put the stock chip back in to avoid damaging your engine, as a bad tune can be very harmful.

Edit for links:
Autoprom emulator/burner/reader all in one solution for tuning (minus chip adapter/ZIF if you need it):
This is essentially the Ostrich 2.0, Flash-n-burn, and xtremeALDL all combined (In operation not the same products) into one product.
http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=54

Ostrich 2.0 emulator. This can emulate a chip, letting you tune realtime.
http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...roducts_id=169

Flash-n-Burn, this is for reading/writing your own chips (The autoprom can do this too):
http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=48

Datalogging:
XTREME-ALDL: This is an ALDL cable for datalogging via your ALDL port.
http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...roducts_id=127


If you have any questions, just ask.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Do yourself a favour and use real time emulation, it cuts tuning time down by quite a bit, some people say in half, I think it's closer to an 8th of the time it would take to datalog, make changes to a bin burn to a chip, drive, datalog, repeat, rinse, re-use. I gues the time reduction would also depend on just how far out the original tune is.

I use mostly Moates.net equipment, Ostrich 2.0, ALDU1 (ALDL Extreme), EEPROMs, G1 adaptors, Socket Booster, HDR1, and some other stuff. I use a Willems USB (GQ-3X) programmer for reading and burning EEPROMs.
I have used a home made serial ALDL cable (MAX232 based), and worked well, even with a USB to serial adaptor, I bought the Moates cable, because I was having problems connecting to the ECM for a bit, and thought it was the cable, turned out to be laptop settings.

Others have used and still use other products, like the Pocket Programmer, and other EPROM emulations equipment, I can't comment on them, but I am happy with what I use.

Here is some information posted on moates.net:

http://www.moates.net/documentation....entation_id=72

For software I use Tuner Pro RT and Scanner Pro.
I have used WinALDL briefly to check connectivity to the ECM, but haven't used it beyond that.
Mark has a great program with Tuner Pro RT, and is user configurable, able to edit XDfs (masks), ALDL definitions, etc. Easy to use, with a lot of hidden features.

Have you tried running the stock MEMCAL? You're competly sure the new MEMCAL is installed correctly and you're not in limp mode?

kickass92z

This whole computer bussiness is new to me, I am not sure what mode I am running in. I don't have the stock chip, I bought an engine 3 years ago from a guy on here, he gave me the chip he burned and it worked great. I took it to a dyno and let a guy there look at it it was right on. But the guy who did the tuning there has since left. I am sorry to be so ignorent but what is alll this stuff

The car really runs good at idle, the boggs bad under acceleration. I thought at first it was the distrubitor, so I changed it. No good, then I changed the fuel injectors from the 36# to my old 24# and ran the chip from the other engine, much better but not good. That is how I came to the conclusion of the tune. I have no idea what any of the settings should be. Should I try to find a stock chip???

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Ostrich 2.0: http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...roducts_id=169

ALDU1(and CABL1 combo): http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...roducts_id=127

EEPROMs: http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=39

G1: http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=32

HDR1: http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=52

Socket Booster: http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...roducts_id=171

Shirt: http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=99

Programmer: http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/stor...idProduct=4225

You don't need all of that equipment, and some of it is only needed for certain applications. For instance, the Socket Booster is only needed when using the Ostrich 2.0 with a '7747 ECM.

Bare minimum is usually a programmer, (Willems or Moates' BURN1) an ALDL cable (Moates', ALDLcable.com, or home made) and a new EEPROM, and if you are using a '7730 or similar ECM a G1 adaptor. This would give you basic tuning abilities in hardware alone, and is the long way without using real time emulation.

You will still need the software to change the settings in the BIN file and to datalog, such as Tuner Pro RT.

I'm sure other's will have more suggestions on both hardware and software.

malcom2073

if they reprogrammed your current chip instead of getting you a new one what you might want to do is buy a blank chip and download stock binary, then burn it to the chip and start from there. There are a couple places to find them online I'm sure someone can post a link to one that will work for you. As for what all that stuff he said is, read the links he posted about each one, but I'll give a rundown here. Also use the search function for the forums to find more information.


Ostrich 2.0:
Emulator. Essentially this is a realtime programmable "chip". You plug this in to your ECU, and it allows you to change settings as you are driving (well, pulled off the side of the road) without having to re-burn a chip and put a new chip in. This is VERY nice for learning to program.

ALDU1 (ALDL Extreme):
This is a MUST have. This is a cable that connects to your ALDL port (the OBD1 diagnostic port under your dash). This allows you to hook up to a laptops USB port and datalog. Datalogging is the core of tuning, as you can see exactly what your car is doing.

EEPROMs:
These are the "chips" that run the computer. They are Electrically Erasable Programmable Read-Only Memory. Its a little black chip with alot of metal legs that makes your car run. The Ostrich 2.0 is a black box that "emulates" one of these, as in "pretends" to be one.

G1 adaptors:
This lets you use your stock memcal with an aftermarket chip or Ostrich 2.0 without breaking it apart to change the chip. search the forums for what a memcal does.

Willems USB (GQ-3X) programmer:
This is another chip programmer. This lets you take an EEPROM and put "code" on it to run your car. You then plug it into your ECU and run it.



I'll admit, alot of this stuff is overwhelming, but you really only need a couple things to start tuning.

kickass92z

Thank all of you very much!!! Will the programming be laid out where I will understand, such as air fuel and spark advance. I will admit I am very limited on my knowledge of computers. I have taken the first step, I bought a new laptop( needed it for work anyway) and an ALDL cable( used) The ostrich sounds like the way to go. I was at an f-body event a couple of years ago and there were a couple of people running these. I had no idea what they were at the time but it really sounds like the way to go.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Start by downloading Tuner Pro RT, a matching bin file to yours (you can check the broadcast code on your MEMCAL in your ECM and find the same bin on Moates' fileman folder, and the matching .xdf file to be able to see the information in the .bin, in a way that is easy to understand, and a proper .ads file so that you can datalog.

kickass92z

So Tuner Pro rt has a way to datalog?? What is .xdf file?? .bin?? .ads?? I know I am sounding dumb, but I am really wanting to do this right. I am thinking the ostrich will be the way I go. And I will be able to burn a chip just in case is this correct?? That is if I buy the entire set up from moates?? Again thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.
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Just thought of something else, I have a 730 ecm, but when I got the car it had a hypertech chip in it, and no factory?? Is there anything on the comp, that will help me find what I need.

drb930

Hi,

Have you looked into the Moates NVSRAM that was developed here on 3rd gen that allows you to "Flash" the ECU like the newer LT-4's?
After it is installed in your computer you do all the tuning through the ALDL connector.
You can search NVSRAM and there is a lot of information about it here.
I really like mine.

Dave

pandin

Also check out a Prominator. That is what I got. It loads through a parallel cable and you data log to the serial one. It takes about 10 secs to down load and verify a new bin. It will allow changes fast enough that you can forget to document what you did.

It will also hold 8 separate bins, so it is easy to flip the switch to compare bin A to any of the other 8.

With a regular burner there is erase and burn time (15 min?) and inserting the chip into the ECM each time a change is made. At 200 avg burns for newbie tuning, that is a bunch of unplug, erase, burn, verify, and replug.

DM91RS

Sounds about like the Ostrich. I love just plugging in a usb cable.......

JackL

I am as cheap as they get...check my $42 tuner thread, but I am most likely going to spring for the Ostrich 2.0 unless I find something seriously cheaper.
I also have about 150 blank 27c256's and still think RT emulation is the way to go.

kickass92z

I am ordering my stuff on friday. I am going to call Moates before I decide what to go with. Thanks for all the help, I am sure I will be needing alot more...

MuttlyTheWetDog

i used the willem burner very happy with it $19 on e-bay from china and i made my own aldl cable for free with parts scavanged from circut boards that i had laying around work or the parts are like $5 at mouser.com and abought 30min of soldering
i got my chip adapter, chips and zif socket from moates
kinda confusing at first with the offsets but i have burned abought 50 chips with it only 1 that ended up bad and all i had to do was reprogram it

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Emulation is nice but has its drawbacks. I tend to keep making changes and then forget where I came from. Very easy to get out of whack in one afternoon. BTDT many times.
Burning a chip can help beginners track where they are going and where they have been. Does have a bit more time involved but helps keep revision history. The way I've been doing it is using the G3 switcher from Moates that can hold 16 programs at once and burning a chip with 1 or 2 things changed ranging from low to high so I can select as I drive. I'm not good at driving and looking at the laptop and tune by myself 99% of the time. It also give me a fallback instantly if I changed something too aggressivly. Just switch back to the previous program.

If you are good at note taking it will help allot.
Start with the stock binary (Program) and modify from there.
Write down values that helped (and those that don't) with high and low limits and what you saw happen. With those notes, as you tune, will become important to you later in the process and are extremely helpful when you just start over from scratch. That will happen several times, its just the way it goes.
Break the notes down on separate pages for IDLE, Accelleration Enrichment, Power Enrichment, Cruise, TCC lockup points, Spark Advance, etc so you can stay organized and find things easily.
Good luck and read till your eyes hurt in the Tuning Guide above.