Gary Anderson

iTrader: (2)

Started to play around with Super AUJP v4 this weekend and am having issues with idle speed. The IAC seems to want to stay at whatever value is used at L865E or L866A. It does not move to control idle speed at all. I am running a manual trans and have the flag set properly, (at least I think it is). Is there some other bit that needs to be selected that I may have missed.

I have L8991 set to 800 rpm, L8992 set to 1200 rpm and L8993 set to 1100 rpm. Does that seem alright. Thanks.

Gary Anderson

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

L8991 is the original "hard coded" maximum idle speed.
This needs to be set about 150 greater than the idle speed desired.
I'm set at 1000 RPM with idle at 850 RPM.

L8992 and 8993 are the Open loop idle settings.
You shouldn't need to use it if you are running a stock cam and heads. Radical setups can nicer if run in OL due to overlap causing the o2 sensor to read lean and add fuel when actually the motor is running rich.

Set the OL idle setings lower than your actual idle speed to disable it.

Gary Anderson

iTrader: (2)

This thing still idles at @1250 rpm. Anyone care to look at my bin and see what I'm missing?

silvernblack

I was going to compare it to my S_aujpv4 1024, but I can't seem to open the zip file? Can you post the bin file directly?

1tpi

Gary Anderson

iTrader: (2)

I renamed the bin to txt. Should be able to rename to .bin and open. WinZip will open the .zip file though. Hope this helps.

silvernblack

Well...there's major changes compared to my s_aujpv4 1024 BIN....and that's not counting the spark or ve tables which I have changed. I've only made other minor changes but your BIN has a whole lot of other stuff changed? did you do that? If not, then you may not have gotten a "clean" copy. You may want to go download it again....

silvernblack

Well...here are some of the differences between your bin and mine....not considering the spark advance nor ve tables....
there are also differences between 013B thru 06DE INCLUSIVE, and between 098E thru 0993 INCLUSIVE.
If you haven't made major changes, then I suspect that you didn't download a "clean" copy and you may want to try again.

the wideband difference would be expected if you don't have a wb; and keep in mind that version 1026 is different from version 1024 above a certain location, and that I've made a few changes to my BIN from the original BIN.

see this thread: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...4-1024-vs.html

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

• Your spark tables have a large jump from idle to off idle.

10* is a big jump from 800 to 1000 RPM and is also probably causing some grief.

• You have PE disabled until 75 Kpa MAP. This combined with the zero'd OL AFR coolant table and low AFR RPM table may just be the way you have it set for start of tuning.
• address 631 has zero in the IAC O/L offset (not sure what that does but all my files have the stock 1000 in there) I'm auto trans and it may be different on stick bins.
• address 647 Min TPS for IAC PID enable, you have zero. Could be your problem. Put the 0.78 in as the stock bin has and see if it calms down. This combined with the over/under speed gains set to zero (64B, 64C) I'm not real up on all the IAC parameters (especially for a manual) but these don't seem right.
• address 1EB You have the SA retard Vs RPM error zero'd out as well. Try putting those values back to control the idle speed.

Some things to investigate.

Gary Anderson

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the pointers. I'll check it out, but not likely until next weekend.

Gary Anderson

iTrader: (2)

Just some quick notes.

The PE stuff has been changed to allow idling in PE mode, sort of a version of open loop idle. I've been doing that off and on for a couple of years. My car has never idled consistently without surge when in closed loop. Not an issue with the current idle problem.

Address 631 has been set to 0 or 1000 in all my bins for a long time with no change in idle. Not sure what it really does, but doesn't make any difference in what I set it to.

Address 647, set to 0 or .78 and makes no difference. Still no idle speed control.

Address 64B and 64C, can set to 0 or .78 and makes no difference. Still no idle speed control. Incidentally the conversion formula for the two addresses is different in the XDF and should be the same.

Basically my problem is that the IAC stays at 0 steps and never moves with the Super AUJP v4 and works normally with any of my other bins. Still lost, any more thoughts?

Thanks,
Gary Anderson

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

I'm curious how exactly are you setting it up to do that?
I think you need some value in there other than zero so the idle routines can run instead of the "off idle" parameters interfering.

I'm thinking without a gain value, would the IAC move even if it was commanded by an RPM error value?
I'll check the XDF, thanks.
I'm guessing that the mechanical is just set too far open and the IAC is not needed to maintain the min rpm commanded.
Can you close it down and see steps added?
E-mail me your before and after bins and a quick log if you have one, I'd like to see the settings and what is happening.
Jp

Gary Anderson

iTrader: (2)

To idle in PE mode I set address 5FF to something less than idle MAP, @25KPA. Until about version AB or so Tunercat and the XDF's I have seen have this item defined incorrectly. Address 601 needs to be set to 0, and 603 and 604 need to be set to 0. The motor will then be in PE mode from 300-400 rpm, depending on whatever the bin is set for to determine engine running, up to 1200 rpm.

The drawback to this is all the cold start enrichment routines do not function. Since my car is a summertime, fair weather toy this isn't too big of a deal. PE % change to A/F ratio vs. coolant temp can crutch this to help with cold starts.

With address 647 set to .78 and 64B and 64C set to .78 the IAC stays at 0 steps even at cold start up. It's as if all IAC control is turned off.

With my other (non S_aujpv4) bins my car idles at 750 rpm with 5-10 IAC steps.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

TTT for ya

Gary Anderson

iTrader: (2)

Just a quick update. I haven't had much time to play lately as my mother has been in and out of the hospital some and my laptop also died just for grins.

I copied my VE stuff and spark tables and other necessary items to a bin that silvernblack sent me. The car runs good and IAC seems to work now, although it's different than I'm used to. It seems to require an input from the VSS to start the IAC process. If the car doesn't move the idle stays @1200 rpm with the accompanying number of IAC steps to maintain it (usually 35 to 40) even though the commanded idle speed shows 750 or 850 or whatever depending on engine temp. Once the car moves, either forward or reverse the idle will come down to the requested idle speed. Previously the idle speed would slowly come down as the engine warmed up without moving the car at all.

I also cannot get the shift lite to work with this bin, although that is small potatoes and like I said, I haven't had much time to play lately.

So that's the news and I should have more time to play in the near future. I've replaced my laptop and am going forward again. Hopefully I'll get some of these issues worked out. Thanks for your input. Any more ideas, please feel free to let'em rip.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Shift light works fine with my v4 manual set up BIN. If you want, slip me a copy of your current file and I'll compare it to mine and see where we're different. Change it to be a .txt file and email it to vernwalls@hotmail.com and I'll see what I can do. Might take a couple of days, but I'll compare them for ya.

Gary Anderson

iTrader: (2)

So, after much playing around and no success I reread the documentation for AUJPV4 and guess what?

6.) SHIFT light generic operation added (original code commented out) (Z69')
Use L8365 to set shift light on RPM/31.25 (7,969 RPM Maximum)
Use L8254 to set time out for shift light to go off if above setting for x # of seconds

Any idea why this was done? I thought the standard 8D shift lite function was actually quite good, adjustable for load and rpm. What's not to like?

Is Z69 still around? Any idea how to make the standard 8D shift lite function in AUJPV4?

silvernblack

I was reading the info below (stated earlier in this thread) and I started wondering if both locations should be set the same? Both of mine are set less than the "desired idle" but one is set at 350 rpm and the other at 500 rpm. Is that ok? I'm just trying to get my idle as smooth as possible.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

othey MUST be different.
If set the same you will go in/out of closed loop with no overlap.
Will cause some hunting to occurr.
Give the routine 100 to 150 RPM difference so the transitions are smooth.

The default settings of 350 and 500 make it disabled by default.
Closed loop is always active if yourt idle speed is greater than 500.

As far as the original shift light stuff...
The code that operates the TCC, shift light is very difficult to follow.
We were not sure of the adjustments needed to make changes to the stock shift points.
This was an easier route to make a generic shift light work.

pwdbychevy

I know this is an older post but I was messing with SAUJPV4 today and test drove the car and was having the same issue. The IAC parameters in this bin are setup for automatics. I have a manual trans so what I did was find a stock bin for a manual trans and copied everything that had to do with the IAC from the manual bin into the SAUJPV4 bin. I test drove the car again, problem solved.

silvernblack

What "all" it was that you copied over? I think that may help several of us....

pwdbychevy

There is a compare tool in TunerPro and make sure you have the t5 manual bin selected. Open up the item finder tool and type in IAC. All of the tables that have IAC in it will pop up in the list below. Double click each table and compare the SAUJPV4 fields with the T5 fields and if they don't match then copy the t5 values over to the SAUJPV4 field and save it, burn it and test it.

silvernblack

I can get it at Moates I gather....I'll go search around, but meanwhile, do you know the code? Thx.

Looks like it's AXXC or AXXD? Sound right?

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

By all means post the BCC of the bin you used.
I have been after someone to do this so it could be documented and notes added for new users.
I only have an auto so I had no way of confirming any settings.
Thanks,
JP

pwdbychevy

The bin I used can be downloaded from here http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28..._stock_32k.bin

silvernblack

Many thanks.......
Below are the 2 BINs I went and downloaded while I awaited a response. I copied the IAC stuff from AXXD into my AUJP_V4. Looks the same as the one mentioned above. If the weather isn't too crappy tomorrow I'll test it.
--------------------------------------
AXXD 3072
92Ztpi305T5.bin
Stock '92 Z28TPI305 w T5, 3.42, G92

AXXC 3067
92Ztpi305T5.bin
Stock '92 Z28TPI305 w T5, 3.08, G92

pwdbychevy

Let us know if this fixes your issues.

silvernblack

Well, finally got around to testing my IAC fix. Worked fairly well. I'm still tweaking the Manual Throttle position screw so that it all works together. Got my IAC steps at about 40....seems fairly steady there.
Took it for about a 40 mile ride; did a "momentary cutout" while cruising along the freeway...odd that. Other than that the only oddball thing is that it takes a while to reach idle speed after coming off a run....nevertheless it's a bit better than it was. Many thanks for the pointers.

pwdbychevy

Try lowering throttle follower slope gain to 150% to cure the idle speed off a run. I believe yours is set to 199%.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

Well I'll certainly try that tomorrow morning.....

haven't been able to nail that issue down yet

then it'll be back to battling the start up rpm flair.... again

-jason

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Startup flare is probably due to the "park position" settings.
Lowering them can reduce it but going to far and you'll need more air through the TB.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

ahhhh, another thing I can try.....

btw, dropped the TF gain to 39% and it still hangs a little bit until I come to a complete stop. It is better though! Hanging at 1000 vs 1500. Perhaps drop it even more??? I dunno... nothing wrong with trying it

I'm sure theres more to it in the TF tables too

now the darn idle needs to quit surging.... blah

like chasing my damn tail

-jason

pwdbychevy

I'm having the same problem with the surging idle. I think i figured out why it's doing it. A while back one of my proms went bad and the ECM went into limp home mode which means overly rich condition. The engine's idle was fluctuating bad in limp home mode. When I replaced the PROM things went back to normal. I was new to DIY PROM so I didn't think anything of it. After fiddling around with my open loop idle settings my engine idle started to surge between 1500rpms and 850rpms. I was looking at the afr at idle and it was fluctuating between 14.9 and 12.5 and figured my idle was too rich judging from my previous experience with the bad prom . Keep in mind I run in open loop constantly. I leaned out the lower tables where the engine idles at and VOILA no surging idle and AFR is at around 14.7-15.4. It seems that when my engine runs rich at idle it will fluctuate badly but when I lean it out the idle levels out. Laws of Physics? Maybe. Try leaning out your idle areas and it should cure that fluctuating idle.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

tried smoothing out the ve tables where it is surging, and its still doing it

I tried it on another car with a similar setup..... still the same surge

Going to try and eliminate the ECM as a culprit, since I am using an NVSRAM to do my tuning

-jason

pwdbychevy

Have you looked at the AFR while it's doing it?

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

Nope, haven't had a chance to throw a wbo2 on it

Will try to do that to one of the cars tomorrow

but judging by the nb02, fuel is ranging with the map load.... 30-50kpa

starts out stable too, then just deteriorates....

-jason

pwdbychevy

Mine did the same thing. Let me know on those AFR's

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

well got it figured out after a search on here

found two constants that a post referred too about adjusting the deadband to allow for a lumpier cam, wish I had saved the link.... it was a good read.

IAC Param, Idle RPM Deadband (drive) - Increased from 38 to 75
IAC Param, Idle RPM Deadband (Park/Neutral) - Increased from 38 to 75

These changes stopped the surging that both cars were experiencing. One car is auto, other T56. Both using SAUJPv4. Similar cams on a 112 lsa. I did increase the settings in increments of 5 to get to those numbers. Fueling and map are more stable too. Much happier with the driveability in stop/go traffic.

Next up is cruise/part throttle, which honestly isn't bad. Tad rich throughout most of the range. Going to the track tonight for fun with the auto car.

I hope this helps someone

-jason

pwdbychevy

I would've never guessed.

silvernblack

Well, I changed all of the above to the T-5 settings and it appears that all my idle surging issues are gone. I also changed the IAC keep alive learn param minimum temp to
65°C (~149°F). I made the TCC and Min temp changes at the same time, so I don't know what it was the stabilized the idle. Anyway, driving around today it all worked well and when I came off speed the idle would promptly settle down into the desired range...without the previously long delay that was occurring before.
Oh yeah, I also set the IAC throttle follower slope gain to 150% (from 199%).

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

This is all great info for the manual guys to gain from.
Thanks for posting up your results.

1tpi

Glad to see you fixed it.
Can someone explain what the two deadbands he changed, what do they
really do I guess I don't know what deadband means
Thanks

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

From what I found in my search, it slows the reaction of the IAC to help combat the lumpier cams... or something to that effect.

I should search for the post and put the link here so it makes more sense

-jason

1tpi

Yes, could you post the link
Thanks

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

Can't find the exact thread, but the last one in this post describes it pretty well

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...ve-rev-up.html

FWIW I was searching for idle stabilization ideas

-jason

1tpi

Thanks