Adrians91Z28

ok .. got my 91 camaro put back together 1300 miles ago ..

its a 305 tpi Speed density .. 5 speed manual .. 3.08 posi rear gears ..


i put on vortec heads (summit racing), comp 501 cam, aluminum flat top pistons (around stock c/r with bigger heads), hooker 2055 headers / y-pipe, flowmaster muffler, k&n air filters, taylor 8mm wires, all new sensors, etc

ive been driving it to college and back every day for the last three weeks and got almost 1300 miles on it so far ..

i must say it runs allright in traffic for now .. runs like $hit before it gets into closed loop (or is it open, get them mixed up) .. then when it warms up, the check engine light goes off and it runs fine and has a good bit of power ..

now when i stomp on it .. around 4800 rpm it seems like the computer figures something out and all hell brakes loose ...

so im assuming the computer needs some tweeking to get optimum power ..

oh, and im getting around 16-19 mpg depending on how heavy my foot is ..

all my tuning stuff gets here tommorow and ive downloaded tunerpro, and played around with it ..

where would be a good place to start

someone told me to look at aujp.bin .. theres a couple versions .. would this work for now

any suggestions would be appreciated ..

thanks..

pandin

At 4800 everything is balanced (a sweet spot). It has to do with CID, stroke, cam, intake, gears, arf, VE, PE, exhaust, and tranny.

Think of it like this, all your parts and tune are like stacking cards up into a tower. If the cards are all in the right place the tower will be tall, if not it will fall.

Go to the top and start reading stickies (important and useful).

MonteCarSlow

AUJP isn't some magical silver bullet - it is simply the final baseline for a 350 TPI. And besides that, it is a bin setup for automatic transmissions, so it is no good to you anyway.

Start by reading the stickies as already suggested. Then go find the vortec timing table (search), and copy that into your bin with about 2-3 degrees removed everywhere. Then start doing VE learns by data logging.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I'll ditto what MonteCarSlow posted. Timing tables from a vortec headed engine are a decent start. Depending upon how much cam the 501 is you may need to add some timing at the lower RPM range.

Then get the VE tables into shape. Everytime you drive to college and back data log. Then take that info and work on the VE tables. The better the VE tables are the better it will run in open loop. Closed loop will also thank you.

Then once the VE tables are decent you can go back to working on the timing. And ease into WOT. You are taking a chance romping on it before any WOT tuning has been done. Then work on the transistions (AE/DE) and back to the VE table and around.

RBob.

Adrians91Z28

awsome .. thanx for the help

UPS is bringing my stuff i bought from moates.net later today (very organized website, and fast deliver, i only ordered it sunday w/ ground shipping)

so maybe tonight if i got time i could do a little datalogging, then ill do what yall suggested and play around with a vortec timing table ..

im gonna search for how to mess with the ve tables, i read most of the stickies but didnt see much about that .. guess ill be reading tonight ..

the 501 cam is a little bigger than the stock cam, runs fine on the stock tune when its warmed up .. its got 212 / 218 duration @.050" .. 264 / 269 adv. dur. and like .488 / .490 lift

so i should get a vortec timing table, and subtract 3 degrees across the whole board?

am i getting that right, or did i miss something..

thanks again

pandin

Before changing anything in the tune (except the aldl spark adder) get a data log of where you are right now. look at the 4800 rpm spot and see where all 25 data points are at. Refer to these numbers as you are tuning. It is sweet for a reason (beginers luck?)

Do not forget to save for a wide band to tune the wot.

Adrians91Z28

ok .. got all my stuff ... looks really nice, alot better than i was expecting ..

ive been playing around with tunerpro, and installed the chip burner software and found a post about how to burn the .bin file to the right spot of the chip since the chip has more memory than the file

did a little research and found out how to tune the ve table ..

now my question is .. should i get a "stock" vortec timing table and put that it, or mess with the current one?

and where could i get a stock .bin file for my 91 camaro 305 tpi ... can i get it from datalogging or something?

hopefully tommorow im going to put in the adapter and burn my first chip, just making sure i understand everything so i do it right



EDIT:

does anyone have a correct vortec timing table i could use?

all the ones i could find that were posted had people arguing if they were correct or not ..

and if i use a vortec timing table, should i make any adjustments with it being a 305 tpi, cast iron vortec heads, comp cam, hooker headers, high flow intake, etc

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

I found this by searching:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...rtecspktbl.jpg
It may not be stock vortec SA table. Allegedly it is.

Adrians91Z28

i think that is the one i saw ..

so should i be safe getting a stock .bin file for my car .. then put in those spark values .. and set my injectors, and everything .. and then start datalogging and tweaking the ve table

or should i subtract or add some to that vortec table ..

thanks

liquidh8

I am running the vortec heads on my 350, I started with the vortec timing table just posted, and my engine liked more timing. I have more timing in the main table total, at the lower MAPs from like 2400 rpm up, the I have a total of 32d by 3200 rpm @ 95/100 MAP. Now I have been playing with the total WOT timing and I can't tell a difference between 31-34 degree, so I have been easing it down a little at a time. I can't make it to the track again for months, so I'm not getting to crazy, and moving timing round that little it futile unless you can get timed runs.

My advice is to start with the stock vortec table, it may like more timing at the lower maps, but be careful with the stick, to much and you'll start pinging. Only ease into the wot timing, hard to tune that without track runs. Run as little timing as needed for the best performance.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

MonteCarSlow says:

Start by reading the stickies as already suggested. Then go find the vortec timing table (search), and copy that into your bin with about 2-3 degrees removed everywhere. Then start doing VE learns by data logging.

I think that is a safe start. My engine knocked day one with a stock timing table(non vortec) at around 3000 rpms under load with 93 octane. I pulled 3deg where it knocked and it never reoccurred.

pandin

A stick shift and 3.08 rear gears puts more load on the the engine requiring less SA

scan for that code at start up cold. It needs to be fixed before moving on to anything else.

Adrians91Z28

the only code i get is for the egr solenoid ..

but i have vortec heads and the edelbrock tpi hi flow manifold .. so the egr is supposed to be routed externally .. but i havent done it yet ..

so i get that code when it is in open loop mode or when it is really cold outside .. i can tell b/c the "check" light comes on and it starts pulling fuel or timing like crazy .. kinda goes slower when i press the gas ..

did some datalogging earlier .. but it froze a couple times (brand new sony laptop) am i doing something wrong .. couldnt tell any difference between 10 ohm mode or 'open' on the aldl cable ..

got a couple minutes recorded but found it went into open loop

im using tunerpro rt for datalogging / getting used to all the things i can change ..

is there anything better for datalogging ..

did a little searching and found a stock .bin for my car .. so tommorow ill put in the vortec table and see if i can burn my first chip

im going to do a little searching on how to switch off the egr / air .. anyone know a quick / easy way to do it (with temp / tps% settings) .. also do i need any changes with my 185* thermostat ..

thanks again .. hopefully tommorow ill have my feet wet and have a happier car ..

Adrians91Z28

EDIT:

did a little comparing between my stock timing table and the vortec table ..

the vortec table has alot less timing than the stock one, did a little searching and found that vortec heads dont need as much timing as a stock f-body

something about the heads flow more air, and need more fuel, but not as much timing ..

might explain some of the "bucking" at low speeds

pandin

I do not have any experiance with the 91 code. But on mine you set the egr enable temp higher and/or zero out the egr table.

Better to do a search on map and disable egr. I only have the Maf system.

also check egr vacuum control lines, a cracked or broken one will lean afr when the egr is enabled.

on mine it only codes after driving 10 min with a 86 chip and never with a 88 ta chip. egr disconnected but still installed, lines plugged, and temp wire hooked up.

Adrians91Z28

allright .. ill do a search to disable egr .. i think i saw a sticky in "intro to tuning" for the 730' ecm ..

started "transferring" the vortec spark table over to my stock .bin file ..

looks like some vortec spark values are anywhere 1-5* lower than the stock 305 f-body tpi spark values ..

so tommorow i might yank the ecm and put in my adapter with my first chip ..

Adrians91Z28

got my gp1 chip adapter in .. and burned two chips ..

i disable egr / air on both .. put in 20.3 injector flow (19lb @ 46psi) ..

now one is with the vortec timing table .. and the other is my stock 91 tpi .bin (with the above changes)

tried both .. the vortec one idles alot smoother (no lope), but feels like i dont have as much power when driving ... and the stock one kinda feels the same ..

did a little datalogging earlier on the stock chip (in closed loop) and the blm / INT (what is the INT) are always going crazy .. ussually blm stays around 108-118 and the INT goes from 108 to 144

any ideas what i should do next .. should i keep the stock timing table and start tweaking the ve table .. or keep the vortec timing table (its 1* to 5* lower accross the whole table than stock)

pandin

start by getting the blm closer to 128.

(Sorry for the mistake it is now removed)

108 is at the limit

My car with 24# injectors with 23# injector constant stock chip runs rich.

Plugs black low mpg at lo speed 20mpg at 70 mph

cell 0 blm 150 idle

cell 1 blm 160 creep lo mph

cell 2 blm 128 30 mph

cell 10 blm 128 50 mph

hope this helps and sorry for the confusion.

Thanks rbob.

Adrians91Z28

i thought below 128 was rich .. and above was lean ..

b/c in the datalog its mainly running rich .. and its below 128 most of the time ..

is there a program like aldl for the 730' ecm .. b/c i really like the look of it, looks a whole lot easier to figure out the ve tables / knock

RBob

iTrader: (1)

You are correct. A BLM of 108 - 118 is removing fuel.

RBob.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

good post im subcribing