final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
02-04-2008 | 12:07 PM
#1
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From: Shippensburg, PA
Car: 1981 Buick Century Wagon
Engine: 87 GN engine
Transmission: 2004R
Axle/Gears: 3.73
who has the final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
Hey all. Been searching the threads since 0700 hrs today. I am finally playing around some more with my tune, continuing from where I left off before getting deployed to Iraq.
To the point: As in my sig, I have a 350, vortec head, bbc tb, 90pph injectors, VAFPR, 26psi @ WOT and EBL classic. I have the formula for figuring BPC for the injectors, consulted with RBob to compensate for the VAFPR. I am trying to figure out what to set the injector correction offset at.
Is there a general guidline? like 300 usec for 61 pph injectors, 400 for 75 pph, etc.
Did anyone devise a formula based on FP, injector size, engine size, spw @ idle, spw @ wot, etc?
A while back, I was trying to figure out why my low speed VE table han a dip in it in the lower MAP areas, Then I was reading some other posts and seen something about the injector correction offset. I have my VE tables close, but I am not spot on.
So what I have now is: idle, sPW is 1.4-1.7, MAP is 45-50 KPA, 18-20 gms/sec all @ 675/700 RPM
WOT sPW is 4.8-5.1, MAP is 98-100 KPA, 255 gms/sec. This is the same from 4700 rpm to 5800 rpm.
So I guess what I am getting at here is:
What is the recommended sPW @ idle, what is the max sPW for TBI? (I think I saw somewhere 5 msec is static for tbi?)
What about the gms/sec, I am guessing that the 255 means the injectors are maxed out? what is the recommded gms/sec @ idle?
How the does the injector correction offset affect these things?
I had my inj correction offset at 376 usec from 14 vdc on up. SHould it be set higher.
Sorry for the noob type questions, I just haven't found any post that address all these things, just posts that touch alittle on one or the other.
To the point: As in my sig, I have a 350, vortec head, bbc tb, 90pph injectors, VAFPR, 26psi @ WOT and EBL classic. I have the formula for figuring BPC for the injectors, consulted with RBob to compensate for the VAFPR. I am trying to figure out what to set the injector correction offset at.
Is there a general guidline? like 300 usec for 61 pph injectors, 400 for 75 pph, etc.
Did anyone devise a formula based on FP, injector size, engine size, spw @ idle, spw @ wot, etc?
A while back, I was trying to figure out why my low speed VE table han a dip in it in the lower MAP areas, Then I was reading some other posts and seen something about the injector correction offset. I have my VE tables close, but I am not spot on.
So what I have now is: idle, sPW is 1.4-1.7, MAP is 45-50 KPA, 18-20 gms/sec all @ 675/700 RPM
WOT sPW is 4.8-5.1, MAP is 98-100 KPA, 255 gms/sec. This is the same from 4700 rpm to 5800 rpm.
So I guess what I am getting at here is:
What is the recommended sPW @ idle, what is the max sPW for TBI? (I think I saw somewhere 5 msec is static for tbi?)
What about the gms/sec, I am guessing that the 255 means the injectors are maxed out? what is the recommded gms/sec @ idle?
How the does the injector correction offset affect these things?
I had my inj correction offset at 376 usec from 14 vdc on up. SHould it be set higher.
Sorry for the noob type questions, I just haven't found any post that address all these things, just posts that touch alittle on one or the other.
Last edited by liquidh8; 02-04-2008 at 02:50 PM.
02-04-2008 | 12:42 PM
#2
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From: Shippensburg, PA
Car: 1981 Buick Century Wagon
Engine: 87 GN engine
Transmission: 2004R
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
Well, did some more reading of different posts. I'm guessing the gms/sec being at 255 isn't to important? i.e., if this were a MAF system, I would have some problems tuning. Or is my Airflow maxed out, and this is telling me something? I know there isn't a MAF sensor, so I guess that number is derived from a bunch of other things before it is displayed on the WUD. My MAP KPA is 100 till about 4700 rpm, then it is 99 to 98 KPA. This is all with a K&N 4 inch high open element air cleaner, and the hypertech soupbowl.
02-04-2008 | 02:51 PM
#3
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Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
There is no set formula for flow versus Injector offset.
Wish there was, but it is a little more difficult than that.
The offset (or "deadtime") is the result of several factors, which include:
o mass of the pintle and its lift off the seat
o fuel pressure
o coil inductance
o magnetic circuit characteristics - function of materials and design (like eddy currents)
o injector driver circuit design
So depending on these, there is a correction curve based on battery voltage that takes in account the above, which defines the "deadtime" as the opening delay time minus closing delay time, in milliseconds.
This is developed for each injector type and is then coded into the calibration. Any change in the above parameters can affect this offset correction curve in the calibration.
If you have a test bench (with an oscilloscope and an accelerometer) you can set the injector up and then feed it increasing PW using a function generator and using the accelerometer can determine how long at various voltages it takes to open and close the injector. This then becomes the battery correction curve, and then the BPW after that is the actual PW that provides the fuel.
Hope this helps.
Wish there was, but it is a little more difficult than that.
The offset (or "deadtime") is the result of several factors, which include:
o mass of the pintle and its lift off the seat
o fuel pressure
o coil inductance
o magnetic circuit characteristics - function of materials and design (like eddy currents)
o injector driver circuit design
So depending on these, there is a correction curve based on battery voltage that takes in account the above, which defines the "deadtime" as the opening delay time minus closing delay time, in milliseconds.
This is developed for each injector type and is then coded into the calibration. Any change in the above parameters can affect this offset correction curve in the calibration.
If you have a test bench (with an oscilloscope and an accelerometer) you can set the injector up and then feed it increasing PW using a function generator and using the accelerometer can determine how long at various voltages it takes to open and close the injector. This then becomes the battery correction curve, and then the BPW after that is the actual PW that provides the fuel.
Hope this helps.
02-04-2008 | 03:09 PM
#4
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From: Shippensburg, PA
Car: 1981 Buick Century Wagon
Engine: 87 GN engine
Transmission: 2004R
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
I was reading back through the EBL threads, and seen something to the effect that 5ms @ 6000 rpm tbi injectors are static, does this still true true if the WUD say you DC% isn't 100? I took a REAL good look at my data dump, and I have 4.9 spw @ 5125 RPM with a 82% DC, then it shifted (1-2 shift).
On the way home from work, I am gonna stayin it, manual shifting, to see what I am getting flat out.
Bear with me guys, I haven't played with this things since may07, since I was deployed the half of last year.
On the way home from work, I am gonna stayin it, manual shifting, to see what I am getting flat out.
Bear with me guys, I haven't played with this things since may07, since I was deployed the half of last year.
02-04-2008 | 03:16 PM
#5
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From: Shippensburg, PA
Car: 1981 Buick Century Wagon
Engine: 87 GN engine
Transmission: 2004R
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
That helps, but unfortunetly I don't have a test bench. I prolly could rig something up in work but, I'd be out of wheels. lol. I've been running the same correction offset that was in the original EBL bin, something to the effect of 373usec @ 14 vdc. I 'm guessing I would need something higher sonce I have the bbc 90 phh injectors. I seen a few people here using these changing around the table, I just didn't want to go to crazy adjusting it blindly.
Maybe I could get a bbc bin, and find the correction offset in there? Then I would still have to change it since my FP is higher right?
Sorry, alot of questions.
Maybe I could get a bbc bin, and find the correction offset in there? Then I would still have to change it since my FP is higher right?
Sorry, alot of questions.
02-04-2008 | 03:23 PM
#6
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Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
Most of the RPD TBI injectors have similar construction, and therefore electrical performance.
So BIG variant would be fuel pressure.
If you run the stock fuel pressure for the lower flow injectors (say the 55 or 65 #/hr units on SBCs) then that pressure is about 12-14 psig and the correction curve will be very similar on the 80 and 90 #/hr BBC units.
BUT, if you bump the pressure up to 20-25 psig as some do to cover higher HP ratings, then this extra pressure causes the injector to open slower. Closing time is about the same. So you would need to adjust your BATT correction table for this.
Unfortunately, this correction curve is NOT linear, so you have to play with it.
good news is that most of the correction offset is for voltages BELOW 10 volts. Above that, it converges on Peak and Hold injectors.
So BIG variant would be fuel pressure.
If you run the stock fuel pressure for the lower flow injectors (say the 55 or 65 #/hr units on SBCs) then that pressure is about 12-14 psig and the correction curve will be very similar on the 80 and 90 #/hr BBC units.
BUT, if you bump the pressure up to 20-25 psig as some do to cover higher HP ratings, then this extra pressure causes the injector to open slower. Closing time is about the same. So you would need to adjust your BATT correction table for this.
Unfortunately, this correction curve is NOT linear, so you have to play with it.
good news is that most of the correction offset is for voltages BELOW 10 volts. Above that, it converges on Peak and Hold injectors.
02-04-2008 | 03:39 PM
#7
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From: Shippensburg, PA
Car: 1981 Buick Century Wagon
Engine: 87 GN engine
Transmission: 2004R
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
What is the offset an offset of? Another table perhaps? Do the ve tables reference this offset table for fueling needs. Or does the BPC vs VAC table use this offset table for a refence for something?
Sorry for the noob style questions, I am searching and searching as I type this thread.
I am in the high FP area as others are, about 24-25 PSI @ WOT. I hav a vaprf, I'm not sure how that could affect things. This is sound ing like a shot a shot in the dark with out the proper equipment kinda deal, lol.
The main reason I am diving into these settings is I plan on boosting this engine in the near future, and I want to get a good handle on these settings. Or, find a setting the is the better. If that makes sense.
Sorry for the noob style questions, I am searching and searching as I type this thread.
I am in the high FP area as others are, about 24-25 PSI @ WOT. I hav a vaprf, I'm not sure how that could affect things. This is sound ing like a shot a shot in the dark with out the proper equipment kinda deal, lol.
The main reason I am diving into these settings is I plan on boosting this engine in the near future, and I want to get a good handle on these settings. Or, find a setting the is the better. If that makes sense.
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02-04-2008 | 03:50 PM
#8
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From: Shippensburg, PA
Car: 1981 Buick Century Wagon
Engine: 87 GN engine
Transmission: 2004R
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
Got this from the EBL thread from a question I asked when my stereo caused my car voltage to drop to 12.5 vDC.
The injector correction tables act directly on the PW.
The multiplier table increases or decreases it by a percentage. This is used as a global change the PW value. Recommended for changing the fueling on both low & high injector PW's.
The offset table increases or decreases the PW by a set amount. This is used to make changes to small PW's. By adding to a PW the smaller the PW the greater the affect.
In your case if the BLM change is across the board PW wise, I would change the multiplier table. If there is more of an affect in the lower PW values, then change the offset table.
RBob.
The multiplier table increases or decreases it by a percentage. This is used as a global change the PW value. Recommended for changing the fueling on both low & high injector PW's.
The offset table increases or decreases the PW by a set amount. This is used to make changes to small PW's. By adding to a PW the smaller the PW the greater the affect.
In your case if the BLM change is across the board PW wise, I would change the multiplier table. If there is more of an affect in the lower PW values, then change the offset table.
RBob.
02-04-2008 | 05:31 PM
#9
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From: Shippensburg, PA
Car: 1981 Buick Century Wagon
Engine: 87 GN engine
Transmission: 2004R
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
just did a log on the ride home from work, I still have to dessimate all the info, but it is showing me 5.4 spw @ 4900-5000 RPM with a 87-88% DC.
Oh, btw, my FP is 24 psi max. I have to hook the autometer sender up to the ebl to get a corresponding pressure/map/rpm. It may help me out here.
Oh, btw, my FP is 24 psi max. I have to hook the autometer sender up to the ebl to get a corresponding pressure/map/rpm. It may help me out here.
02-09-2008 | 10:27 PM
#10
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From: Tacoma, WA
Car: '91 Chevy 1500
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
So how do you tell if you need to change the offset or multiplier tables? I mean, without the test bench what can I look at in my EBL logs or the VE table? What does it do if it's not right? I have nearly an identical setup as liquidh8, but my bbc injectors are only #75 and my max pressure is just 18psi. I'm guessing the cams must be a lot different too since his requires so much more fuel.
02-10-2008 | 07:11 PM
#11
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From: Shippensburg, PA
Car: 1981 Buick Century Wagon
Engine: 87 GN engine
Transmission: 2004R
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
So how do you tell if you need to change the offset or multiplier tables? I mean, without the test bench what can I look at in my EBL logs or the VE table? What does it do if it's not right?
Ive been searching pretty hard core on the site to get a more solid answer, but I haven't found anything. I might not be using the right keywords, lol I haven't really noticed a difference in the SOTP dyno, or driveability. But increasing the offset seems to have me using less fuel, and lowering the VE tables by 5-7 in all cells. Is this supposed to happen? I dunno, but I seems to run the same as before I made the changes, just the EBL is telling me my mileage is better, and it is using less calculated fuel then before.
02-10-2008 | 10:43 PM
#12
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From: Chasing Electrons
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Engine: check
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Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
. . . But increasing the offset seems to have me using less fuel, and lowering the VE tables by 5-7 in all cells. Is this supposed to happen? I dunno, but I seems to run the same as before I made the changes, just the EBL is telling me my mileage is better, and it is using less calculated fuel then before.
One way to find out what values to use vs battery voltage is to disconnect the alternator. Then drive around data logging. If the BLMs fall then the offset is too high at that battery voltage. And vice versa.
To set the base offset bias at 14.4 V I look at the VE table. If the VE increases as the MAP falls then the offset is too small. Your VE table looked decent to me.
RBob.
06-25-2009 | 11:58 PM
#13
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From: Kansas City, MO
Car: 83 Z28
Engine: 406
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 9" with 4.10s
Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
My VE tables do rise as when the map is in the 20-40 region. I was not sure if this was because of cam overlap, an exhaust leak or otherwise. I am just getting done with running some Seafoam in the intake to see if I can find any exhaust leaks, but no luck with it so far.
Also, my volts are right around 13.4. I thought it used to be higher and I tried to check some old logs but didn't see voltage in them.
What to do, what to do?
Also, my volts are right around 13.4. I thought it used to be higher and I tried to check some old logs but didn't see voltage in them.
What to do, what to do?
06-26-2009 | 09:45 AM
#14
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From: Chasing Electrons
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Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
To check the voltage do a playback of the data log. The main WUD display shows both the ignition (BAT) and the fuel pump (PMP) voltage.
It is normal for the voltage to be higher on a cold start. Then as the alternator heats up the voltage is reduced.
If the fuel pressure is higher then 13 psi it can help to add some injector offset compensation. Try adding 100 usec at a time to the whole table. Will need to do VE Learns after this as any lower load areas with small PW's will become richer.
Then see if the 'bathtub curve' goes away. Also note that disabling async injection mode is a good idea once the injector flow rate is increased (either via larger injectors or increased fuel pressure).
Note that the bottom line for a tune is how the engine/vehicle drives.
RBob.
It is normal for the voltage to be higher on a cold start. Then as the alternator heats up the voltage is reduced.
If the fuel pressure is higher then 13 psi it can help to add some injector offset compensation. Try adding 100 usec at a time to the whole table. Will need to do VE Learns after this as any lower load areas with small PW's will become richer.
Then see if the 'bathtub curve' goes away. Also note that disabling async injection mode is a good idea once the injector flow rate is increased (either via larger injectors or increased fuel pressure).
Note that the bottom line for a tune is how the engine/vehicle drives.
RBob.
06-28-2009 | 01:28 PM
#15
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From: Kansas City, MO
Car: 83 Z28
Engine: 406
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 9" with 4.10s
Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
Thanks again RBOB. I am at 20PSI with 90lb injectors, BPC = 74. I'll go back and check some old logs to see if my alternator is starting to go. I'll take out the 100Us as suggested. I am running into tuning delemas now since it is getting to be close to 100 degrees here and 100% humidity. I started reading about using IAT/CTS, but I think I need to get the base tune better before going to that step. I should prbly only tune around one constant outside temperature, don't you think?
06-28-2009 | 02:10 PM
#16
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From: Chasing Electrons
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Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
This is what I am using for the two injector compensation tables (multiplier & offset). Also using 80.5#/hr injectors at 22 psi.
RBob.
RBob.
06-29-2009 | 02:08 PM
#17
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From: Kansas City, MO
Car: 83 Z28
Engine: 406
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 9" with 4.10s
Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
Ah yes, from the F_1001 bin. I reference that alot. What else should I copy from that based on similar FP and INJs? Also, I have not got the newest WUD. Can you email that to me?
06-29-2009 | 05:00 PM
#18
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From: Chasing Electrons
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Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
WUD: just sent the latest version to you, check your spam folder if you don't see it. Must be ESP or something, this is a brand new version that was released this morning.
Biggest addition is the ability to set up user defined devices for the ADC inputs. Can specify the voltage range, converted unit name, and converted value. The converted data ends up in the .EBL dump log file. Be sure to check out the new EBL_WhatsUp doc. It covers the set up and how to assign devices to the ADC channels
The built in WB & pressure transducers remained. Can also put the same type of device on more then one channel. So can run a WB on each pipe on a dual exhaust system. Or a 2-axis accelerometer using two ADC channels (one for each axis).
It wasn't easy to set this up. Had to do it for a new product that will soon be released. So it got done.
RBob.
07-08-2009 | 03:21 PM
#19
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From: Shippensburg, PA
Car: 1981 Buick Century Wagon
Engine: 87 GN engine
Transmission: 2004R
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
Is this WUD working on the old ebl too? If so, can I have the update? liquidh8 at hotmail.
Thanks RBob.
Thanks RBob.
07-08-2009 | 06:35 PM
#20
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From: Chasing Electrons
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Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
Note that WUD updates are available for all EBL users. Check the Update menu link for the latest news on what the WUD updates are along with how to get them.
RBob.
07-22-2009 | 02:54 AM
#21
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From: Kansas City, MO
Car: 83 Z28
Engine: 406
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 9" with 4.10s
Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
Thanks for the tip RBob. I have now relearned a bit and got a better VE graph. At low rpm and map, the VE values are really low around 5-7 and the learns always max out at 12 in these regions bumping me back and forth from rich to lean on decel only which I think I am spending too much time on since DCFO and DE will negate most of this area. But overall, the car is running strong in OL, but start up AFR is way lean in the 16-17s when I am cold. My first turn on to a major street is uphill and I went into the 18s and had to pull in the clutch to keep it from stalling. Also, I had start up issues until I copied your IAC - Power-up Init Steps. The car would surge and die. It still does a bit, but stays running. I know I still need to read up on IAC control since it has so many parameters to determine the steps.
Any suggestions on how to get the cold AFR up. I am commanding it to 12.5 or so, and don't know how to bring it back into range.
Any suggestions on how to get the cold AFR up. I am commanding it to 12.5 or so, and don't know how to bring it back into range.
Code:
RUNTIME RPM MPH MAP BRO VAC VE% TPS CTS IAT I/C O2 G/S SA KnkCt sPW aPW DC% Ay Ae De Id Pe Dc Cl Ln Fn Ac Tc Cp Eg Cel INT BLM BPC IAC AFR WB dTPS tpsAE dMAP mapAE aePW WB_1 0:00:36 1150 0 53 100 47 28 0 106 103 107 434 18 18 7650 1.48 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 16.3 0 0 0 0 0 16.3 0:00:36 1225 0 52 100 48 28 0 106 103 107 425 19 18 7650 1.419 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 17.9 0 0 0 0 0 17.9 0:00:36 1225 0 51 100 49 27 0 106 103 107 425 16 16 7650 1.389 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 18.3 0 0 0 0 0 18.3 0:00:37 1175 0 51 100 49 26 0 106 103 107 425 17 18 7650 1.419 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 17 0 0 0 0 0 17 0:00:37 1225 0 51 100 49 25 0 106 103 107 425 17 17 7650 1.358 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 16.7 0 0 0 0 0 16.7 0:00:37 1250 0 50 100 49 27 0 106 103 107 425 16 16 7650 1.389 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 16.8 0 0 0 0 0 16.8 0:00:37 1150 0 50 100 49 26 0 106 103 107 425 17 18 7650 1.358 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 16.6 0 0 0 0 0 16.6 0:00:37 1200 0 51 100 48 26 0 106 103 107 425 16 17 7650 1.389 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 15.8 0 0 0 0 0 15.8 0:00:37 1175 0 51 100 48 28 0 106 103 107 425 17 18 7650 1.45 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 15.8 0 0 0 0 0 15.8 0:00:37 1150 0 51 100 48 25 0 106 103 107 416 16 18 7650 1.389 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 15.5 0 0 0 0 0 15.5 0:00:37 1150 0 53 100 47 27 0 106 103 107 420 17 18 7650 1.419 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 15.6 0 0 0 0 0 15.6 0:00:37 1150 0 54 100 46 27 0 106 103 107 420 17 18 7650 1.45 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 17.1 0 0 0 0 0 17.1 0:00:37 1175 0 53 100 47 28 0 106 103 107 420 18 17 7650 1.45 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 17.5 0 0 0 0 0 17.5 0:00:37 1075 0 53 100 47 28 0 106 103 107 416 17 18 7650 1.48 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 17.5 0 0 0 0 0 17.5 0:00:37 1075 0 54 100 45 29 0 106 103 107 420 18 18 7650 1.48 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 17.6 0 0 0.6 0 0 17.6 0:00:37 1075 0 55 100 45 29 0 106 103 107 416 18 18 7650 1.48 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 16.6 0 0 0.6 0 0 16.6 0:00:37 1100 0 55 100 45 28 0 106 103 107 416 17 18 7650 1.48 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 16.4 0 0 1.3 0 0 16.4 0:00:37 1075 0 55 100 44 29 0 106 103 107 416 19 18 7650 1.511 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 16.2 0 0 1.3 0 0 16.2 0:00:37 1125 0 55 100 45 30 0 106 103 107 416 18 18 7650 1.511 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 16.5 0 0 1.9 0 0 16.5 0:00:37 1075 0 55 100 44 29 0 106 103 107 416 18 18 7650 1.511 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 16.4 0 0 1.3 0 0 16.4 0:00:38 1050 0 56 100 43 30 0 106 103 107 416 17 18 7650 1.541 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 18.3 0 0 2.8 0 0 18.3 0:00:38 1125 0 56 100 44 29 0 106 103 107 412 18 18 7650 1.511 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 19.1 0 0 0.9 0 0 19.1 0:00:38 1075 0 55 100 45 29 0 106 103 107 412 18 18 7650 1.511 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 19 0 0 0.6 0 0 19 0:00:38 1100 0 55 100 44 29 0 106 103 107 412 18 18 7650 1.48 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 18.5 0 0 0.6 0 0 18.5 0:00:38 1100 0 55 100 44 29 0 106 103 107 412 17 18 7650 1.511 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 18.4 0 0 0.9 0 0 18.4 0:00:38 1125 0 56 100 44 30 0 106 103 107 412 17 18 7650 1.511 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 18.2 0 0 1.3 0 0 18.2 0:00:38 1075 0 55 100 45 29 0 106 103 107 420 17 18 7650 1.511 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 18.5 0 0 0.6 0 0 18.5 0:00:38 1100 0 55 100 45 30 0 106 103 107 412 18 18 7650 1.541 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 18.4 0 0 0.6 0 0 18.4 0:00:38 1050 0 55 100 45 29 0 106 103 107 420 19 18 7650 1.511 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 18.3 0 0 0 0 0 18.3 0:00:38 1075 0 56 100 44 30 0 106 103 107 407 17 18 7650 1.511 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 18.2 0 0 0.9 0 0 18.2 0:00:38 1050 0 56 100 44 29 0 106 103 107 403 17 18 7650 1.511 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 18.6 0 0 0.6 0 0 18.6 0:00:38 1100 0 55 100 44 29 0 106 103 107 407 18 18 7650 1.511 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.6 18.4 0 0 0.6 0 0 18.4 0:00:38 1100 0 55 100 45 29 0 106 103 107 407 18 18 7650 1.511 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.7 17.2 0 0 0.3 0 0 17.2 0:00:38 1075 0 56 100 44 30 0 106 103 107 407 18 18 7650 1.541 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.7 17.2 0 0 0.9 0 0 17.2 0:00:38 1050 0 56 100 44 31 0 106 103 107 407 17 18 7650 1.572 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.7 17.3 0 0 1.9 0 0 17.3 0:00:38 1050 0 57 100 43 30 0 106 103 107 403 18 18 7650 1.541 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.7 16.7 0 0 1.6 0 0 16.7 0:00:38 1050 0 56 100 43 32 0 106 103 107 398 19 18 7650 1.602 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.7 17.2 0 0 1.9 0 0 17.2 0:00:39 1000 0 57 100 43 30 0 106 103 107 403 16 18 7650 1.572 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.7 17.1 0 0 1.3 0 0 17.1 0:00:39 1025 0 57 100 43 32 0 106 103 107 403 17 18 7650 1.602 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.7 17.1 0 0 1.6 0 0 17.1 0:00:39 1000 0 58 100 41 32 0 106 103 107 389 18 18 7650 1.633 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.7 17.4 0 0 3.4 0 0 17.4 0:00:39 1025 0 58 100 42 32 0 106 103 107 403 17 18 7650 1.633 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.7 17 0 0 2.8 0 0 17 0:00:39 1000 0 59 100 41 32 0 106 103 107 398 18 18 7650 1.602 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.7 18.5 0 0 3.1 0 0 18.5 0:00:39 1025 0 58 100 42 32 0 106 103 107 398 19 18 7650 1.602 0 5 N N N Y N N N N N N N N N 2 128 128 74 145 12.7 19.4 0 0 2.5 0 0 19.4
07-23-2009 | 02:44 PM
#22
Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
On a cold cold start the manifold is bone dry. I think RBob said do not add more crank fuel since that will be poss flood on warm engine. Same on choke. I believe the choke times out quickly. Kind of a TBI issue. especially on without ext crossover in head(me). On cold cold start you may need to just crank a second time. Now if it is running a while B4 it dies the OL VAC Coolant RPM can be enrichened at cold temps.
07-23-2009 | 05:57 PM
#23
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From: Chasing Electrons
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Re: final word, injector offset, sPW, gms/sec..?
Open Loop - AFR vs RPM & VAC
Open Loop - AFR Multiplier vs CTS
Since this is a cold engine issue can use the "AFR Multiplier vs CTS" table to command a richer AFR. Don't worry about what the actual AFR is. Just get it to the point where the engine runs OK. Which may also require ignoring the WB reading.
From the cal doc: "Defines a change to the commanded AFR based on engine coolant temperature. A minus percentage is richer, with a positive percentage leaner."
There is also after start (choke) fuel added. But as Ronny mentioned it doesn't last long. It's purpose is to prevent the engine from stalling right after start up.
RBob.
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