8UpAFord

man i need some help please anyone. I've read alot through the stickes and have been chipping my car for the past 2-3 years like 500 hours worth i understand it pretty well but not an expert by any means. I've got a 88Vette L98 from a 32B chip to 6E ninth injector disabled. My mods are list below.

VAT- Disable
EGR-Disable
TCC- changes
Cooling Fans-Times 198-205
AC -Loads disable
Timing base at 6 Stock
Min PE 60%
Timing table from a 32B chip +10degress all the tables
Max Spark adv 31.99
Pretty basic right know because:

My biggest problem is i think timing but please read on, I can't freeking datalog crap. Everytime I data log it only seems to work for like 2 mins at best if i'm LUCKY. I'm using DataMaster/with a Craig Moates usb to OBD1 connector. (Craig seems to think it's the type of ECM that i got 165.) Anyway my car seems to run good when I have my Max spark set too 42D and advance timing all the way across +10 Degress. Keep in mind i can't seem to get a good enough data log to get it to give me feed back. So i'm almost second guessing everything. It's pretty much stock with minor mods like Strait Pipes,Freesbee delete,180 therm,3:54 gears, gasket matched TPI pleium base and runners,air foil, AFPR 42-44 PSI and I think thats it. I know the L98 don't like to much timing but i think whats happening is I'm getting false knock from a PS pully and it's retarding my timing MAYBE it not a knock but it might tigger it. So my two questions are, is there a way I can customize a chip to make it almost a diagnostic chip, like for example turn off things that might help me really tune my motor up? My second BIGGER question is whats up with my Datalogging? I'm very technical in the Information technology field and it's not anything to with the Laptops i used. It's like it loses it's connection to the ODB1 Interface some how, it goes back in forth back and forth. I've change baud rate, differnt windows 2000/XP, still the same. Booting the laptops up with it connected and car running still the same. I've tryed tunner Pro RT, WinALDL only one that connects is Datamaster everything else no worky. My Specs on my ECM are below. I swear It's killing me, I hate to be a pain in the butt with all this but is there someone that could help me out? I really apresate it thanks 1 Last QUESTION, say for example i finally get all this working, When I data log is it a good idea to rev up the motor put it in gear and bog it down rather then drive it round and datalog? Because if I can just sit there and data log it's safer then me going crazy drving gettin pissed at it for not working trying to datalog.


On box Service number 01227165

On chip it's self
16069300
27C256/5DBB
5012AP
07270015X
ABTS4767

Grumpy

Try another 165, some are just flakey. On the early ones, they just didn't use enough solder.

Baring that, it might be the *writting on the wall*, to you, to step up to a 730.

The 165 is a half board ecm, and the only one I know of that GM played with. That might be another hint.

Not trying to be the bearer of bad news, but sometimes it time to just cut your loses. 500 hr is way over the top..........

8UpAFord

Hey Grump,
Thanks for the reply, I might look into getting another 165 this summer. I'll need to reseach 730 isn't that one for SD vehilces, if not whats the plus side to a 730?

Well seeing as I can't really get it to datalog but for a minite or so. Is it a good idea to data log it while in park rather then drive it? I might just plug it in try to get it to data log then just rev it up a bunch and see if i get knock or whatever is that a good way? Is the knock sensor normally disabled until it passes a certin RPM too?

I love doing this, I'll be figuring something out one day make her work right or it's gonna get a LS1 convertion I might just dump the TPI setup invest in something else. My plains where to stroke it after the 350 took a ch!!t, but if it's gonna give me hell well....

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

The first thing I did to my vette was repin it from the '165 to '730. Just do it. I'll help you. It even fits under the dash where the '165 was. Trust me you'll love it.

Grumpy knows his stuff. He's helped me for years, and given me advice on all my projects, no matter how wacky. Trust what he says.

-- Joe

327_TPI_77_Maro

iTrader: (8)

I made my own crappy ALDL cable from Radioshack parts. It is held together with a lot of solder and tape. It will datalog at the 8192 baud rate all day long. I have datalogged for long trips before. It's definitely not the '165 ecu that can't be datalogged properly. Yours may be shot.

8UpAFord

Well I figure I'm not gonna repin unless I endup doing a LS1 swap or something. I'm gonna start reading about that here and see if it's a challange, but in the mean time could you all answer there two question please?

Is it a good idea to data log it while in park rather then drive it around? I might just plug it in try to get it to data log then just rev it up a bunch and see if i get knock or whatever is that a good way? Is the knock sensor normally disabled until it passes a certin RPM too on a stock 6E?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

You can get started with running the engine and low RPM rev-ing. Once that looks good the road is the only way to finish up.

The knock retard is typically disabled under a set MPH and RPM. This is such as seen at idle. The logic (again typically) is that once either the MPH or the RPM set point is exceeded, then knock retard can occur.

{in reference to your first post} Trouble data logging with the '165 can be the ECM. That particular ECM has a history of strange failures. A tap test can be tried. Engine running at idle, tap on the ECM. If the way the engine was running changed most likely the ECM is bad.

RBob.

8UpAFord

hey thank you for all your help guys. Guess the darn thing pisses me off a little. I'll most def try that tap test, now that you all are telling me all this my ECU must be crapping out on me. it's weird its like the car is running good then running bad so times.


Guess I could give in to the 730 ECU. What does that ecu have over the 165 ecu. Maybe i can just buy another 165 ECU. btw if this thing is junkie is there a good place to buy these at or will a junk yard be the way to go??? just a quick and dirty please, i'll start to search too.

8UpAFord

Hey BTW guys, I gotta lotta respect for you all in DIY form. I've read alot of the stickies Grumpys name is all over the place. Lotta smart smart guys on this site. Maybe you all should work for NASA if you don't already....

8UpAFord

Ok guys my status, Please give me feed back.

1. Tap test, Tap test did not result in any changes to the engine while running.

2. Tunnig problem still there, but for know i'm dealing with it a little until i figure out what the benifits are with a 730. I was able to datalog for a bit. My results are making my head spin. I put a totally stock 6E file in and ran it, both are at a stand still and one is bog down in 1st gear other is just a rev. I need help from you guys, I need to know is it normal to have this kind of knock retard with a stock bin? I my other params look pretty good i think, my fuel looks good.

I have my file in datamaster could someone please open then check it out? I'm truely starting to believe that there is something that is causing this knock but i need your all advice. remember all is stock on the chip. IF someone would be so kind as to tell me of any other params look off too.

I'll name the file extentions .txt you'll need to rename them back to .uni

8UpAFord

my other file too

zz4350

I don't have datamaster so I can't open your logs but I went through something like you are experiencing this past summer. I have an 89 vette with the 165 MAF setup and a miniram/cam/heads/exhaust setup. Couldn't pass IL emissions after I had a local guy make me a couple of proms and the TPIS retry was worse AND I couldn't get my EASE setup to log. I eventually loaded up WinALDL and sometimes got a few minutes at a low baud rate. Bit the bullet and bought the rest of what I needed from Moates to burn my own chips. Loaded up all the proms I had thru the Flash and Burn and used TunerPro RT to make the changes I needed. 6 burns later I passed emissions but I still couldn't get any real logs. Craig helped me out once and we got it connected while I was sitting in the garage but ten minutes later I couldn't get it to hook up. Like you I figured EASE, WinALDL and TunerPro wouldn't work cause of the digital dash 165 setup or something like that as I changed baud rates, Opr system, Com ports, and even changed to a spare 165 computer I had. At the same time I was having a mysterious problem of the car just dying on me as I'm driviing. Trouble shooting that determined a bad ECM so I just used the spare but no log hookup. I did discover early on that I was not getting the proper start address when I burned the new proms but the car ran anyways. Finally one time I got out the trusty paper chip and jumpered the ALDL to manualy check trouble codes and couldn't get anything to flash. Through in the original chip and no problen getting the diagnostic codes to flash. Hooked up the laptop and low and behold it connects. To the bottom line. I had 4 starting bins to start burning from - Stock 6E, TPIS stage V for my setup, Local guru Prom and a ASM chip. I liked the ASM chip the best and had been using it as the base to make my changes from and it apparently had either a fault or a deliberate code line shift that allowed me to read it thru Tuner Pro and modify it and it would run the car BUT YOU COULDN'T LOG! Went back and redid all the changes I made and put it on the the TPIS base, the stock base and the local guru's base and everything worked including all three of my loggong software programs. After 70+ burns and logging sessions over the summer I am getting the thing to run pretty good except for a little lean stumble at quick part throttle stabs in the AE area. I'm going to keep working that issue next year and I'd like to add a wide band --so your ECM could be bad or your base prom could be slightly screwed up. Check to see if it flashes the code 12 when you manually jumper the ALDL.

Good Luck

8UpAFord

Man so what your saying is i should put it my stock chip and data log? you might be on to something. the chips I had bought where i wanta say 256k and i'm using the upper half 4000-7FFF. I never thought about just putting in my stock chip dude. I'll give it a go tonight and let you all know.
----------
Man so what your saying is i should put it my stock chip and data log? you might be on to something. the chips I had bought are?, i wanta say 256k and i'm using the upper or second half 4000-7FFF. I never thought about just putting in my stock chip dude. makes for a great plan, I'll give it a go tonight and let you all know.

zz4350

I would jumper pin A and B on the ALDL and see if you can get the initial trouble code that flashes 12 first. Then I would put in the stock chip and do the same. Then I would try to get the scanner to log in using the stock prom. In my case I had a defective ECM and a defective or tinkered with bin that I had been basing my later chip changes on.

Let us know what happens.

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

On my older brother's 95LT1 Datamaster was disconected more than it would stay connected. I switched to data logging with tunerpro rt 4.14 and it was very reliable.

On m little brother's 88 v6 firebird, I couldn't get anything to datalog... I was forgetting to put the 10Kohm resistor from A to B.

On both cars I've had problems with cold weather. some of the electrical components used in cables arenot rated for cold weather. some of them could be rated for coldweather and just be out-of-spec, causing failures in cold or hot weather.

CriSSes

I'll have to chime in here and express my frustration with datalogging the 165 ECM. I've had my AutoProm and TunerProRT for a year now and still haven't figured out why it will connect and show all parameters changing and then within the next minute or so, it just freezes up and that's it. I have to close out TunerPro and sometimes even turn the car off and start over to get it to work again. Tonight I started using a brand new laptop with the latest software version of TunerProRT and the latest firmware version of AutoProm. Still can't datalog and now I close out TunerPro and try to shut down the computer and it won't log off or shutdown. I have to hold the power button for 5 seconds to get the laptop to power down. When I'm not using TunerPro the laptop works just fine

8UpAFord

Guys thanks alot for all your heelp.

I'm currently on the road and I have not yet tried to do them steps. I'm also going skiing in about 1 weeks so the next time i'll work on it is after Jan 28 . I'll most def keep everyone posted on it. I 'm hoping i get time maybe before ski trip. anyway the sanning with problems SUCK

8UpAFord

Well sorry for the big delay on my reply. Snow and work killing me. Anyway. With my current 256 chip E6 (not stock chip) I get the flashing code 12 when i jump A B terminals. I also get that with my 32B (stock chip) . I still have problems data logging. So oh well i get i'll need to replace that thing or figure something out. for know i've only bumpped my timing 6*/cooling temps lower/TCC delay,TPS 60% and thats about it. pretty much safe mods untill i figure out what to do aabout it.

thanks for everyones help. if you can think of anything else please let me know.

thnkas

69 Ghost

iTrader: (1)

Guys I had as similiar problem with a 727/730 setup using SAUJP. I had 3 laptops over the years and some connected fine and my last one appeared not to. I was very frustrated and had the same issue I could connect and then it would quit. I would suggest using Datamaster then start logging. If you have a bad connection it will stop but it will also start again. I was able to find that out that my OBDI connection was causing the problem. Bottom line check your connections.

8UpAFord

Turst me i've checked, i'm using datamaster and tried different laptops. i think the only thing left is to try to get a replacement OBD1 cable. I'm gonna see if Moates will give me a replacement? then try again.

69 Ghost

iTrader: (1)

Mine was not the cable it was the connector. I had to bend the pins where the cable attached to the cable. Next step if you are using an Autoprom make sure you have that set in your preferences. The RS232 should be set if using datamaster. When you hookup play with the wire. If it stops and you keep messing with it you will see the datalog start and stop in DM. I believe that when TP if it stops you have to restart it.

8UpAFord

Ok i'll check the pins when i get home tonight never thought about doing that(good call). Autoprom? what do you mean by that? i'm using a chip that i bought 256C i think. I us EPROM to burn the bin file on it.

I think your on to something good, But i'm not really understanding this part can you explain it better. The RS232 should be set if using datamaster. When you hookup play with the wire. If it stops and you keep messing with it you will see the datalog start and stop in DM. I believe that when TP if it stops you have to restart it.

69 Ghost

iTrader: (1)

Don't worry about it if you don't know what an Autoprom is then you will just be connecting directly to Datamaster. If you get a connection and mess with the connection and it stops you found your problem.

8UpAFord

ok i'll try tonight
thanks

8UpAFord

well thansk for the tip bro, but no worky for me. i bent the pins still no worky, i'm gonna try to replace the cable.

arec2001

I spent years with marginal success datalogging on my '87 ecm. I would work sometimes, but eventually would lock up. A few years ago someone broke into my car and stole my ecm (!!!). Needing my car to run that day I went to AutoZone and bought one (this was back in '04). I've never had a problem since!

My guess is someone on ebay bought a '165 that can't datalog
That thief did me a favor...

8UpAFord

I've tried everything, my last steps are gonna be reinstall Windows XP SK2 and install the newest version of Datamaster. I've even looked into all the detail configs of the datamaster manual. if that don't work i'm gonna replace that SOB, damn thing gives me a heart attack everytime i think about it.

8UpAFord

I just called autozone the 165ECM is $90!!! Wow thats not bad at all. I'm still gonna test a couple things before getting one. is the Auto Zone 165 ECM crappy?? I'm gonna post this question on the main board.

8UpAFord

WOW i replaced my ECC and know i can datalog. this is GREAT thanks TO everyone. Finally i can figure out what my car needs, and give it what it needs.

Now that i can datalog i really need help understanding a few paramaitors. like inj bpw inj dc and fuel trim. IS there a good sticky, i did a search with not much luck. I need like a all round what to search for when datalogging sticky.

this weekend i did alot of tweeking to my chip and datalogged. I'm a rockie to say the lesast. i just want this thing to run safe no knock and get my blms at 128 then i can focus on AE and PE and maybe timing. Also If there is anything else i'm not seeing. i think my car can def run alot better, smoother,and quicker. right know with my current chip and motor mods. It has slow throttle response and little bog at 1/2 throttle WOT is ok but it can do more i beleve. I know i can't prom beg. it's more like i just need to see what others with more knowlege see that I don't in my data log.
i have list of mods to my motor and chip below. i was wondering if someone could be as so kind to look at my datalog and get me moving in the right direction please???? this is a DATAMASTER file.

Not sure if these really means anythings but i ran the dyno in datamaster and from a 0-60mph run. it graphed out like 200hp and 300tq i know it's not the right way to dyno it. But i'd think it would at least be a little higher then that for a vette?

Motor mods
MAF Descreen & gutted ( might need to adjust my MAF tables)
Air Foil
Milded Porting Plenum/Base/Runners
AFPR 42PSI@wot
Gutted Cats no mufflers (I'm gonna replace with TPIS Full system soon)
Freesbee delete (it's a vibration dampner thats placed over the water pump on Y bodys only)
I think thats it.

Chip Mods
VAT- Disable
EGR-Enable
TCC- Times
Cooling Fans-Times 185-195 *
AC - Loads disable
PE 60% TPS
Everything else stock