Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

In my search for a PROM burner tonight, I found Needhams EMP-10, priced at $220. It includes an eraser built in so I could use EEPROMs and erase them easier. Will this work? Can I use EEPROMs or will only EPROMs work?
I also saw 27C256 chips (EPROMs), and 28C256 chips (EEPROMs), but what speed do I buy? They had speeds from 50 to 200 after the numbers, like 27C256-100. It is speed right, the speed of PROM in nanoseconds?

Forgive me if this has been discussed. I did a quick search but didnt see anything.

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West Coast GM Shootout 2001!
1991 Camaro Z28
5.7L 5-Speed (originally 305)
13.25 @ 107.18 MPH
Southern California
Member: SoCal 3rd Gen F-Bodies
Webmaster: SoCal F-Bodies
-=ICON Motorsports=-

Grumpy

EEPROMs are electronically erased proms, not UV. Whole nutter animal and more $$ last I looked.
One application of why reinvent the wheel.
If you designing an emulator that would be a different matter.

xtronics

There are some 27SF256 parts (see http://xtronics.com/memory/EPROM.htm) that are the flash version of a 27 chip - requires an adapter to program.

Jason LT4 CE

A 29C256 is a direct replacement for the 27C256. 29 means it's a FLASH memory, which works a lot like an EEPROM ( you erase it with voltage ), but requires a lot less power to erase and is MUCH quicker than EEPROMs.

I use a 29C256 in all my MEMCALs. NO UV needed to erase and re-burn. I made an adaptor so I can program the Flash in the MEMCAL package w/ my EMP-10. It takes about 10 seconds to earse and re-burn the FLASH ( try that with a UV EPROM )

No UV , No waiting, No hacked up MEMCALs ( ie sockets ). The cost is wash considering most people have atleast 2 EPROMs laying around, and you need to only buy 1 29C256!

DSouthern

Jason,
Can this be approach be used for our third gen cars?

Jason LT4 CE

Yes, I came up with this when I was tuning my 91 1LE. I hated having to UV erase the EPROMs, and having so many laying around. I wanted to be able to pop out the MEMCAL from the ECM, flash it with a new .bin file and the throw in back in the ECM w/o removing the EPROM from the MEMCAL package ( ie without sockets, etc ).

If there is enough interest in how I did it , I can setup a webpage.

TRAXION

Jason,

Karl from Xtronics recommended the 27SF256. Do you know anything about that?

Tim

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TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

TRAXION

Jason - I just figured out that the 27SF256 PROMs require a 'special Xtronics adapter' that costs $49. That seems like too much $$$ when you could just get the '29' version Flash chips that you mention. Is it a direct plug and play solution?? Can I just desolder the stock memcal PROM, solder in the '29' series Amtel flash prom and use my burner on the correct setting and viola - everything works great?

Tim

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TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

Jason LT4 CE

No I have no idea what a "27SF256" is. I used the Atmel 29C256, which is pin-for-pin compatable with the 27C256. It looks like the pocket programmer can flash this chip without and adaptor. So you could save the 50 bucks for the adaptor going with the 29C256. You then can make a little adaptor to go from the MEMCAL header to the DIP package ( it took me all of 5 mins to do this ).

Note - I have an EMP-10......you might want to make sure the pocket programmer can erase/reburn the 29C256 chip

Jason LT4 CE

Yep , the 29C256 is a direct replacement. I just swaped it with the 27C256. It works damn good Never have thrown a code or anything.

Scott 88 GTA

OK, now that we know there is a EEPROM that will work in our cars, lets take the next step. I have used Craig's program to download my stock PROM image through the ALDL. If there is a EEPROM in the ECM however could a program be made to erase the image and upload a new one through the ALDL, much like the HPP's used on 4th gens?

Hmmm.....

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Black 88 GTA L98
261 RWHP, 345 RWTQ
ZZ4 bottom end, Edelbrock 6085 heads, LT4 HOT cam, GMPP 1.6 RR's, ported stock TPI, SLP 1 3/4" headers, no cat, Dynomax cat-back, Stock PROM
E.T.F.A Member #11

TRAXION

In my best Monty Burns voice ... Excellent. Seems to me that the 29C256 by Amtel is THE way to go. There is absolutely NO sense in buying a UV eraser AND spare EPROMS AND ZIF sockets AND hypertech adapters. All you need is an extra AUJP16151348 MemCal by GM and 2 29C256 flash proms. Much much easier if you ask me. I'll be ordering a couple of these ASAP.

Thanks Jason. This information is invaluable.

BTW - I checked with Karl from Intronics and he said that the Pocket Programmer can flash the 29C256 chips ... no problem.

Tim

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TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

Jason LT4 CE

No prob. I was in the same boat a year ago when I started burning PROMs. I knew their had to be a "drop-in" Flash IC out there somewhere. It IS cheaper to go FLASH too. Like you said, no UV, no Sockets, etc. You already have the adaptor to go from the MEMCAL to the burner right?

poncho@home

Jason can you post pics of your adapter for burning the chip while still in the memcal...and instructions if you don't mind...a website would be great with your infomation on this subject

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89 GTA 350 T-Tops White/Grey----Looking for a little more performance than stock!

xtronics

Just hecked the 29C256 should be a dropin for the 27C256 - YMMV - there can be timing differences that can cause problems (usually where the part is used outside it's specifications) let me know if anything turns up. There is also a 27SF256 - but it requires an adapter.

TRAXION

Yeeeup, I have the adapter One of the first things that I made.

Tim

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TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Woohoo, this is awesome! I'm glad I came up with the idea.

Blade

I already ordered mine from Jameco. I got the 28C256 EEPROM made by Atmel, because I coudlnt find a 29C256. Altoghether with shipping it came out to about 14 bucks.

Bob Wooten

how about this?

PP connected to Ribbon cable (short)
ribbon cable connected to PC Card
PC card has socket on one side & pins on the
other.

or better yet there is probably a piggyback socket that a ribbon cable can be connected to.

Bob Wooten

Jason LT4 CE

The 28C256 will not work! Look at the pinout, and current specs. You must go with the 29C256 IC to get it to work ( trust me I worked on this for a while before it worked ). Timing is FINE. The 29C256 has GREAT specs, an overkill in the way of speed and timing .

Too bad I did this over a year ago Kevin

Here is a pic of the adaptor :

Blade

So who sells these 29C256's then ?? I called up Jameco to cancel my order since they didnt have a 29C256.

leirch

I'm very interested in finding out what i would need to do this to my car. I seem to be having several problems with my erpom experiences(see some other posts). If some pictures and nicely layed out instruction(Trax seems to be good at those things )


Brendan

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1987 IROC-Z L98,SuperRam,EB 6085's,LPE 219/219 Roller, Crane 1.6RR, EB TPI Base, 58mm TB, ADS 24#, AFPR, K&N, EB TES, Catco Cat, 3" Borla Cat-Back, Accel cap,rotor,distro/other crap, MSD 6AL, MSD Blaster 3, Aluminum DS, 94 Disk Rear, Adjustable Valve, Precision 3.73 Gears, Sub-Frame Connectors, Hotchkis Lower Control Arms, KYB Shocks/Struts, Suspension Techniques Lowering Springs, Polyurethan Bushings all over the place, Moog Upper/Lower Ball joints and Tie Rods ends/Idler Arm,

To see the ROC, Check out the webpage Here

Blade

Well I found a company that sells em.

http://www.insight-electronics.com

Only problem is, they sell about 22 versions of it in different packaging. I guess we would need the PDIP version ?

Jason LT4 CE

I don't remember where I got them from , I should have the reciept at home though. I'll check tonight.

Blade

JDR.com has them too. I just ordered two. They're about 4 bucks a piece.

TRAXION

Yeah ... JDR (Thanks Tim!) ... or so it should have read ...

Tim

------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

David 91RS/Z28

This is awesome!! I was just talking with my boss the other day about how it would be nice to program my computer like he does with the LT1 cars. Well, this is definitely a start!



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David Tuschhoff
1991 RS Camaro M5
A SuperRammed, TPIS,
Ross, AFR, Scat, Crane,
CompCams induced 355!
My f-body page!

scanman717

Do ALL f-Body's share the same memcal??
This part has everything but a prom in it right??
(AUJP16151348 MemCal by GM )

Thanks
Troy

scanman717

Oh, and what is the rough cost of the memcal?

[This message has been edited by scanman717 (edited March 04, 2001).]

CanadianBeast

Do you think this aproach would work with the 27c128 proms. Because it sounds like the way to go I haven't bought my equipment yet and if I dont need a uv eraser thats great. Also does anyone know if the memcal if the same for an 89 350 tpi as it is for the 90-92's.

Traxion for some reason the links to the pictures in your article arn't working. Thanks.

TRAXION

No. All F-Bodies do not share the same MemCal. The part number your provided is specifically for 1990-1992 350 Auto TPI engines. The MemCal includes the EPROM.

Tim

------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

Just got the old tax return today and it's time to get my burner. Can anyone tell me where to get the 29C256 chips? And which is it that I need, I tried the link to insight but like somone said they have about 22 to choose from and a $50 minimum order!!!

Blade

If you look at the other topics in this forum or even up a few posts you'll see where they can be ordered from.

Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

Sorry I tried jdr.com last night and got a blank page, must have been down because it works now. Thanks for assuming I'm just another lazy bastard who can't read a few lines up

92Z

iTrader: (1)

Traxion(and anyone else)-I see that the Pocket Programmer will program "flash" proms, but will it erase the 29C256 chips? I'm getting ready to purchase everything I need to start burning my own chips(Pocket Programmer, Tunercat, spare chips), and would like to get everything at once. I really like the idea of making the memcal adapter and just flashing chips as opposed to hacking up the memcal with a ZIF socket. Any help now and in the future would be much appreciated. Thanks

Grim Reaper

According to an earlier post from Blade, the Pocket Programmer just re-writes directly onto these eeproms. You don't even have to erase it.

92Z

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Glenn.

87IROC350

Hey gang this is great news for the 730 but is there a flash type replacment for the 165's 27C128?

Grim Reaper

I "believe" that you can make the 29C256 also work on for the 16K 27C128... but you have to "fiddle" with moving the memory. You can only access 16K of the 32K memory on the 29C256. Just need someone to try this.

I know a person that lives fairly close to where I have family on the lower Mainland and I want to "attempt" this on his car, before he goes out an buys a bunch of 29C256s.

If it all works well, we will let you know (unless someone already has done this). Unfortunately, it will take me 2-3 weeks to get the eeproms. Canada Customs has to "inspect" these things. All thanks to drug dealers and terrorists.

ws6transam

So, the 29C256 is offered from Insight?

Hey guys, I just ordered a MEMCAL for a 1991 305A4 TPI application: This should work just fine as well, right?

I'm going to be using a #730 ECM with my Minirammed 385 engine project. I don't like the idea of having to carry a bunch of EPROMS into the dyno shop. This might be a *lot* more elegant.

BTW, I buy about $100K worth of electronics components yearly through Insight, Future, Digikey, and Arrow. Should I find out how much of a discount I can get on a GP?

Now, there are four different versions of this ship that are listed in two different temp ratings. There is the commercial temp rating from zero to 70 degrees C, and the industrial temp ratings from -40 to +85 degrees C. The four versions differ only on speed specifications: 150 nsec, 120 nsec, 90 nsec, and 70 nsec. The faster, the more expensive and (probably) harder to find. Here are the part numbers from slowest to fastest.

AT29C256-15PC
AT29C256-12PC
AT29C256-90PC
AT29C256-70PC

It looks like Arrow has the -12 and the -15 in their system, but with limited availability. Prices are between $4.25 and $5.25 each, if I can even order them that is!

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Daniel Burk
http://www.isthq.com/~dan/fcar.html
'84 Trans Am WS6/L69
KB SFC, Moser axles, Torsen Diff. PST suspension, Braided stainless brake lines, Koni struts, 11-inch rear disks,Spohn Adj. torque arm,
Ported 305 heads w/1.94"intake valves, Comp Cams XE262H, Griffen alum. radiator,
Turbine Technologies 2500 stall converter, underdrive pulleys, Crane Hi-6 & more.
1.05g skidpad verified.
New best E/T! 14.039 at 100.82 MPH in 41 degree air at Stanton, Michigan.

[This message has been edited by ws6transam (edited March 21, 2001).]

Bob Wooten

Dan,

I would be interested in 2 or 3 of them.

Bob Wooten

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Bob Wooten
r71chevy@earthlink.net
www.r71camaro.homestead.com

Grim Reaper

I've had nothing but horrible luck with JDR and refuse to use them ever again. I have made two orders with them and TWICE they cancelled my order, but never refunded me the shipping costs to Canada.

And when I contacted them the first time about the "cancelled order", they assured me that they would send it out and wouldn't charge me shipping. Of course, they charged me shipping AGAIN and didn't refund me the cost of the shipping on the first cancelled order.

This last time was the last straw, with them again cancelling my order and scooping the shipping charges. JDR can go to hell! They have problems with the properly handling of orders. The worst thing, is that when I DO get my order, it takes almost two weeks to receive it. Anyone ordering from Canada should be careful with JDR.

So I contacted Insight on Monday. The only problem is that you must order a minimum of $50.00, so I ordered 12 29C256-12PCs @ $4.40 each. They got my order here in 3 days. They didn't even charge me shipping. The total price worked out cheaper than JDR for 6 29C256s when you include their shipping cost to Canada.

Bob Wooten

Cool, well not about JDR, but getting the new ones in. did you get any deal buying from them or did they charge you list on them @ the $50 minimum? not to make any assumptions here but are you keeping them all or willing to sell them, i got the idea that you were going to do a group buy but i did not see any bites so & i was not paying any attn.???

Tanx
BW

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Bob Wooten
r71chevy@earthlink.net
www.r71camaro.homestead.com

Grim Reaper

Well I finally got my chance to try programming my eprom with my Pocket Programmer. First, you cannot use EPROM.EXE as it does not have the AT29C256 as an option. So you must use FILEPROM.EXE and select the AT29C256 as a (F)lash. Second, you must execute this from DOS. If you try and run FILEPROM.EXE via Windows, it didn't program properly. But DOS works great.

Put it in the car, and it started just fine; no SES lights or anything.

[This message has been edited by Glenn91L98GTA (edited March 22, 2001).]

92Z

iTrader: (1)

Glenn91L98GTA--Did you have any problems with the 29C256 chip and VATS as did Kevin91Z?

Grim Reaper

Not at all. I used the 120 nanosec version with the procedure mentioned above. Everything worked out fine. I know that using any other method (burning) resulted in errors.

Grumpy

Is there a way then to leave the eeprom on the memcal, then use a Ribbon cable from that to the PP, so that you can program the eeprom while it's still on the memcal?. Seems like I've seen a ribbon end with a set of male and female connectors in one end, and then just males at the other.

Is there a version of the eeprom for the 2732?

Guest

I've seen a ribbon cable like you are talking about, thought about getting it myself so I dont have to butcher any more memcals if the eeprom route works out.

Glenn, I might just try that, but I have to locate some eeproms. I tried a couple places locally, but they didnt have 256's, only 512's. I guess since I am supposed to be using 128's anyway I could try to see if I cant make the 512's work. I know the stock chip in my car was a 256, but I couldnt reburn it, doesnt work. Missed something they did to it.

Craig Moates

So what's the story /w/ usage on the MAF? Cn you just tie some legs together on the AT29C256 and be in business? Anyone had luck on this yet? I could sell my UV eraser...

ws6transam

Hey you all,

I'm buying a dozen these AMTEL 29C256-12 chips from Arrow but they wont be in until mid-May. I only want two or three of them: Who wants some of the rest? I can sell them at 4 bucks apiece, plus postage.



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Daniel Burk
http://www.isthq.com/~dan/fcar.html
'84 Trans Am WS6/L69
KB SFC, Moser axles, Torsen Diff. PST suspension, Braided stainless brake lines, Koni struts, 11-inch rear disks,Spohn Adj. torque arm,
Ported 305 heads w/1.94"intake valves, Comp Cams XE262H, Griffen alum. radiator,
Turbine Technologies 2500 stall converter, underdrive pulleys, Crane Hi-6 & more.
1.05g skidpad verified.
New best E/T! 14.039 at 100.82 MPH in 41 degree air at Stanton, Michigan.