doc

For tuning purposes, I want to install a wide band O2 sensor. I will retain the factory single wire O2 sensor for the ECM stuff.

It has been said on this forum, how inaccurate the factory type O2 sensor is. If we want accurate O2 sensor output in the 850mV area, a wide band O2 sensor is needed.

Where can I buy a wide band O2 sensor with a meter display box of lights or digital?

TIA


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'87 L98 TPI IROCZ, AFR190 heads, 3.70 gears, ZZ9 cam, 2400 Art Carr TC, SLP 1 3/4" headers, SLP cat-back, no cat, no AC, no MAF screens, Accel manifold base & SuperRam, Edelbrock double roller timing chain, MSD ext coil & distributor, trans cooler, 52mm TB with airfoil, TB coolant bypass, AFPR(58psi), K&N filters, Hotchkis lowering springs, Car-Pro custom chip, Lay Ind. ram air kit, 265/45R16 Kumho V700 tires.
ET 13.39sec @ 107.21mph
'90 Eagle Talon AWD, no rust thru 9 winters
'99 Camaro SS, red, 6-spd, T-tops, Mcleod clutch, Pro 5.0 shifter, MAF processor, Direct Flow airlid, K&N filter.
313.7Hp & 320.6ft-lbf, ET 13.55sec @ 105.1mph
next mod: 4.10 rear gears

TRAXION

doc,

The main problem is that wide band O2's run around $1000 and up.

DIY-EFI shows diagrams for building your own wide band O2. However, you'll need to completely understand electrical diagrams in order to build one. I took physics and all but I still know my limits. Right now there is no way that I could build one of them until I spend significant time researching how to fully understand schematics like the ones published for the DIY WB O2

Tim

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• Program your own PROMs!. Read my article to get started!
• Research and Experiment before asking questions.
• This is not a chip store. Go to the classifieds if you want someone to sell you a chip or give you a BIN.

TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

Grumpy

Hopefully the DIY will get more manageable here shortly. Some revisions are being made.

Bailey Eng in MI makes a nice one, and sold thru Ramchargers. Uses the Bosch O2 with some really clever electronics. the only two I'd even consider, is the NTK one or Baileys. The NTK one needs a recal when changing sensors ($$$$$), wheras Baileys doesn't. Please feel free to double check me on the above.
HTH

Brent

iTrader: (1)

http://www.suprastore.com/supra/gredairfuelk.html

This is just something I found. No affiliation, endorsement etc etc.

87Z-ya

iTrader: (1)

This is a good subject. Having a wide band would greatly improve tuning ability of many people. And would be a great compliment to the 1 wire ecm's (holley, gm , old dfi, etc). I posted once about it and never got any great response.I guess that means that there really isnt such a thing as a wb os and little box with gauge for a decent price. I am in the process of gutting all my factory ecm and harness to make way for the speed pro with wb02. Does anyone (grumpy) no how long the o2 sensors last from these systems?? It just popped in my head. I know you say that people should stick with factory stuff, but just how many speed pro ecms have you seen fail. Everyone that I have talked to that runs the speed pro swear by it.

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87z 383,afr 190's, crane hyd roller(224/230-.509/.528,112 sep),Ported and polished mini ram, 30lb inj, 3.42 gears, strange 12 bolt, tremec 5spd, , 1,3/4" slp headers.
"Just remember children, no man can beat you once youv'e found the cliterous." 'chef'

88GTASTK

With the Speedpro WBO2 if you're running unleaded it should go 10's of thousands of miles. The same sensor was used on ULEV Honda Civics. You can't just go buy that sensor and plug it in though. Running leaded race gas people are going several thousand miles. Several Buick people have responded that they're going on 2 years now. The ones that I've heard going bad have been through gas additives and antfreeze.

I have personally heard of one bad Speedpro box. It sat underwater for a weekend. He had a new one in 3 days N/C. They advertised waterproof - heard they don't anymore.

[This message has been edited by 88GTASTK (edited February 14, 2001).]

TRAXION

Brent - good info. I haven't see that one yet. I wonder if it is a true Wide Band O2. Does anyone know?

Tim

------------------

• Program your own PROMs!. Read my article to get started!
• Research and Experiment before asking questions.
• This is not a chip store. Go to the classifieds if you want someone to sell you a chip or give you a BIN.

TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

David 91RS/Z28

The other company here where I work sells import performance parts. I asked if he heard of these and he actually has one in stock. Very nice little piece. Comes with a 4 wire O2, all the wiring, a computer datalink box, and the gauge in either black or white. The guage also can be setup for a warning indicator and has a memory function. If anybody is interested I could get a damn good deal for you guys on these. Probably around $285 or so. Please call me at my work(Thunder Racing - 877-516-7223) if anybody is interested. Just ask for me.


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David Tuschhoff
1991 RS Camaro M5
A SuperRammed, TPIS,
Ross, AFR, Scat, Crane,
CompCams induced 355!
My f-body page!

88GTASTK

Cost on a true wide band - without the box is that much, plus the wide bands I belive are 7 wire. Sounds like a more modern heated sensor. Would like to see how accurate it is. I had a 2000 ULEV Honda Accord in the shop not long ago that had a 5 wire O2 sensor on it that had a cost of 100 something dollars from Honda for the sensor. Anybody know if the new generation O2 sensors are getting better ? Honda dropped the NTK true wide band on the ULEV Civics. I replaced a O2 sensor on a 2000 Taurus that looked real similar to the one that GReddy used on that kit.

[This message has been edited by 88GTASTK (edited February 14, 2001).]

Grumpy

For any sensor to be a true wide band takes at least 5 wires, from what I've read. Now with that said, with very clever electronics the Bosch one can be used as a WB like Bailey Eng does. Trouble is getting that clever gets to the $1K price range.

Most O2 have a servide life of 15K hours. The NTK will generally go 50 on unleaded.

The **trick** seems to be using a WB with unleaded till it ashes over slightly, and then use unleaded. There are also O2 sensor sheilds that should help, Intech had a line on them at one time as I recall.

There are countries that used leaded fuels only until last year, and just used the regular GM O2s. It's EGT in part that **fouls** them. The stock EGTs and they last normally on export cars.

One experiment that needs done is heated O2 way back in the system with a sheild and see how long that lasts, once *broken in* and on leaded

87Z-ya

iTrader: (1)

So do you think if I relocate the wb02 that comes with the speed pro too right after the merge of the y pipe on my car it will be ok? I know the o2 is heated but will it get hot enough? the merge on the slp y is right before where the cat would be.

87Z-ya

iTrader: (1)

No opinions?

TRAXION

87,

In theory that should be fine (I say should because I haven't tried it). Many of the fourth gens have the O2s right after the cat which is very far from the exhaust manifold. Just make sure to use a heated unit.

Tim

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TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

steve8586iroc

Tim, I have a wiring harness off a 96 Tahoe 350 vortec and it had 4 o2 sensors on it. 2 before the cats and 2 after. The 2 before were for engine management and the 2 after were for recording OBD emissions or something like that. I would also think the exhaust would be hotter directly behind the cat as the unburned fuel reacts to the catalist provided there is a rich condition for some reason.

Steve

branz28

I've heard of a few LS1 owners, (not so much LT1) moveing their O2 sensor further up by the manifolds due to codes being set and reduceing knock? I don't know how this works, but i know they all swear by their "AutoTap" scanners, so it must do something. I'm not real familiar with the LS1 engines and such even though i own a 2000 Z28 (yes, i know, its sad). Just what i've read on the fourthgen boards...


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89 IROC-Z 350 TPI

-Flowmaster Catback
-Performance Resource Chip
-700R4 (Rebuilt) Too much done to actually list
-K&N Airfilters
-Ported Plenum
-2.77 Gears (not much to brag about but eh, its there)
-MSD 8.5 mm plug wires
-Problems every other day with the car (probably not a mod, but to me it sure makes a difference)

Grumpy

As far as the human end of it the 3-4 wire O2 can be mounted anywhere.
Some ecms pcms have a latency time correction so that when it does a O2 check it expects a rich signal back in x amount of time. this *sensor response* time also accounts for why there are sooo many part numbers.

The WB O2s (Honda) are 5 or 7 wire

The Honda sensors are now about $230 though NAPA has them under OS 791 for about 130. As of yesterday, if your planning on doing a DIY might get one just for grins.