S10Wildside

twadam and I were working on his dad's ****** this morning and had some very unexpected connectivity problems. The ****** has a 1227727 ECM and we're using two different laptops, two AutoProms, Datamaster, Tunercat, and TunerPro. After 5 hours of discouragement, we connected our laptops to my harness test engine (305 TPI with 1227730 ECM) and had successful results.

My Laptop
At first I attempted to log data with Datamaster. For a short while I was able to connect and get an internal runtime error after several seconds passed. As the day progressed, I was unable to connect to the ****** at all. I experienced similar connection problems with TunerPro.

Troy's Laptop
We had slightly better results with Troy's laptop. However, we were not able to log enough data without connection problems similar to my laptop. His laptop (loaded only with TunerPro) would connect, read data, then the data began to pause, and in short time stop monitoring alltogether. I think the pauses came as we began to actually drive the car.

Things we tried
- used both laptops
- used a backup 1227727 ECM
- used a backup memcal/adapter/prom
- rebooting laptops (lost count)
- used both AutoProms
- checked and rechecked AutoProm settings/switches/cables

Connecting to the 305 TPI Test Engine
All of the connectivity problems disappeared when we connected to my TPI test engine. My laptop cooperated, Troy's laptop cooperated, Datamaster worked flawlessly, and TunerPro worked flawlessly.

So What Gives?!
The only noticable difference was that my test engine was running at 14.4v and the ****** was runing at 13.7v. Prior to today, we have not experienced these connectivity problems. Troy was consistently data logging this past week and burning new proms.

Any thoughts?

twadam

iTrader: (1)

Would a low battery in a laptop have any affect on data logging ?
As Mike posted my laptop was at about 15% power or less at times, and it would connect and start to log data ... but then pause, or display slowness in the screen flips and eventually just loose connection all together.

Unfortunately, my laptop did not reach 100% charge all day so I can't prove that the low battery had anything to do with it.

Anyone else have any issues with datalogging and low percentage on thier laptop ?

Thanks,
Troy

Chadster86S10

THese are just ideas.......

1) Make sure none of your files in the program directory are read-only. I've copied over stuff I'd burned on CDROMs, and, you guessed it, the read-only flags were set and the program would not work properly.

2) Clear your deleted items, recycle bins, etc. to create as much empty disk space as possible for your swap file. Uninstall unused software, yada yada...

3) Uninstall the software, reboot, and reinstall the software and reboot again. I had to do this on mine to get TunerRT to work.

4) Clean out your datalog files, move them to a USB memory stick or something.

5) Doublecheck your CMOS serial port settings with the settings in your software. If using a USB adapter, they can be VERY finicky. Unplug ALL USB devices, and reboot with only the USB->serial adapter plugged in. It doesn't sound like this is your problem being that it does read for a short time.

6) Make sure your anti-virus is not trying to scan your data realtime. This sounds lame but we've all seen goofy things....
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The laptop's power settings could be throttling back the processor a good bit. If you have it plugged into the AC adapter, turn power savings completely off and make sure the processor is at 100% power. I don't think it takes alot of CPU horsepower to keep up with the GM ECM's but who knows....

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I just tried to type this and it didn't show up so if it's a double post please ignore....

The laptop's power savings might be throttling the CPU back on battery power. Turn off all your anti-virus and all the programs in the system tray and plug it in to your AC adapter.

Grumpy

Given that info., sounds like the batteries were low and it was a difference in how the laptops were being powered.

jwscab

I'm throwing this out there, since I don't know all of the history here, whether the car connected before, and this is a new problem or what.

I would try two things. First, verify that you have good solid grounds. If you have funky ground loops on the car vs. the test stand, the data might be corrupt getting to the scanners. add an extra ground wire if need be.

I've also had some funkiness with laptop batteries. Try to throw an inverter on the laptop supply while running. Be very careful if you decide to skip the inverter and try to directly power the laptop. certain brands of cigarette light supplies flip the polarity of the sources, so there is a voltage on the ground frame of the laptop. took a couple of fuses to figure out what was happening.

you also didn't mention if the engine was running while scanning. if it was, check the igntion wires for noise problems, might be a flaky wire, or a wire running over a harness bundle, etc.

twadam

iTrader: (1)

I will give this antoher shot later this week ... this time with a full charge on the battery .... I'll keep you posted.

chadster,
Good ideas, however I'm a little unclear on option 4. Are you suggesting that having too many .adl files in the TunerProRT folder might cause this ?

Grumpy,
Thanks again for your input. You might be right ... my laptop issues could be directly related to the battery (although I'm not convinced yet). It seemed to work when plugged into a power source but once moving down the road (running on low battery) it got finiky. Also to add to that ... after it disconnected I kept messin' with it (rebooting/reconnecting,etc.) as we drove and I was eventually able to reconnect fairly stable gather 1500+ records (still on battery). It was just odd that two seperate laptops had connection issues using multiple software programs.

jwscab,
interesting about the grounds ...
I was connected to the car earlier in the week with no problems, and the car was running. Unfortunately, this car doesn't have a cigarette lighter.

Chadster86S10

I'd bet the battery(ies) were throttling down your CPU. Being that it did work while plugged in I wouldn't worry about the files too much.

twadam

iTrader: (1)

I feel your thoughts are correct on the battery issue, however I still saw
some hesitation in the screen flips (numbers changing on the dash in TunerPro) even when plugged int to AC power.

I'll have more info after the next Tune session.

twadam

iTrader: (1)

I tried again tonight ... this time at 100%. TunerPro Opens, finds the hardware and connects via ALDL. I don't even have to start logging and I can see the number of data points pause sporatically. Then the freeze all together. At this point the only way to reconnect is to restart TunerPro.
This happens a few times then I can't even re-start TunerPro because I get a message saying "Tuner Pro is already open". It's not really open, but if I go into task manager ... I can see a resident tunerpro but cannot "end task" the program.

This is getting really frustrating not being able to log data.

I even went so far as to unload any unecessary software (Google Desktop, Movie Players, etc.) as well as uninstalling and re-installing TunerPro.

Is it possible I have a corrupt .ads file for reading ALDL ? I'm out of ideas other than completely rebuilding my laptop (which just might happen).

Chadster86S10

How about WinALDL or EFILive?

S10Wildside

I'm not opposed to taking a new stand alone speed density TPI harness to your dad's place and trying that out. I'm leaning toward something with the ****** electronics. We can unhook the current harness and leave it in place, then just install the new harness (with a 1227730 ECM), and run wires to the battery and to an ignition power source. If you guys are up for it, I'm willing to try.

The way the engine is exposed in the ****** is not much different than the engine on my test stand.

Chadster86S10

One thing I didn't see is where or how you are powering your ALDL cable on the *****'s. Self-powered cable? Temporarily wired to 12v? When you are logging and it starts "skipping" data, is the software recording zeroes and still "rolling" or does it stop rolling data?

For what it costs, rent a scanner from Autozone and see if it does the same thing.

S10Wildside

Better yet, let's use my Auto X Ray.

S10Wildside

I think this is being overlooked...

Laptop battery charge did not cause any problems when connecting to another TPI engine.

Chadster86S10

I agree. I was thinking last night about the 12v source on the cable itself (not the laptop). I take it your cable is self-powered. If not how did you power the cable on your test setup versus the *****'s? When I made my cable I opted to go the cig lighter route so I would be sure to have an easily tested source of 12v from the car.

S10Wildside

We're using an AutoProm (we each have one and get the same results from both). We're using the USB port only, no external power source.

Chadster86S10

Ohhhhhhh there is no ALDL cable in the mix, only the AutoProm... I used an ALDL cable on the download and my Ostrich on the upside. This could go on forever, but does your AutoProm have batteries? If so, save your current data to a bin and take the batteries out for a bit to clear the memory in case there is something corrupted there. What did Moates have to say about it?

S10Wildside

We haven't talked with Craig about it. The AutoProm is powered by the laptop, no batteries involved. We had the same results with both AutoProms.

S10Wildside

We walked away from the ****** tonight with more answers (and a few more questions.) It was almost like an episode of Mythbusters.

Myth: The 1227727 ECM is a “chatterbox” and has communication problems.
We connected each AutoProm to one laptop and had no problems reading the datastream in TunerPro. As soon as we attempted to record the data, the datastream would halt and the AutoProm connection to the laptop would become corrupt, requiring the USB cable to be unplugged/reinserted before the laptop would recognize the AutoProm. This behavior was consistent. We then tried using my Auto X Ray and had no problems reading the datastream. So, we then tried recording data with the MAX232 interface (AKM Cable) with no connectivity or recording issues. (Ah ha!) The problem only existed when recording data using the AutoProm (either one) with TunerPro or Datamaster.

So, in Mythbuster’s style…

Busted!
I installed a new 1227730 harness with a new memcal and the same .bin, disconnecting the 1227727 ECM completely. It was a Frankenstein sort of a test, having the ECM sit on a bench beside the car, grabbing power and fuel pump signal through the 727 harnesses fuel pump relay connector. The same tests were performed with the 1227730 harness and we got the same results. The only problems existed when recording with the AutoProm. There were no connectivity/recording issues with the Auto X Ray or MAX232 interface.

Blame the AutoProm?
I’m not completely blaming the AutoProm because it used to work with the harness in the ****** and it works just fine on my TPI harness test engine. The only things that remain the same between the 727 harness and the temporary 730 harness install are the battery power, the ground source, and the engine sensors. The battery is charging fine and the ground is supplied by a huge welding cable to the battery. I’m going to suggest that something about the datastream is conflicting with the AutoProm when recording data (in both TunerPro and Datamaster). There must be an explanation to why the MAX232 interface will flawlessly record the datastream and the AutoProm will fail. This is consistent and always reproducible. I think we may need Craig to give some advice regarding the inner workings of the AutoProm and the datastream. I wonder if a faulty engine sensor in the ****** could cause the AutoProm to act this way? Again, this problem does not exist on my TPI harness test engine.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

I just did a quick check and with the AP in the USB it indicates 90mA current.
There was a point I was going nuts trying to burn a chip and got nothing but errors.
Turned out that I was plugged into a hub that couldn't supply the correct power or was a 1.0 hub.
I plugged it directly into the USB 2.0 port and it worked perfect.
500 mA is the max for a USB 2.0 from what I see here.

Maybe something for you to check with the laptops.
Also a bogus ADS can cause issues like that (wouldn't matter with DM though)

Edit: Comm port settings at >115K ?
Std cables will work at 9600 but AP runs at 115 IIRC.

S10Wildside

I'll have to look at the settings. Thanks for the info!

Chadster86S10

You guys are solving problems and I'm discovering major ones. I think I'm going to have to pull my motor. I need to invite you over ha hah!

S10Wildside

Wait. The current settings work fine with the other TPI engine on the test stand. I don't think this is related to laptop settings.

Craig Moates

Sorry for showing up late here. And I might have even missed it if you already said above, but..

Have you tried using the APU1 in 'passthrough' mode with the horizontal switch to the outside as though it were a MAX232 cable? How about software, both TunerPro RT and TTS Datamaster? How about Ground? Is the ground on the ALDL good? How about power to the laptop, is it battery, wall outlet, inverter, or cig lighter charger?

S10Wildside

We have tried the horizontal switch toward the outside and selected MAX232 in TunerPro RT. We can not get a successful connection. Same problem with Datamaster.

I didn't build this harness, but I'm assuming all the grounds are tied together and bolted to a head. The Auto X Ray and AKM Cable are using the same ALDL ground without trouble. This is something to check though.

The connectivity problems are consistent whether the laptop is receiving power through the wall outlet or its battery. Both laptops act this way. We have not used a power inverter (no cigarette lighter in the car). When testing with the other TPI engine on the test stand, we had no problems connecting whether using the laptop batteries or wall outlet.

The connectivity problems are consistent with both TunerPro RT and Datamaster, however Datamaster actually displays an error. Something to do with an "internal" error. I wish I would have copied the screen. Both software allow me to monitor data, but fail when or just after recording begins. Again, only in the ******, and not a problem with the other TPI engine in the test stand.

I think Troy and his dad may be working on the car tonight. I'll mention this to them...if he doesn't read this post before I talk with him.

Thanks, Craig

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I think Craig is your best help in this area. I wanted to add a little info about ground loops/offsets. If you have a grounding problem it looks effectively as a reduced battery voltage most of the time. A 1 volt ground offset will make the battery look like it is 13.7v - 1.0v = 12.7 volts.
If it was working fine in the beginning I would tend to think that the grounding scheme has changed. Maybe a loose engine to frame or cab to engine ground. A ground problem will be more apparent at baud rates of 115K than it will be at 19K baud. You could try reducing the baud rate as a test.

If the AutoProm takes a power and a ground reference from the vehicle and the ground bounces 1 volt then it sees Vcc - 1.0 volts or probably 5.0-1.0 = 4 volts.....out of spec.

twadam

iTrader: (1)

Mike and I have been scratching our heads on this one ...
Craig, i really appreciate you following up on this one ... thanks !

As Mike mentioned we've tried the AutoProm with the configuration you suggested above.

The really odd part of this, is that I upgraded to the latest TunerPro version (v4.13.0400 (2/23/06)), and it worked great the entire week prior to this problem occuring.
(I could not consistently get connected with the older version of TunerPro -
v4.13.0366 (2/12/06) which is why I downloaded the new version)

Any ideas you may have will be greatly appreciated !

Troy

Unfortunately I won't be able to work on the car till Friday (unless I can free up some time).

69 Ghost

iTrader: (1)

I have been reluctant to reply to this because I have experienced this problem numerous times over the last year and have fallen on deaf ears. I came to the conclusion that it was the battery -sort of depending on what happened. I have had perfect datalogs, slow datalogs and no datalogs. I have a standard run where I drive my car to a friends house then back -about 20-25 minutes. Last few runs I have not been successful getting a datalog coming home. I run on a battery only and it appears to be that but I am not 100% convinced that it is just a battery problem. I have also gone as far as doing a second 'clean' load of XP on my laptop with only TP running. It has no antivirus or power saving settings on. The load has absolutely zero updates and is pre service pack 1. Mark states that TP sets up the connection so you don't have to worry about the properties. I have also found that even though these settings are correct I have to go to preferences-aldl and set the 'port' and apply before I try to datalog or the system will not connect. I have had my laptop datalog right down to 5% battery power and also not connect with 80% battery power. The frustrating part is I forget about it for a week go out and immediately connect with no problems.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Back when I was writing code for my emulator I used an Atmel AVR development board to sniff the ALDL line. It almost sounds like this is the only way to go about solving the original posters problem and the problem you have. It takes all the guessing away and makes it easy to solve the problem(s) quickly. You would need Mark and Crag to look at the data afterwards to see if it was what was expected. They problably have one kicking around because you can't really design this stuff without it.

twadam

iTrader: (1)

We've now tried a BELKIN usb to serial adapter with 12v power supply from the car, using TunerPro (Max232 on com6, 160 baud checked)

Evidently Mike had this working the other night ( I was not here) ... the only difference is his laptop has a serial port ... mine doesn't so I had to use the usb to serial port adapter.

The ALDL connection says its "connected" but there is no data in the dashboard. No Volts in the TPS position.

This is getting extremely frustrating and expensive ! This car has already missed 1 Gasser reunion and several car shows due to this connectivity issue.

We are very close to bolting the original TPI back on the car and sending Craig his hardware and software back.

The only question I have that may keep us struggling through this is "does the ALDL connection in the car (diagnostic port) need a ground ?" Currently there is three wires (black, orange, and yellow) The harness is from TPI Tech. Our data cable is utilizing the orange and black wires for the datastream.

Mike had left the data cable connected to a spare ALDL connector, so we would know how to connect it to the car ... this spare ALDL connector has 4 wires (the extra is brown/black stripe).

I'm not trying to be rude, just sharing my frustration. I realize I am new to this, and I don't mind struggling through these frustrations tuning the car ... but we can't even connect to do any tuning !

Thanks for any advice !

Troy

twadam

iTrader: (1)

I just read this from another post "no serail ports on modern laptops" ..

>$15 at the local junk/discount computer store for a USB converter.

>Works fine with everything except for ALDL logging with TunerPro. TunerPro >with work with the emulator and the USB converter though.

>Most of the time a USB converter is not the problem and the software using >it was not designed for the higher COMM ports or signal settings.

Has anyone had any experience with this ?

Craig Moates

This is on a 727/730, right? You should only need pins A & (E or M). No need for anything else. Just Ground (A) and Data (M).

If you want, I can shoot you out an ALDU1 and you can test that. I have an APU1 running in my 730 machine full time and have no problems logging with both TunerPro RT and DataMaster.

Have you checked the USB Serial driver settings? Make sure your latency is set to '1' instead of 16.

The vertical switch should be in the middle.

Of course if you can't get it to work for whatever reason, there's always a 100% money back guarantee. It really should work though. Make sure you don't have any other USB devices hooked up.

If you are running emulation while datalogging, then you should be able to scavenge power from the target device (ECM) instead of the USB port. However, I haven't seen the USB port to be a real problem in terms of power supply.

You might want to try a USB hub if you have one available. I know some of the older laptops have some pretty quirky USB ports. Migt be worth a shot.

twadam

iTrader: (1)

We made some progress tonight !

I actually was able to log 10,000 + samples of data on two seperate runs.

Here's what I found out:
My laptop,using the usb to serial adapter would not work.
I borrowed a laptop from work (with a docking station) and it worked. The difference was the work laptop did not need the usb to serial adapter. Also it did not seem to make a difference if we had 12v power hooked to the serial interface cable or not.

While I had the opportunity, I tried some testing. The work laptop still would not work with the AutoProm using MAX232 and 160 baud. I also tried downloading Beta TunerPro 4.14 (this did not respond any differently than 4.13.00.400).

My conclusion:
1) What I read in the other forum earlier that was posted by junkcltr, was correct. USB to Serial adapters do NOT work with the AutoProm.

My questions ... as a result of what I've learned:
1) Why does the serial connection seem to work with and without the 12v ?
It seems everyone says you must have a 12v power supply.

2) Why won't the AutoProm work in "passthrough" mode or at all for data logging for that matter (It did at one point) ? If it is supposed to act like a serial connection, could Mike and I both have bad AutoProms ? OR could we have done something to the AutoProms to cause this problem ?
Chips seem to still burn okay through the Auto Prom. Although, successful emulation has always seemed to be hit and miss from my experience.

I'm starting to think that I may have done something to ruin the AutoProm ... and potentially ruined Mikes in the process of all this testing.

At any rate ... it feels good to be troubleshooting the car once again and not the software/hardware. vbmenu_register("postmenu_2944261", true);

Craig Moates

You are running the latest APU1 firmware, right? Available on my site. Should NOT affect the passthrough switch mode though, so could be a moot point.

Can you verify connection at the big RJ45-looking ALDL plug on the back of the APU1? Maybe the connection there isn't what it could be.

twadam

iTrader: (1)

For your persistence and help. Also for standing behind your product.
I personally am not ready to give up (my father is more fed up than I am ... it's his car) ... as long as I can log data, and burn chips, the rest is learning the car. I think that's why I've been so frustrated, because for the last 3 weeks I've been banging my head against the wall and can't work on tuning the car.

I will check the usb driver latency settings tomorrow or Monday.

Vertical switch is in the middle, however I was never 100% sure wether this should have been "open" or "10k" (Thanks for clarifying).

What's the difference between the ALDU1 and the APU1 ? Is one older, or only used for logging ?

I wouldn't mind trying the ALDU1 ... if nothing else as a test. This is really bothering me about the APU1. Is there a chance I could have fried it hooking it up wrong or something ?

twadam

iTrader: (1)

I've never put firmware on the APU1 since we got it.
Guess that would be a "no".

Just checked out your site ... I'll be looking into what firmware version I currently have. Thanks for the tip.

RJ45 connection at back of APU1 ... I'm guessing your talking about the APU1 side of the ALDL cable (not the USB cable). How do you suggest "verifying" the connection. It's been reseeted a few times, but I'm not sure how to validate that it is a good connection.

Craig Moates

Just suggesting reseating more than anything I suppose. If you'd like, I can give you a little walkthrough over the phone to verify that you've got everything set up as it should be. Just get with me offline and I'll give you a number to call when you have everything in front of you.

Teeleton

We ran into something similar to this last weekend trying to use AutoTap over USB to scan a dodge van that threw a code on a road trip. We had hell getting it to work with either of our laptops, but through holding our mouth right, reboots, and very combinations of plugging, replugging, and reloading the application, we managed to get enough information out it to continue. Later that night, when we got home, we played with it some more, and he found a note on AutoTap's site that if you're having connectivity issues to remove or disable any 802.11 wireless cards that might be active. He tried it, and sure enough everything worked flawlessly again. So either the wireless drivers are somehow interfering, or the extra power draw of the wireless transmitter is causing the USB problems.

Worked for us.

Teeleton

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

if you can connect fine on other cars, then it has to be something with this vehicle causing the problem.

im thinking maybe too much AC voltage from the alternator.
i didn't notice if you mentioned this or not, but i think its worth a try if you haven't done it, can you connect with the key on engine off? will it log like that? if it works KOEO, turn the key off & unplug the alternator & then start it up & see what you have. if you can stay connected & log, then without turning the motor off, plug the alternator back in.
i have seen AC voltage cause some wild & very hard to pin point problems on computer controlled cars.

twadam

iTrader: (1)

Thanks teeleton and DENN_SHAW.

Very intersting about the wireless card, I do have wireless ... but have never used the wireless while tuning.

The AC voltage is a slick trick to try. I can connect with the engine off (every time) ... never tried loggin at that point since nothing is changing.
I will give that a shot as well as starting the car with the Alt unplugged.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

when you try to log with the key on engine off, pump the throttle & watch the TPS voltage, if its changing you know your communicating

twadam

iTrader: (1)

Yep, done that ... just never tried to log while the engine is not running.

Maybe we'll also try unplugging the alternator during our next session. That seems to be a good test (thanks for the idea!).

69 Ghost

iTrader: (1)

There are things that may interfere with your log. Antivirus, wireless, modems, etc. If you can disable them it may help. Set all your bat power options to Never. Also try my ritual below. Mark states that I sould not have to do this but I cannot connect unless I do:

1. Tools- Preferences- select com port (even though it is correct) -apply.
2. ALDL Datalogging- Select defintion.
3. Select log for Rec/Play give it a name.
4. Turn on key and send a dump request.
5. Connect to ECM.

Sometimes a variation of the above works like 3.5 Plug in the AP at this time. Also mayy want to check the FTDI drivers. Go to the site and get the latest. Run the uninstall utility BEFORE trying to install the new driver.

93_SilveradoTPI

iTrader: (5)

I sent this to Chevytalk Troy hopefully someone would be able to help you guys.
I will be working at Family First today untill probbly 5:30/6:00 After that ill give you a call and see whats up.

Link:Chevy Talk - Chevrolet Forums: Connection problems for TPI system

twadam

iTrader: (1)

Well, we had a very positive night and even got to speak with Craig Moates for a while. Before I get into what we found ... I would like to publically thank Craig for his time. What a gentleman ! It was a pleasure to speak with him. Not only was he helping us troubleshoot on his own time, but as we lost communication with him as he travelled through the mountains, he called us right back when he recieved a stronger signal.

Also kudos to everyone that responded to this thread, this is exactly what makes a site like this work. Some of you were even quite close with what we believe the problem to be.

On to our troubleshooting:

We quickly burned through multiple scenarios in connecting the AutoProm to the car. Everything seemed to test out okay (which most of us expected).

As we progressed through our troubleshooting we found a very disturbing discovery. A very simple test:
We disconnected the autoprom from the diagnostic port as it lay on the passenger floor of the vehicle (the only thing connected to it was the PC).
There is an option in tunerPro to connect to the hardware (this happens automatically when TunerPro opens AND the AutoProm is connected to the PC and the horizontal switch is to the left). You can repeat this connection by clicking on the "diagnostic cable" icon in the toolbar within TunerPro.
Okay ... so far so good we can keep clicking the icon and we recieve an audible alert telling us it is finding the harware. We started the car and tried the same thing ... same results, everything is A-OKay. However, as soon as the diagnostic plug was inserted into the daignostic port on the vehicle the AutoProm was no longer detected. Interesting huh ? Well it gets better ...
At this point Craig seemed a little awe struck and asked what our error count was (never knew there was such a thing until this point). After Craig enlightened us, we told him well, there still climbing ! He asked that we shut off the ignition and turn it back on ... this should clear the errors. Ok, uh ... we tried that, and there still climbing (300+ error counts). Finally he says, shut down TunerPro and restart it ... "uh, we can't" ... it says TunerPro is still open. The short of it was we had to reboot several times before we could reconnect again, or clear the errors.

So the conclusion was that we were getting some kind of interference through the daignostic port only when the motor was running. Now is when my father brings up the daunting question. "What about spark plug wires?"
We had Taylor 8mm Pro Series wires on the car. We looked at the box they came in and read some of the fine print ... "for use in vehicles where RFI suppression is not a concern".

It was at this point there was a silence in the garage and you could hear Craig laughing hysterically on the other end of the phone. So we quickly swapped out the Taylor wires for a set of OEM style wires and Whola problem solved.

After realizing this Craig made sure to mention that connecting to the vehicle was probably of "minimal impact" compared to the funky results we could have recieved due to having these style wires on the car.

So to Craig ... on behalf of twadam, S10WildSide, 93_SilveradoTPI, and twadam's dad "thanks for the humbling and enlightening experience"

To everyone else ... be careful what plug wires you choose to run on an EFI vehicle ! It could cause you some very aggrevating nights in the garage.

We will keep you all posted in the next couple weeks if there are any other problems.

69 Ghost

iTrader: (1)

Well this is interesting to say the least. I have been running Taylor Spiro Pro wires from the beginning and still have them on. I wonder how many others have this type of wire on their car and are seeing this. I still wonder as my usual connection involves turning the key on -connect then start the car after it connects.

twadam

iTrader: (1)

69Ghost - You should be okay ... if you read the side of the box there are 3 different styles of Taylor wires. The Spiro set is compliant with radios and on board computers. The "Pro Series" (not Spiro) that we have def. are not compliant from our experience.

Straigt from Summit's website:
Taylor Spiro-Pro Spark Plug Wire Sets

Engineered to work with today's sophisticated ignitions.

Taylor Spiro-Pro wire sets are the finest high-performance street and race wires available today. They have maximum firepower without radio interference, provide up to 10 times less resistance than standard resistor core wire, and are a must for electronic ignitions, on-board computers, stereos, and pit radios. Other features include a 100 percent silicone inner and outer jacket that provides heat protection up to 600 degrees F, low-profile silicone boots with grips, and double spring locking spark plug terminals for a secure connection. They're available in your choice of vibrant colors.

twadam

iTrader: (1)

Well, after realizing theTaylor "Pro Series" were not for EFI vehicles, we sprung for some Taylor Spiro's like 69Ghost has.

Well, to keep it short we ran into the same exact issue, the data logging would quit after a couple hundered data points. As we drove it we also noticed more excessive intake popping than the OEM wires.

So we switched back to the OEM wires ... and it was like a totally different motor ... no more pops through the intake and the data logging worked like a charm.

We plan to follow up with Taylor to get there side of the story and see what
they can advise.

We'll keep you posted.

Craig Moates

I've run a bunch of different wires, but have been running these for a good while now:
Moroso Ultra 40 Race Ignition Wire Sets: MOR-73615 - summitracing.com
They're real nice, and I haven't had any problems.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

As another data point or two, I have been using Borg Warner Select SuperMag wires and standard Autolite spark plugs. This is currently on 3 EFI vehicles with good results. The wires are available at Pep-Boys (yea, I know, but they are good wires). These wires have a stainless steel spiral around a suppression core.

The plugs are Autolite's such as # 24 and # 3924. Which are standard automotive plugs.

At one time I was going to switch to Autolite race plugs. Until I found out that they are solid core, no suppression. I decided not to try them. Even though the reduced center electrode and cut back ground strap may have produced an enhanced level of consistent power.

RBob.