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can i use the cars original ecu[/b] (bought the package deal with it preinstalled on a ecu so i have two ecus now ) with the comm cable installed in my harness?
Yes, the comm cable uses pins that are not connected to anything that the ECM uses.
one more question whats the prom slot in the ebl for can i just install my prom in there to get the car to turn over?
thanks
No PROM slot on the EBL P4 board. The double row header can be used with a stock MEMCAL for limp mode fueling and a knock filter. The small outrigger board is for a pluggable knock filter. There is also a location where a stock MEMCAL base knock filter can be soldered in.
which should i use every time i change or upload the bin, program or read? then after that is it necessary to verify and set bank
You want to use the Program Bank action to flash a BIN into the ECM.
can not find the VE learn files i see them when in the ebl program together with the other bins under the default user calibration folder but when i go to
windows(C) > program files (x86) > dynamic efi > ebl p4 flash > user calibrations there not in there with the other bins
when the 2nd pop up window opens in ebl after i select learn VE called "select file to create new bin" if i change it to desktop instead of leaving it in user_calibrations then i can access it and load it in tuner pro
thanks rob i noticed the same for reading the file if i use the user calibrations its there when viewing from ebl but if i try to find it in TP or manually as i described above its not
do you know what the 3005bin is based off of, is it the stock AUJP prom?
im having issues with the TCC just threw the stock ecu with a stock aujp chip? memcal? prom? whatever is the correct term for it
to see how it compares to the 3005 350 tpi auto bin., the first thing i noticed is that the rev on the stock ecu is snappier and quicker to fall down where as the 3005bin and ebl it lags at the top of the rev and slowly falls down these are only slow blips to the throttle at 2-2.5k rpm
the next thing is the TCC with the ebl and 3005 bin the TC will lock at around 40mph but only if the throttle is just slightly pressed anything over i would quess 2-3% throttle input and it just goes past the 40 and 50mph mark in 4th unlocked
with the stock aujp and ecu its not as sensitive its easier to get it to lock up at 40mph
what i did is mess with the mph in tuner pro lowered it in the 30s mph (at first thinking that the mph it was locking was just to high) but after testing i found out that its the amount of throttle being depressed which is causing it not to lock
changing which setting would help give me lock ups at 40mph starting from a dead stop or slow coast
TCC - HiGr TPS% to Stay Unlocked
TCC - HiGr Min TPS% Coast Unlock
TCC - TPS% Opening/Closing Delta for Unlock what does this actually do?
im having issues with the TCC just threw the stock ecu with a stock aujp chip? memcal? prom? whatever is the correct term for it
to see how it compares to the 3005 350 tpi auto bin., the first thing i noticed is that the rev on the stock ecu is snappier and quicker to fall down where as the 3005bin and ebl it lags at the top of the rev and slowly falls down these are only slow blips to the throttle at 2-2.5k rpm
That is due to the throttle follower (TF). The IAC gets opened to prevent stalling, this is entirely tune-able by the user. Look at the IAC functions such as:
IAC - TF Decay Filters
IAC - TF Decay Delay
the next thing is the TCC with the ebl and 3005 bin the TC will lock at around 40mph but only if the throttle is just slightly pressed anything over i would quess 2-3% throttle input and it just goes past the 40 and 50mph mark in 4th unlocked
with the stock aujp and ecu its not as sensitive its easier to get it to lock up at 40mph
what i did is mess with the mph in tuner pro lowered it in the 30s mph (at first thinking that the mph it was locking was just to high) but after testing i found out that its the amount of throttle being depressed which is causing it not to lock
changing which setting would help give me lock ups at 40mph starting from a dead stop or slow coast
TCC - HiGr TPS% to Stay Unlocked
TCC - HiGr Min TPS% Coast Unlock
TCC - TPS% Opening/Closing Delta for Unlock what does this actually do?
First thing to do is to make sure that the high gear switch is set properly in the calibration. Key-on, engine-off and check the WUD. It should show P/N in the center of the display. Then foot on brake and move shifter to a drive position. The WUD should show D.
If it shows OD then flip this flag and flash in:
Option Word 7 Input Polarity - Bit 2 - 4thIn
There are two sets of scalars/tables for TCC lockup. That is what the 4th gear switch is for.
> TCC - TPS% Opening/Closing Delta for Unlock what does this actually do?
It is to get a quick unlock on a fast throttle opening or closing.
its says 1/2 for all gears R 1 2 D3 and D4 or OD before it said OD in all 5 gears
The 1/2 is correct (for the EBL P4). There is a 3rd gear switch input that isn't really used on a 700R4. So it should show 1/2 until the transmission is actually in overdrive (OD or 4th gear). The switch is a pressure switch so doesn't activate until the transmission actually shifts into OD.
Note that there are some 700R4 installations that don't use a 4th gear switch in the trans, it is mounted on the shifter.
But anyway, you can now set up the TCC lockup the way that works for you.
checking off the Option Word 7 Input Polarity - Bit 2 - 4thIn didnt help with the lock up if i hold the throttle to 2-2.2k from a dead stop or 10mph roll it will shoot past 40mph before it locks i have the HiGr MPH OK to Lock all the way down to 25mph tried 35 30 and now 25 still locks close to 50mph changing the mph value didnt seem to do anything with getting it lock
the TPS% Opening/Closing Delta for Unlock setting this value for both, 20 open and 30 closed help make it like stock i can blip throttle to 2k and then it will lock up, with the stock 3005 bin values 12 and 24 pushing the throttle to 2k would just hold it unlocked in 4th
its got to be something with the TCC to tps % values do you know which ones i should adjust to get it to lock at or below 40mph while the throttle is depressed to 2-2.5k
my 4th gear switch is a normally closed if that helps, when rebuilding the 700r4 trans most re builders throw a normally open switch as part of there rebuild kit the normally open switch is not compatible with the 350 aujp proms the lock wont work correct could this be the issue with the 3005 bin?
[QUOTE=RBob;6377356]That is due to the throttle follower (TF). The IAC gets opened to prevent stalling, this is entirely tune-able by the user. Look at the IAC functions such as:
IAC - TF Decay Filters
IAC - TF Decay Delay
thanks rob missed this when you posted it earlier just went and messed with it now and yes it is snappier with little lag now we just got to work on the tcc now i want to get the 3005 bin as close to the aujp as i can before i start messing with the meat of the tune
what i did in the mean time was i loaded TP but with the super aujp xdf file under XDF> Select XDF file..., that is listed in this forum it came as a package with other files when i loaded the bin that i emailed you that i had burnt for the car yrs ago i came up with a more recognizable and realistic SA table (closer to a LT1 SA table) compared to when reading it with the ebls supplied XDF files the one with the red tint is the same bin file only loaded with the super aujp xdf file, do you believe that this is that actual SA file from that prom?
checking off the Option Word 7 Input Polarity - Bit 2 - 4thIn didnt help with the lock up if i hold the throttle to 2-2.2k from a dead stop or 10mph roll it will shoot past 40mph before it locks i have the TCC - HiGr MPH to Unlock all the way down to 25mph tried 35 30 and now 25 still locks close to 50mph changing the mph value didnt seem to do anything with getting it lock
the TPS% Opening/Closing Delta for Unlock setting this value for both 20 open and 30 closed help make it like stock i can blip throttle to 2k and then it will lock up, with the stock 3005 bin values 12 and 24 pushing the throttle to 2k would just hold it unlocked in 4th
its got to be something with the TCC to tps % values do you know which ones i should adjust to get it to lock at or below 40mph while the throttle is depressed to 2-2.5k
when changing/lowering the MPH value for TCC - HiGr MPH to Unlock and TCC - HiGr MPH OK to Lock it did make a difference in getting the lock up to lock up at lower speeds but only when the car is coasting down to the 30-40mph range or while in that speed range long after starting from a dead stop
if starting from a dead stop or 10-15mph roll with a steady 2-2.5k the car would still blow past 40mph to close to 50 before TQ locks and i notice the more throttle i give the harder or later it is to get a lock compared to just a unrealistic 1/8inch of pressing the throttle to give me a 1.5-1.9 rpm steady acceleration would give me a mid 40s lock up but i can not get the mph that i set the TCC - HiGr MPH OK to Lock
is there something with stall? the car does have a 2-2.5k stall but still 12 inch convertor
what i did in the mean time was i loaded TP but with the super aujp xdf file under XDF> Select XDF file..., that is listed in this forum it came as a package with other files when i loaded the bin that i emailed you that i had burnt for the car yrs ago i came up with a more recognizable and realistic SA table (closer to a LT1 SA table) compared to when reading it with the ebls supplied XDF files the one with the red tint is the same bin file only loaded with the super aujp xdf file, do you believe that this is that actual SA file from that prom?
Be careful with this, notice how the EBL SA table has all goofy values. That is because you are using the wrong XDF file. Doing that you will not be editing what you think you are. The XDF file is defined by the calibration layout.
The GM $8D and the EBL products use completely different calibration layouts.
when changing/lowering the MPH value for TCC - HiGr MPH to Unlock and TCC - HiGr MPH OK to Lock it did make a difference in getting the lock up to lock up at lower speeds but only when the car is coasting down to the 30-40mph range or while in that speed range long after starting from a dead stop
if starting from a dead stop or 10-15mph roll with a steady 2-2.5k the car would still blow past 40mph to close to 50 before TQ locks and i notice the more throttle i give the harder or later it is to get a lock compared to just a unrealistic 1/8inch of pressing the throttle to give me a 1.5-1.9 rpm steady acceleration would give me a mid 40s lock up but i can not get the mph that i set the TCC - HiGr MPH OK to Lock
is there something with stall? the car does have a 2-2.5k stall but still 12 inch convertor
It sounds like you want the TCC to lock in 4th gear at 25 MPH. This can be done.
TCC - HiGr MPH OK to Lock, set to 25 MPH
TCC - HiGr MPH to Unlock, set to 23 MPH
Then set these two tables to the TPS% levels that work for you. The "HiGr TPS% to Unlock" table values have to be higher then the "to Stay Unlocked" table values. The TCC will unlock once the TPS% is higher then the values in the to Unlock table.
Then as you ease off the throttle the TCC will re-lock once the TPS% is lower then the Stay Unlocked table values.
TCC - HiGr TPS% to Stay Unlocked
TCC - HiGr TPS% to Unlock
gonna have to try that out tomorrow i just finished trying multiple different confs with the tcc settings i even set to lock all the way to 0mph and i cant get it how the stock aujp does.
i dont want it to lock at 25mph i believe 36-40mph is where the stock aujp locks them, been driving auto third gens for over 20yrs so im just so used to how the gears and lock up feel over the yrs so when its off it just feels different when your used to the same thing
what i want it to do is lock at that 36-45mph range while the throttle is being depressed and according to the tps% in the ebl is under 25% which translate to a a 2-2.5k rev
heres a vid on how the stock aujp locks notice im even holding the throttle more past 2.5k which would be more the 25% tps and it still locks just as early as when its slightly depressed
i know it looks and sounds unrealistic like im letting off the throttle but my foot is still on the throttle the same amount when i hit 45mph in the vid it just locks, with the 3005 bin im having a hard time getting it to lock with TPS depressed more than 10% when i depressed the throttle to 3k like in the vid with the ebl 3005 i dont get lock up till more than 60mph
also about the SA table above i didnt edit anything i just loaded that bin but with S_AUJP v6-4a.XDF in tuner pro and was able to see a more realistic table i was thinking about coping over that tables values into the 3005 bin but is there another way to get the info out of this bin?
will probably get a chance on the 9th to mess with it again in the mean time im reading this over and over again from i what i gathered i believe i may have to mess the relock delay next its currently set to 0 13 6 secs
h) With the transmission shifting into high gear (overdrive) the TCC may be commanded to unlock. This is typically accompanied with a relock delay.
i) After the TCC unlocks it is common to have a delay before it is allowed to lock again. There may be different delays dependent upon the reason the TCC was unlocked. Relock delays may be as short as 0.2 seconds to several seconds (5 or more).
my car is shifting from 3rd to 4th with slight steady throttle 2-3k once it goes to gear 4th the stock aujp almost instantly locks it with the 3005 bin it stays in 4th unlocked for much longer time no matter what i have been doing to the TCC - HiGr TPS% to Stay Unlocked, TCC - HiGr TPS% to Unlock settings
my car is shifting from 3rd to 4th with slight steady throttle 2-3k once it goes to gear 4th the stock aujp almost instantly locks it with the 3005 bin it stays in 4th unlocked for much longer time no matter what i have been doing to the TCC - HiGr TPS% to Stay Unlocked, TCC - HiGr TPS% to Unlock settings
Open the "TCC - Relock Delays" table, change the D->OD entry to a lower value. Resolution is in tenths of a second.
Looking at the log & calibration I noted that your cold start commanded idle RPM are set low. You have the idle in drive set to 750 RPM from 151* C through 8* C (46* F). Then 800 RPM at -4* C and 850 RPM at -16* C.
The cold start log file the engine is at -5* C when started.
The picture is the idle speeds I use in the Camaro. Also, note that the park/neutral idle is higher then the in drive idle.
RBob.
havent had the time to test the tcc settings yet but from the thread
"Once the TCC is unlocked the throttle position needs to fall below the value in the lower row for the TCC to relock.
An example would be: with the TCC locked and the vehicle road speed at 40 MPH, the TPS% needs to exceed 28% (72 * .39) before the TCC will unlock. Once unlocked the TPS% needs to fall below 14% (37 * .39) for
the TCC to relock. It will only relock after the 0.6 second relock delay has expired."
im curious to why you use or where do you get .39 from? is this the formula i should use when setting the TPS % tables it would explain why its harder to get locks with more throttle at the 30-50 mph range if i set the TCC - HiGr TPS% to Stay Unlocked to 40 and TCC - HiGr TPS% to Unlock 50 its not really 40 and 50% TPS%?, with that formula above its much less at a 20 and 15% so anything over 15% TPS wont get me a lock
also noticed that the 3005 bin has the park and drive idles much different than the below pic (the idle speed that you use recommended) which is more in line to how a stock 350 auto tpi idles at, mine are in the 500 range when warm for both park and drive and they never go above 900 in the cold temps which i thought was odd for a 90-92 350 tpi SD auto bin. i even doubled check the bin right from the source on the CD to see if i accidentally changed them but no, a unmodified 3005 bin had these low rpms. could there be a error with my supplied 3005 bin that could be throwing things out of wack idle speeds, IAC decays, TCC settings ect? do you have a bin that is much closer to a stock 90-92 350 tpi auto?
im curious to why you use or where do you get .39 from?
Note in the thread you posted a link to, that was working directly from the source code. So the .39 multiplier is used to convert the BIN value to a TPS % value.
is this the formula i should use when setting the TPS % tables
No need to, the formula is built into the XDF file.
it would explain why its harder to get locks with more throttle at the 30-50 mph range if i set the TCC - HiGr TPS% to Stay Unlocked to 40 and TCC - HiGr TPS% to Unlock 50 its not really 40 and 50% TPS%?, with that formula above its much less at a 20 and 15% so anything over 15% TPS wont get me a lock
Change the table values to a higher TPS% value. The best TCC unlock/lockup points is dependent on many things. But set them so it works for you.
also noticed that the 3005 bin has the park and drive idles much different than the below pic (the idle speed that you use recommended) which is more in line to how a stock 350 auto tpi idles at, mine are in the 500 range when warm for both park and drive and they never go above 900 in the cold temps which i thought was odd for a 90-92 350 tpi SD auto bin. i even doubled check the bin right from the source on the CD to see if i accidentally changed them but no, a unmodified 3005 bin had these low rpms. could there be a error with my supplied 3005 bin that could be throwing things out of wack idle speeds, IAC decays, TCC settings ect? do you have a bin that is much closer to a stock 90-92 350 tpi auto?
This is from AUJP for the "In Drive" table. Add 100 RPM to each entry for the P/N table:
Note in the thread you posted a link to, that was working directly from the source code. So the .39 multiplier is used to convert the BIN value to a TPS % value.
No need to, the formula is built into the XDF file.
Change the table values to a higher TPS% value. The best TCC unlock/lockup points is dependent on many things. But set them so it works for you.
This is from AUJP for the "In Drive" table. Add 100 RPM to each entry for the P/N table:
RBob.
took it out today and its a bit easier to get it to lock up i found that the TPS% Opening/Closing Delta for Unlock helped the most im scared to change it much from the supplied bins 12 open 24 closed, i currently have it 24 and 36 idk if its like the HiGr TPS% to Stay Unlocked and HiGr TPS% to Unlock where thoses settings require one to be higher than the other or if i can put both closed and open both to 100? or have open at a higher value than closed
still gonna tweak the TCC till i get it as close to stock as i can and will report my settings here for those who have auto third gens that might want to see what to set them at to get it to lock like stock as all the supplied ebl bins have the same TCC settings
on to the canister purge its it just as simple as lowering the temp to get it to work or do i have to change the other 7 settings in tables and scalars?
also rbob thanks for being so patient but whats up with the WB on your site it says out of stock do you recommend another brand? and when will the TT1 become available? what is the cost?
many tuners have different opinions on location, i have shorty headers and a y pipe its best to put it on the end of one header collector or at the end of the Y where it becomes single 3 inch?
took it out today and its a bit easier to get it to lock up i found that the TPS% Opening/Closing Delta for Unlock helped the most im scared to change it much from the supplied bins 12 open 24 closed, i currently have it 24 and 36 idk if its like the HiGr TPS% to Stay Unlocked and HiGr TPS% to Unlock where thoses settings require one to be higher than the other or if i can put both closed and open both to 100? or have open at a higher value than closed
You can set both of them to 100%.
still gonna tweak the TCC till i get it as close to stock as i can and will report my settings here for those who have auto third gens that might want to see what to set them at to get it to lock like stock as all the supplied ebl bins have the same TCC settings
Just open AUJP in TunerPro, select the $8D XDF file and can look to see what GM did. That is where the above idle speed table came from. Just be sure to keep track of which XDF file is being used, as using the wrong one can corrupt the BIN.
on to the canister purge its it just as simple as lowering the temp to get it to work or do i have to change the other 7 settings in tables and scalars?
Just lower the temperature.
also rbob thanks for being so patient but whats up with the WB on your site it says out of stock do you recommend another brand? and when will the TT1 become available? what is the cost?
many tuners have different opinions on location, i have shorty headers and a y pipe its best to put it on the end of one header collector or at the end of the Y where it becomes single 3 inch?
You can use any WB controller that provides a 5V analog output that reports the measured AFR.
can i just get this and the bung only need the WB for WOT EBL tuning,
Chasing down a Code 43 issue with my '88 IROC 5.7 with an EBL P4. I am using the stock '88 external knock filter.
The check engine light come on after a few seconds of running both on the dash and the right two boxes in the Malfunction code window in the whats up display.
So far this is what I have checked.
Circuit 439 is in pin A6 on the ECU and pin B of the knock filter has +12 volts with key on and also with car running. (This is the +12v feed from the ingition).
Circuit 485 is in pin B8 on the ECU and pin C of the knock filter has +4.5 volts with key on and also with car running. ( This is the ESC signal lead to the EBL P4).
Circuit 486 is a ground in pin D of the knock filter I have 0 ohms to a chassis ground by the master and 1.5 ohms to the negative battery terminal. (This is the chassis ground).
Circuit 496 is the lead to the knock sensor it measures 99,500 ohms with the engine shut off the same reading with car idling. Have not tried hitting the block by the sensor yet to see if the ohms change. (This is the lead to the knock sensor).
Everything worked as it should back in 2017 since then I have had the motor out repaired some crash damage to the left front and swapped a T56 in place of the old 700R4.
Just got the car running a couple of days ago and have this issue that I'm trying to figure out.
The shop manual says the code can get set if circuit 485 has low voltage for more than 5 seconds at terminal B8. Should that circuit have +5 volts or +12 volts?
Thanks!!!!
Dave
The 5V on B8 is correct. With the EBL P4 there are only two ways to set code 43. One is run-away knock, which is a constant low voltage on B8. Since you didn't mention a constant increase in knock counts it is likely the other malfunction setting the code.
Which is the test of a 3.9K knock sensor while using a MEMCAL type or pluggable knock filter. This flag:
Option Word 3 - Bit 1 - EscTt
When set the P4 ECM tests the resistance of the knock sensor. In your case with the external knock filter that flag must be clear.
what else needs to be changed when changing injectors im using 24lbs from 93-397 camaro lt1 i noticed the AE and PRP settings are the same for 3003 to 3006 bins even though one has 22lbs while the other has 19 lbs
is only setting the inj wud trip display flow rate and inj injector flow rate to 24lbs all i have to do
what else needs to be changed when changing injectors im using 24lbs from 93-397 camaro lt1 i noticed the AE and PRP settings are the same for 3003 to 3006 bins even though one has 22lbs while the other has 19 lbs
The ratio of injector flow to engine displacement is the same between the LB9 and L98.
is only setting the inj wud trip display flow rate and inj injector flow rate to 24lbs all i have to do
To start with, yes. Note that the WUD MPG flow rate isn't used by the ECM. So can change it to suit the real MPG.
Been having an intermittent popping in decel, hot or cold, with or without a/c but worse with a/c on. Sometimes rapidly pops when wot at high rpm.
Engine is a near stock 91 305, stock tbi heads, 61# injectors (pretty sure, But might’ve been 62 or 65) I’ve tried playing with the timing to no avail, the decel popping usually shows lean on the wideband but have been unable to richen it up. Ill try and get a data log and bin up after work!
other than this and somewhat low gas mileage the car runs great. Like I said both issues are intermittent
I feel it may be mechanical but didn’t notice until switching to bigger injectors (tbi) I have changed the bpc to get good blm And afr while cruising (Car still likes a rich idle though ~11.9 - 12.8
Been having an intermittent popping in decel, hot or cold, with or without a/c but worse with a/c on. Sometimes rapidly pops when wot at high rpm.
The popping on decel could be an exhaust leak. If it truly started after the install of the larger injectors, it may be due to a small injector PW and the ECM is going into async mode.
As for the popping on WOT, it could be that the engine is leaning out (fuel pump & filter?), or bad spark plugs or something in the secondary ignition system.
I’m going to start doing some tuning with EBL Flash again. This time I’m planning on making changes to my timing tables when I’m started I only did VE learns with my WB.
Trying to find information on setting up timing for a heavy vehicle (10000lbs +).
Thinking of increasing fuel pressure currently running an external fuel pump Airtex E2000 used on 90s Fords
350ci with TBI heads, GM TBI intake and injectors, cast exhaust manifolds into 2.5” downpipes into single 3” pipe with a medium duty truck muffler.
how does the knock filter work particularly does it matter if i use one from caprice baby lt1 or v6 4th gen? will it just get the knock gauge to work in the WUD or will it start pulling timing when installed in the ebl
i ask b/c i do have 4th gen modules from v6, baby lt1, lt1, and lt4 if it doesnt pull timing when in the ebl than i would prefer to use the lesser valued KM
I have a 5.7L TBI slightly modified (46mm TB 61# Injectors, 24PSI FPR, Edelbrock 3704 intake, Al heads with 170cc runners, 2.02/1.60 shorty headers, .460/.484 lift 208/213 @.050), I'm thinking about installing an IAT.
1.) Living in AZ, I wonder what kind of gains will I see?
2.) What IAT should I get, something like this one? https://www.ebay.com/i/323819453255?...070ce2bd83690f
3.) Is this the correct wiring for it (copied from Flash-II wiring diagram)?
4.) Where do I install it? I have an Edelbrock open element air filter.
how does the knock filter work particularly does it matter if i use one from caprice baby lt1 or v6 4th gen? will it just get the knock gauge to work in the WUD or will it start pulling timing when installed in the ebl
i ask b/c i do have 4th gen modules from v6, baby lt1, lt1, and lt4 if it doesnt pull timing when in the ebl than i would prefer to use the lesser valued KM
How a knock filter works is a topic for an entire thread. Of which there are several here.
I'm not sure what you are looking for regarding knock. Any filter can report false knock. If you are looking for the most accurate knock reporting, it is best to use one close to the engine combination. Even with that, the LT4 engines have a desensitized knock filter over the LT1 engine due to the LT4 roller rockers.
i want to see if im getting any knock retard the red bar gauge in the ebl never moved and the spk table didnt show any retard happening when i clearly hear detonation (i had lower octane) i come to figure out that these features dont work in the wud and i had to either install a 730 memcal or a 4th gen knock module to see live knock retard in the wud
my question is how does the ebl p4 flash pull timing back when there is no knock filter installed in the ecu (it reads off the knock sensor in the block i assume) and does installing the module in the ecu affect the way timing is retard
even after installing the 4th gen camaro knock module i cant get the gauges and table to show any knock retard
I have a 5.7L TBI slightly modified (46mm TB 61# Injectors, 24PSI FPR, Edelbrock 3704 intake, Al heads with 170cc runners, 2.02/1.60 shorty headers, .460/.484 lift 208/213 @.050), I'm thinking about installing an IAT.
1.) Living in AZ, I wonder what kind of gains will I see?
i want to see if im getting any knock retard the red bar gauge in the ebl never moved and the spk table didnt show any retard happening when i clearly hear detonation (i had lower octane) i come to figure out that these features dont work in the wud and i had to either install a 730 memcal or a 4th gen knock module to see live knock retard in the wud
There are four different ways to install a knock filter:
my question is how does the ebl p4 flash pull timing back when there is no knock filter installed in the ecu (it reads off the knock sensor in the block i assume) and does installing the module in the ecu affect the way timing is retard
With no knock filter the EBL P4 won't see any knock counts. In this case it won't pull any timing (spark retard).
With a knock module installed the ECM can then receive knock counts and retard the spark timing.
even after installing the 4th gen camaro knock module i cant get the gauges and table to show any knock retard
If you can hear knock (detonation) and the ECM isn't seeing any counts. It may be that the module is bad or it was installed offset by a pin.
i want to see if im getting any knock retard the red bar gauge in the ebl never moved and the spk table didnt show any retard happening when i clearly hear detonation (i had lower octane) i come to figure out that these features dont work in the wud and i had to either install a 730 memcal or a 4th gen knock module to see live knock retard in the wud
my question is how does the ebl p4 flash pull timing back when there is no knock filter installed in the ecu (it reads off the knock sensor in the block i assume) and does installing the module in the ecu affect the way timing is retard
even after installing the 4th gen camaro knock module i cant get the gauges and table to show any knock retard
You can't just use any knock sensor and any knock filter. You need to have the correct one for the engine. The knock sensor is a piezoelectric element that is "tuned" to produce a voltage when it experiences a certain frequency vibration. This tuned frequency is around the same as the resonant frequency of the piezoelectric element so it starts moving back and forth, producing it's signal. The knock filter acts as...well... a filter for the signal. When the signal peaks are high enough, it sends an output (knock count) to the ECM which tells the ECM it has detected knock.
305s and 350s use different knock sensors because the frequency generated when a 305 knocks is different than when a 350 knocks. This is attributed to bore size (I think). There are different knock filters for the same knock sensor, though. As Rbob said, the LT4 filter is desensitized because the valvetrain is noisier. Without a desensitized filter, there would be a lot of knock counts. The filter is not able to discern between engine/transmission/flywheel/accessory drive rattle and internal knock. This is why it is recommended to check accessory brackets and exhaust routing/connections when seeing a lot of knock counts. This is called false knock.
Tell us what engine you are using, and someone might be able to help you get the right equipment.
The EBL should not be pulling timing unless it sees the output from the knock filter. The exception to this is it pulling timing on throttle tip-in, which is user-configurable.
engine has a stock 1992 350 tpi knock sensor in block, block is also 350 cu in, had 87 octane gas heard ping which is normal under load with 87 noticed the WUD nothing was showing in the SPK page or the red bar graph in the man page so did some research and it turns out that none of these will read w/o a filter or module in the ecu so i took the ecu out of the car to see if i can get these gauges to work as i think its valuable for tuning i have stock 3rd gen 350 tpi memcals and 4th gen knock modules i choose to use the 4th gen b/c there smaller right now it has this module and the pins are align correctly
can i use this caprice lt1 module with the 3rd gen 350 knock sensor? or does the filter have to match the sensor in the block as rj states
also how do i know that the gauges in the WUD work i ve seen youtube vids with guys that have the ebl have the red knock bar graph read counts at idle will the spark page display live retard similar to how the VE page does when in ve learn? or will these graphs and gauges only work for a split second when theres knock
can i use this caprice lt1 module with the 3rd gen 350 knock sensor? or does the filter have to match the sensor in the block as rj states
Yes, you can use that knock filter.
also how do i know that the gauges in the WUD work i ve seen youtube vids with guys that have the ebl have the red knock bar graph read counts at idle will the spark page display live retard similar to how the VE page does when in ve learn? or will these graphs and gauges only work for a split second when there's knock?
The vertical gauge KNK on the main WUD display counts up knock counts. The vertical gauge SaRt shows active spark retard. It will go up then decay back to zero when the knocking stops.
The Areas of Spark Knock display retains the values until the WUD is closed or the clear data button is used.
Since you are using an internal knock filter set this flag and flash in the BIN:
Option Word 3 - Bit 1 - EscTt
Now run the engine and check for code 43. If set then either the wire between the ECM and knock sensor is open or the knock sensor is bad.
ok i got it. went for a few test runs with the 87 octane that was in it and the gauges worked even in the spk page it was live showing the retard at what rpm and map areas which is nice put in some higher octane 92 (cant be sure what gas stations are giving you these days though) and had less retard as expected when i get some time i will try the lt4 module and aluminum lt1 modules to see if they will retard more or less than the current iron head lt1 module
one thing i dont understand in my retard page is the knk counts i have 29 counts in the 600rpm 40 map area but no retard what does that mean?
i also went back to the bin and pulled the 1-4 degrees out of the SA main in all the areas shown in peak spark retard (although im not sure if that is false knock in the low rpm map areas but pulled the timing out there too) this was a hit from about 2k to 6k rpm in 3rd gear 1-1 in an auto 700r4 on flat road
i personally couldnt hear any ping when the higher octane was used
one thing i dont understand in my retard page is the knk counts i have 29 counts in the 600rpm 40 map area but no retard what does that mean?
Pulling timing at that RPM can cause the engine to stall. In order for retard to take place the engine RPM -or- the vehicle MPH must be higher then the value in one of these parameters:
I just installed the EBL Flash on my car this past Thursday. Previously the car had a hypertech chip in it. The new tune idols a lot better, however, the car now has a stumbling/hesitation issue when accelerating from a stop or giving throttle after coasting for a while. When I first connected the com port to my laptop and started up the Whatsup display the TPS would only show at 92% when floored. I checked the voltage at the sensor and am getting .545 volts when closed (also other than a rough idol the car didn't give me any previous issues) so I went ahead and increased the TPS Gain Term for the 3005 bin until I hit 100 at WOT (setting is now at 104). No idea if that could be contributing or not. Other than that I've also shut off the TCC lockup by setting the LowGr MPH to 255 (since the previous owner swapped in a TH350). I also disabled the EGR by setting minimum MPH to 255 and CTS to 151 C. The charcoal canister has been unplugged from the throttle body and capped with a rubber vaccum cap. (EDIT: Forgot to mention, set the MAP to a 2 bar since that's what I purchased.)
I've run 7 VE learns (about 15-20 minutes each session) with the narrowband so far and it hasn't improved the hesitation/stumbling. If I go really light on the throttle you can barely notice it but if I take off even the slightest bit aggressive the car just about dies. I will say, it hasn't actually stalled yet. Letting up and fluttering the pedal causes the car to catch itself and takeoff. The stumble is only slight when accelerating after coasting for a little while, but it is there.
My car is an 88 Iroc 350 TPI. It has edelbrock shorty headers with a hollowed out cat into a 3" catback. AC and AIR pump have been deleted. Cut up the plastic intake box. TH350 from a 70s van and a 9 bolt swapped in from a 5 speed camaro. Otherwise, fairly stock motor. Like said, the car used to have a hypertech chip that had a rough idol but otherwise ran decent and didn't have the stumble.
Should I continue working the VE learns or are there any suggestions on how to resolve the hesitation?
Your low speed VE table needs a lot of work, looking at it now.
Throw up a datalog if you can, easier to diagnose that way...
- Rob
Hi Rob,
They should be the stock 22 lb injectors as far as I know. Looks like the forum won't let me upload a .dat file. Here's a google drive link to my last the data log: Data Log. Let me know if that works or is helpful.
I'm brand new to all of this so I'm not completely sure what I should be looking for on a log or in the VE tables. I was hoping the VE learns would get me to running decent and then I could slowly tinker from there as I learned.
They should be the stock 22 lb injectors as far as I know. Looks like the forum won't let me upload a .dat file. Here's a google drive link to my last the data log: Data Log. Let me know if that works or is helpful.
I'm brand new to all of this so I'm not completely sure what I should be looking for on a log or in the VE tables. I was hoping the VE learns would get me to running decent and then I could slowly tinker from there as I learned.
Thanks,
Craig
Craig, the datalog looks good. Just seems you need to smooth some areas out in the VE table(s). All sensor data is right where it needs to be. Don't forget that today's fuel has a blend of ethanol, so be mindful with your Closed Loop and PE targets. But that is just me, I am picky like that. Definitely try to confirm the fuel injectors, otherwise the Utility data will be off. If you can get a picture of them, or just write down their part number, could confirm them for you. Just need to be sure. But yeah, go into the VE lower table and smooth it out in the surrounding areas where the Learns take place. Here is a picture of your lower VE table...;
Craig, the datalog looks good. Just seems you need to smooth some areas out in the VE table(s). All sensor data is right where it needs to be. Don't forget that today's fuel has a blend of ethanol, so be mindful with your Closed Loop and PE targets. But that is just me, I am picky like that. Definitely try to confirm the fuel injectors, otherwise the Utility data will be off. If you can get a picture of them, or just write down their part number, could confirm them for you. Just need to be sure. But yeah, go into the VE lower table and smooth it out in the surrounding areas where the Learns take place. Here is a picture of your lower VE table...;
- Rob
Sounds good, I'll work to smooth out that Grand Canyon in the 25kpa x 1200-2000 rpm range and the jagged area in the 35-50kpa x 400-1000 rpm and take it from there. Thanks for taking the time to look over things!
I don't see any part numbers stamped in the injectors. I popped the clip off of one just to see if there was anything identification underneath but there wasn't. They're yellow tops if that gives any help with identification. Pictures below. I bought this car from a guy this past August who didn't really have any documentation on it other than the title in hand. He claimed the motor was pretty much stock other than the obvious removal of the AC and AIR pump.
Yeah, those are definitely not the stock Multecs. They could be 19# injectors, but they could also flow a lot more than that because yellow tops vary. But chances are they are stock sized replacements, especially if the spark plugs look good and burn clean. Part number should be engraved in them on the lower part of the yellow...
That's the long term plan anyways. Try to put together a low boost single turbo budget build. I had signed up for a welding class at the local community college but that went down the drain with the coronavirus. I figured I'd get the EBL Flash now so I can try and teach myself how to tune. Haven't committed to it yet but I think upgrading the injectors and fuel pump might be the project for this winter. Then maybe next winter take the plunge. I'm still trying to research things.
I'd really like to get in the 350 - 400 hp whp range. We'll see, seems like a few guys were able to get there reading through the Power Adders forum.
I'm setting up an initial tune and I'm adding the injector information. I have 94 Buick LT1 injectors and all the information from stock bins using EEX xdf. I have the voltage correction offsets changed but the Injector Offset Adder from the EEX doesn't quite match the Small PW Correction of the EBLP4 xdf. The EEX has more entries but the scale is smaller than the ebl.
EBL goes from 0 msec to 3.900 msec. with 17 entries.
EEX goes from 0.488 msec to 1.952 msec with 25 entries.
What should I enter in the fields that are above and below information I have?
I'm sure this is much more common but I haven't found it through the wealth of information in this thread alone. It's a lot to absorb. I feel like such an infant tuning yet but I'm excited learning. Thanks!
What should I enter in the fields that are above and below information I have?
I'm sure this is much more common but I haven't found it through the wealth of information in this thread alone. It's a lot to absorb. I feel like such an infant tuning yet but I'm excited learning. Thanks!
Once the values that are known are filled in, graph the table. Then using the graph continue to same curve higher and lower. Basically extrapolate the data.
06-05-2020, 11:47 AM
