RBob

iTrader: (1)

We have been finding that the HP laptops with WIN 7 installed has the FTDI USB driver all messed up. On the CD for the FTDI USB to Serial cable are instructions (pdf file) on how to install the driver.

Get to the driver properties dialog and completely back out the current driver. Then install the driver from the CD. Note that the 'install' is done twice as there are two levels to the driver.

Can also get the latest driver and install instructions right from FTDI's website:

www.ftdichip.com

RBob.

trocustoms

iTrader: (1)

Thank you i will give it a try and report back

Thanks, Tim

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Any one?
Is there not a setting for "threshold" to throw a malf code for too high a map read during idle? I recalll this coming up once B4. 47 for MAP seems awfully high. Unless you have a large cam or VAC leak. I will look at the def file I use to see if I can spot the constant or table that I am refering to. If a VAC leak then need to find it.

Doober

There is.
MALF33 - MAP Hi BARO Limit (1bar)

There is also one for a 2bar MAP sensor if you have one. I had this malfunction when I first hooked everything up on mine and I didn't realize I was hooked to a ported vacuum (not full vacuum) source. I was getting the error and still being a total tuning noob I didn't know the MAP readings on the WUD were skewed because of this. I just maxed out the reading and haven't changed it back since... I'm sure if I ever have a MAP sensor problem though it will be evident, and I can just hook up with the WUD and see what's going on.

Doober

I also have a question... I have a '78 Malibu, and as many of you know some later G-Bodies came with TBI v6s. I have a TPI intake that I'm thinking about running on it one day. Granted I could just get a used TPI harness, I'm looking at my other options too. Is there any major advantage to the P4 over the regular EBL (outside what's listed on the site)?

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

There are some threads that may have started with the original thread/announcement of the P4 rollout. May answer that question. I would search P4/RBob

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

These past few days I've been driving around with my new homemade throttle body on the car and have had a couple of issues surface.

Idle RPM is unstable. On initial startup it will settle in around 800 or a little above with 10-15 IAC counts, but after driving around for a while, when I park it will sit at around 1000 at 0 IAC. Although this is probably a mechanical problem with the TB itself, is there anything in the EBL that could help remedy this?

High Idle. This one is definitely mechanical. Its sucking a lot of air past the throttle blades, but I'm gonna have to band-aid it for now. It will idle down (actually pretty smoothly) while in limp home mode during flashing, to about 600 rpm, so I know the engine can make it that low. I'm think SA is where to look for this. I see two tables, Idle High Compensation, and Idle High MAP Multiplier. The compensation table is degrees of spark retard vs difference from commanded idle RPM correct? I would increase the multiplier as well right?


The other issue I have is that the throttle is very "jumpy," its hard to hold a specific low %TPS position, and gradually increase engine RPM. It seems like as soon as I crack the throttle, it wants to be at 2500+ RPM. Anything I can do about this? Maybe Launch mode SA can be used to pull a little spark instead of adding it??


I should be experimenting with this tomorrow, so any ideas will be tried out then. Just getting a new calibration set up tonight. I got the VE tables back in line from the TB change, so AFR is good everywhere, now just gotta make it driveable.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

To reduce the idle speed via the calibration, can only reduce the SA.

Same for the jumpy engine coming off idle, less SA is less torque. Can zero out the LM SA table.

Jumpy coming off idle, a progressive throttle linkage will help. The newer TB's do this via a snail-shell for the throttle cable.

RBob.

LastC3

Hey guys .... thought I'd shoot you an update on our tuning adventure .... though a bit challenging, a whole lot of fun .... We're really getting into the power now .... have had to dump quite a bit of fuel on the top end as I have increased spark, globally as well as in the 80-100 map above 2400 ... but really starting to feel it come in .... my last learn indicated a couple of knocks in 95 map at around 4500 ... but was also running lean ... so will dump some additional fuel up there and see how it goes ...

I'm still getting AE jumpin in at idle when I put it in gear ... and hi map error .... but am going to increase idle just a bit ... should take care of that ...
so .. i've dropped the last run data dump and the .bin for y'll to take a look at .... let me know your thoughts ..... Very much appreciate your taking to time to check it !!!

I know the tables aren't pretty, but I don't think they'll get there with this cam .... but it sure is running good .... not yet where it can be ... but still happy with where we're at so far .....

lemme know ...........

John H

Pretty big cam your running with that low of vacuum at idle. Looks like you need more fuel at the top end. Your going lean and timing is being pulled because of knock. Also smooth out the VE tables. As for the AE jumping in at idle when you drop it into gear try setting your drive speed closer to your park speed. 725 RPM at op temp in drive is a bit low for a big cam.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

C3: I see you are not in CL per the datalog. Should not there be a "y" for CL or are using the WB input to ECU and running OL for VE Learn?

I see AFR 13.8 and WB 12.8. Is WB that which WB is reporting and 13.8 that which you are commanding?

LastC3

Thanks John ...... did adjust that idle as suggested .... appears to be helping some with that ..... it helps keep the MAP in check at idle as it relates to HI MAP .... need all the help I can get ..... Did some smoothing this morning from yesterday's data log and learn ... tuff to due with the valleys in both hi and low due to the cam .... but trying to keep transitions from cell to cell at a minimum at the same time not bothering those learned cells ... an yes ... boosted fuel on the top end ....
FYI .. i have my spark retard shut off for knock ..... and watching it very closely.
Took it on a cruise yesterday with the ACE crowd .... a couple of hours each way .... did really good on gas, but really got wimpy as we gained altitude .... (from Phoenix to Payson) ... so as it leaned out .... played less agressively .... but developed a slight header leak during the ride .... so getting that resolved this morning .... also had to do a little increase in VE at 60 Map and above at 2400 .... had just a bit of a dead spot during acceleration .....
I reset to go into closed loop this morning .... its going to interesting to see how that works ...
Will post up a new txt dump and VE/SA tables in the next day or so ....

Thx for the advise ..... will take all the recommendations I can get .......certainly on a learning curve here .....

LastC3

Hey Ron ..... hoping you'd have time to look at this ..... yes ... running OL for learns with WB ...
I think the command is set for around the 12.5 number .... RBob had suggested I increase that a bit also .... will do that this morning as well ........
thx sir ......

Doober

I made a drive from Oro Valley to Payson last year to get the Vortec heads I have on my truck... definitely lots of climbing!

LastC3

Hey guys ... decided to stay in OL this week to work out some top end issues ... we were dying out at 5k only to discover I hadn't done any work on the extended tables .....
So made quite of few gains this week .... but also raised a few questions ...
Am wanting to get "all In" with the timing at 2800 rpm ... but data log indicates I'm not getting there until around 3500 .... and would like to see that toward the end of 70 Map into 80 Map full on .... ??? Do I just continue to adjust the SA tables until I get there ... or is there another approach ...
In the zip file there is a .txt data dump which will indicate the results of these tables .......







Please not log during 12:00 Timeline the O2 (NB) is jumping around a bit ... is this normal .. should I be concerned .....how will it effect things once I go into CL ???
My idle as settled in pretty well ... but still seeing AE jump in when I put it in gear ... ???? would like to get that cured ....

Please let me know what you think ... am totally open to suggestions ... want to get into CL this next week .... and hopefully get ready for a couple of 1/4 mile runs .... just want to see what its doing ... get logs .. and prepare for the dyno runs ....

thx guys ......

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Just change the Main SA table.

For the low speed VE table need to flatten out the low load & RPM corner. Can see how to do it in the Intro to Tuning Part 2 on our site. Look for the only images on that page.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Almost stalled at the very end as the vehicle slowed down to a stop. The AFR went lean, I would manually add to the VE table in the 600 - 900 RPM, 80 - 85 +KPa area.

Also, to make the VE graphs easier to see can rotate them. Hold the CTRL key down and click and drag on a corner.

RBob.

John H

Need to get rid of the bathtub in the low speed ve table like this. Also what is your IAC reading at idle in park at op temp. Looks like you need to adjust that to. Get it down to about 10-15 steps.

Doober

Looking at everybody else's SA tables has me wondering, should I be upping to a higher grade of gas? Compression is supposed to be about 9.6:1, I have Vortec heads, and the cam is 212/218 @ .050, somewhat mild but low end torque is great. I can tip into the throttle and still feel it accelerate with the converter locked up in 4th at 45, with 28" tires and 3.08 gears (~1300rpm). I've considered going up about 5º on .050" duration but I don't want to lose the low end it has.


I also agree something is up with your VE, try to bridge the gap across that low valley, if the learns have placed your VE values in those high 30s to mid 40s values, there should be some semblance of a rough curve as rpms rise, similarly with KPa values.

I have a low spot on my low rpm VE that I'm getting for some reason, but my laptop's battery is in such bad shape it HAS to be plugged in otherwise it goes dead literally in less than a couple minutes. Once I get that replaced I plan on smoothing that area out - I have somewhat of a 'dead' spot just off idle as I accelerate. It doesn't fall on its face, it just feels like it starts off fine, then it acts like something has to catch up and it has power again, and I believe it's that low spot (see the dot on the graph).

John H

Doober,

The Vortec head SA table are much different than the older design heads. No need to up the fuel just have to find the right setting for you combo. There are some Vortec tables out there that you can compare to.
As for the low spot in the VE the cell's around it you may not have hit for corrections. Need to go in and smooth it out manually.
Are you running closed loop or open loop. I had the same problem when running closed loop and my AE was not right. Hit the gas on a roll and it would have a dead spot after hitting the throttle. The AE was to much and the closed loop was correcting. Hit the gas and it would go too rich, then it would go lean because it was pulling fuel.

Doober

It runs closed loop, but I haven't really paid attention to if it's only when in closed loop. I think a learn may have picked some of those values while cruising too.

Doober

Something else I was wondering about, I hadn't really thought about it 'til I read it today on FullSizeChevy.com... someone was asking about running an HEI distributor, something about MSD... anyway, the mid '80s computer controlled distributors popped into my head. Is it possible to use these with EFI? Far as I can tell/understand it simply moves the coil to the cap and gets rid of an external connector (between the module and coil). Am I thinking about this correctly?


If this is the case, I may get one for my truck, since it has an aftermarket intake, and I have yet to find an acceptable location to mount the external coil.

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

I'm gonna bring this back to life. I've finally had a chance to play around with this a bit.
The interface used between the Autometer Speedometer and the EBL ecm is a dakota digital signal interface unit.
Manual I use it here. www.dakotadigital.com/pdf/SGI-5B.pdf

Now Ive gone thru all 4 dipswitches and can't get the EBL Wud speedo to match the autometer gauge. Regardless of which postion I select it will match speed between 0-20... then as I increase the speed the autometer gauge reads higher than the WUD display. Example.. Autometer speedometer reads 40 and the WUD will read 20.... 60 and 30.

It always seems to be about half over the 20 MPH limit.
If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.
thanks

John H

What is the part number of the Autometer speedo. If I remember correctly the autometer hooks up directly to the speed sensor and is calibrated independent of the ECU. Thats the way mine is on my LT1 powered rockcrawler.

Doober

I did a little looking at a diagram for the mid '80s cars on Autozone's site, and the wire coloring is the same for all 4 wires on the in-cap HEI computer control distributors as the later small-cap distributor. I don't know if everything works the same internally though, just an FYI.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Yes, they will work. Need to add in a single connector on the EST/BYPASS wire. In the CCC cars you just unplugged the 4-wire connector, which on an EFI car would prevent the injectors from firing. Note that the early TPI cars and the 'vette through '91 used the large cap distributors.

RBob.

Doober

Awesome, that's great to hear I'm not against an in-cap distributor myself besides the size. Do you know why they changed the design?

Doober

Cool, I may look into that then. If I knew that I probably would've gotten one of those as opposed to a regular cap and avoid the external coil altogether.

RFmaster

Couple years ago I put together a handy cross reference comparing external coil HEI and CCC HEI harness. The 4 wire interface colors changes slightly depending on application, but its easy to figure out.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...ear-491-a.html

Post #8

LastC3

Wasn't sure what this would do ..... but the smoothing outside the corrected (learn) areas seems to help quite a bit ..... more learning aagain today even with the 100*+ temps .... running the CST a little high with A/C going .... but continue to gain on this ....
starting to see some slight KS during cruize areas, so we're getting close there .... still need some work in the 3500 RPM 90 Map with a bit of a bog ...
will post some new stuff tomorrow from today's fun in the AZ sun !!!!

Sure do appreciate y'll's input !!!!

Doober

Did you raise that valley on the low speed table? You're makin' me itch to mess with mine some more, but I can only do so much with a weak shifting transmission.

LastC3

Actually I lowered the outer edges (on the low side) ... I'm using the screen shots of the VE learn adjustments and the data log to go through to see where learn is giving me info, and if its correct .... then moving those areas that are not effected by learn to smooth .... not certain that's the right way of doing things .... but learn will continue to change that center area if I increase it just to make the table "look" pretty ..... but getting better transitions seems to help a lot as recommended ....
didn't get new info done today .... but am going on a rather interesting run tomorrow morning that should give in data all over the map ..... so will post those results late in the day ...

thx for asking ...... ~~hal

LastC3

Sorry for the delay in updating my progress ..... The following is the results from a great run through some tight curves and hills .... so learn showed up all over the map ...... Still in OL (( and yes ... I smoothed out the VE tables prior to the run)













Note .. a bit embarrassed with the dip in SA 70 map .... my bad ... but over all is this graph the way this table should look ????

Still getting no KS at all, so will be again increasing SA over all and in the 80-100 map 2400rpm and up .... still slow getting "all in" by 2800.

The High VE doesn't look like anything like the one I started with ... have I over done it with the smoothing activities ?????

You will see in the zip the text data at about 29:30 I went to 100 TPS starting at about 2200 RPM ..... note the map is not at 100 .... Is that a concern ????

Also experienced a bit of a bog from 3 - 4k RPM ... then pull increased quite a bit .... (( noticed that from the run up the mountain as well )) I this timing or ????

Still not satisfied that I've got the fuel and SA where it needs to be and power at PE still on the table ..... would like to get it totally trimmed prior to going into CL ..... any suggestions ???? (am still totally unsure of what I'm seeing in the dump logs that will help me make further improvements .... just an FNK ya know !!!

I've not yet did any dead stop WOT exercises as yet ... chicken I'd guess ... but don't want to beat on it too hard until everything else is the best it can be ..... It's running well .... cruise is the bomb ... and will work on fuel savings once we get into CL ...??????

I'm aware I may not be asking all the right questions .... but the purpose of these postings is to get your comments and recommendations for further improvement .... and for that a BIG Thank You ... its totally fun learning this stuff !!!

John H

Looks like you are still a bit conservative on the timing. Just increase until you get knock and then back off a bit. I remember you said you disabled knock. Not a good idea when you are tuning. I would enable it. As for the map not going to 100 look at your baro reading. It all depends on atmosphere/elevation. At 29:30 you are at 95 baro. Map should not go over that value unless there is a problem. At 29:32 there is a baro correction to 96. The map value should not go over the baro value. Also still looks like you are lean in the high end. You may need to increase fuel pressure. In the 29:3+ when you are at full throttle the commanded afr is 12.7 and the wideband is 13-15 range. What injectors are you running and at what pressure?

LastC3

thx for checking in John ..... KS retard has been cut off .... still seeing any sensor activity ....
Not really certain how far to push the timing .... the log shows up to 36-37 during PE ... can I push that further ????
Thx for the info on the MAP vs Baro .... make sense ....
Running advertised 90# injectors .... and 20# on the pressure ... haven't seen the injectors max out yet .... so will push more VE ....
I really feel like I need to get this all resolved prior to going into CL ..... am I on track here /???
Thanks again John for posting up .... I really thought this CFI project would spark a bit more interest then it has .... will continue to move forward utilizing the info that has been previously posted ....

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

I'm trying to determine if I have a tune or mechanical failure.

I put in all new AC components, had the system vac'd,leak checked,and filled.
Heres what happening, blows nice cold air.
I idle around 8-900 even when the AC is on, it does begin to drop my voltage a little. But stays running throughout my idle and in P/N.

Once I put the car into gear, my voltage drops more, steering all of a sudden grinds a bit when I turn side to side, then the car just stalls. There is a new belt on and doesn't appear to be slipping.

I did datalog this event
This is what I've noticed.... when A/C is on, IAC steps are slowly increasing 65-114. Around 100 is when I put the car into gear.. just before it stalls I get a prelimary Map HI malf code but no Check engine light.
Should I be looking into mechanical or tune?
thanks

RBob

iTrader: (1)

What stall convertor is in the car? If too tight it will place a drag on the engine with the higher idle speed.

Check to see what the SA is doing. As the load increases it may be dropping off. Which then makes it worse, and so on.

RBob.

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

Its a 388 with a 3200 stall. I will look into the SA tables

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

Wanted to add to this post. According to my datalog of this event happening my SA table is pretty consistant from idle AC off....to idle AC on....and idle,in gear with AC on. It ran between 24-30

I ran this again tonight and ran it the same way... this time however everytime it began to stall I would tap the gas pedal and keep it running without stalling.

So for my next question is there a table to adjust idle/AC/in gear?

John H

Post up a log of the issue. Maybe adjust the IAC - Idle Increase A/C on

RBob

iTrader: (1)

While in gear and A/C off:

IAC - Idle Speed: Drive

Idle increased by when A/C on:

IAC - Idle Increase A/C on

IAC bumped when A/C turned on to prevent engine speed from sagging:

IAC - A/C on Bump Steps

RBob.

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

Here is one

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Is this with the 2040 cam? Isn't that one is supposed to be computer friendly?

Need to increase this value to stay in cell 0 when at idle:

BLM - Idle Cell RPM Threshold

RBob.

dairy

Just bought the ebl and it works great but with a couple issues with the WUD
1. It doesn't display what gear im in.
2. In neutral when I go to rev it it doesn't go back to idle and sometimes actually increases rpm when I let off. I also get a ses and vss 24 malfunction code.

Anyone else have this problem?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Be sure this option is not checked:

Option Word 2 - Bit 7 - TCC

And this option is checked:

Option Word 2 - Bit 0 - N/V

You will also need to load the correct N/V ratios into this table:

N/V - Manual Trans Ratios

There is a post or two in this thread on how to figure out the N/V ratios. It is easy as they are gotten from a data log. It is basically the engine RPM divided by the MPH and reduced by 10%.

And be sure that the WUD preferences dialog is set for a stick.

This could be any number of things. Is it bouncing off the stall saver? Getting a lean surge? Throttle cable or TB sticky?

Try disabling async injector mode and see if that helps. Set the two values in this table to 0:

INJ - ASync Transition PW - TBI Only

Does the WUD display a MPH value? If so and this is occurring during the reving session, it is likely an artifact of the idle not returning properly.

RBob.

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

No.. my cam specs are in my sig

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

My settings
IAC - Idle Speed drive 850 up to 1000
IAC-Idle Increase A/C on 50RPM
IAC A/C on Bump steps 5 steps

How do these settings look?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

That cam is right on the edge for closed loop idle. One item I noticed in the log file is that the idle and IAC held until the ECM went closed loop. The INT never moved from 128, and the proportional gains weren't forcing a good oscillation. The only real difference here is that the commanded AFR was leaned out some.

However, I didn't see any difference in either the NB or WB reported AFR. Which is typical for a cam that is right on the edge for closed loop.

But with the slightly leaner commanded AFR the idle RPM decreased IAC started to increase.

Set the forced open loop idle flag and see how it is:

Option Word 1 - Bit 2 - OpIdl

As far as the parameters you used, if it works that you are good to go.

Note that you may need to open the throttle blades a bit to bring the warm idle, no load, IAC steps down to between 20 & 30.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Also wanted to mention, if you want VATs enabled in the ECM set this flag:

Option Word 2 - Bit 6 - Vats

We don't set it even in the f-body TBI calibrations. A lot of folks using the EBL are doing engine swaps into non-VATs vehicles.

RBob.

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

Heres where I'm at. I've made my adjustments to the IAC.. the datalog below shows the adjustment made then trying the AC

I also readjusted my TPS to .545 volts.. again I ran a datalog after the adjustment was made

The third log is after I made the change to the flag for OpIdl