Doober

Are you saying it's a wideband and the afr drops to 0? If so that means it's getting way too much fuel. Have you done any VE learns to see what changes it makes?

camarorsssss

iTrader: (2)

No it's not wide band currently. If it is dropping to zero it is rich not lean on a narrowband o2? I also noticed that my pressure drops off with increased throttle instead of increasing as it is a vacuum referenced regulator.

Doober

Regardless of how things are currently a wideband would be very beneficial, especially since you have a supercharger.

Since the TBI regulators are very simple, I'm kind of doubtful it's that if pressure drops, then picks back up. I would look more at the supply side of the fuel system - lines, filter and pump. If the pump can't supply the volume then it drops, same with the filter. I think the factory pressure line is 3/8", which is good for up to around 500hp I believe.

camarorsssss

iTrader: (2)

Yeah I'm looking into the tt-1 wideband from dynamic efi. Currently i am rung a tpi pump and the fuel filter is about 4 years old. I think my regulator is causing me some issues as I never had this problem before the supercharger and switching regulators. But am I reading my 02 sensor right as it increases in voltage it's richer and closer to 0 is leaner?

Dominic Sorresso

R U using a 2 or 3 bar MAP?

camarorsssss

iTrader: (2)

2 bar map sensor.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Yes, NB O2 leaner is lower then 450 mV, richer is above that.

About the FP, if the gauge is liquid filled and under the hood, it will only show the correct FP when cold. As the gauge heats up the displayed FP will drop.

With a VRFPR the FP usually drops as you rev an un-loaded engine up. This is due to the MAP dropping.

If the throttle is quickly blipped, the FP should go up for an instant then drop as the engine builds RPM.

RBob.

camarorsssss

iTrader: (2)

Ah ok well that explains a lot. I will try to quickly give the throttle a snap and see what happens. as far as solving my bog though I can't seem to resolve it as well as my injectors going static at wot and at this point my high speed ve table is up in the 80-90 range above 70 kpa.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

With the injectors going static, and the AFR is not too rich, need more fuel. Adding to the VE table will only open the injectors longer, but they will still be static (> 100% DC).

RBob.

camarorsssss

iTrader: (2)

basically increase my fuel pressure to prevent the injectors from going static and rework my ve tables.?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

After changing the injector flow the BPC vs VAC table needs to be changed. Yes to more fuel pressure.

RBob.

camarorsssss

iTrader: (2)

increased the fuel pressure and reduced my high speed ve table and it seemed to help but injectors are still up around 85-90%dc so ill increase the fuel a little bit more. The lag/bog problem between 2k-3k rpm is still there, albeit not as bad since adjusting timing and addiing fuel but hasnt cleared up. What could cause the rpms to drop a few hundred rpms and the o2 to drop to near 0 but only at 25-35% tps?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Might be time to get a fuel pressure transducer and log it. Nothing worse then going in circles because the fuel pump, fuel delivery, is funky. BTDT. And another boosted EBL user has been going through the same thing for some time. Two bad fuel pumps in a row. Completely different GTA now that it has a good fuel pump.

RBob.

camarorsssss

iTrader: (2)

Ok I'll look into it thank you. I am going to try switching regulators first I think and go back to the adjustable one attached to the throttle body and see if that changes it. I am leaning towards the regulator being the issue.

Doober

Bob, has anyone ever gotten ahold of you about running one in a G-Body? I know liquidh8 has one, we both post pretty regularly on MalibuRacing.com.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I know of a couple in g-bodys. IIRC, one is running a 502 BBC with MPFI on it.

RBob.

camarorsssss

iTrader: (2)

replaced the garbage external regulator with a stock adjustable regulator set the pressure to 22lbs and although the car was very lean the car no longer ahd the bog/lag at part throttle. Took apart the external regulator i was using and found this...


the diaphragm is just a piece of plastic the the springs pushes against. that is what i get for buying a cheap regulator. The regulator was causing the pressure to drop like 5 psi under throttle and the pressure wasnt steady it would bounce around. after putting the stock regulator back in pressure is steady and doesnt move under throttle .

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

Something I've noticed this past year.
In the summer when the tempertures where higher say above 60 degrees my idle AFR run rich say 12.1 / driving would be more like 15.5

As fall set in and the outside temperature dropped my idle is more like 13.5 and driving would be 14.5-15

I was looking at the tables in tunerpro.. I was looking for something like IAT/Coolant vs AFR? Could someone point me in the direction to look?
thanks

RBob

iTrader: (1)

If this is during open loop look at the "Open Loop - AFR vs RPM & VAC" table. Which is further modified by the "Open Loop - AFR Multiplier vs CTS" table.

RBob.

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

This is during Closed Loop

RBob

iTrader: (1)

In closed loop the actual AFR is controlled by the O2 window. There is a set of parameters for idle, then a set of three tables for when not in idle. See the '8746/'7747/'8063 section of Chapter 5 in the Tuning Guide Book sticky. There is a write up on how it works.

Note that the EBL idle is different then in that write up.

RBob.

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

I'll read thru those again and look again for idle AFR in EBL. I was thinking I needed to look more at CTS or IAT for this problem, since I thought it was more of a outside air temp issue.

xch3no2

Summer air has less o2 density, like going up in elevation, but caused by temperature.

I didn't find a solution. I would try working with the IAT/CTS Blend Filter but don't see this as it's real purpose.

Napster134

Been having an issue similar to camarorssss although I think it may be related to AE but not sure.

If I'm cruising and or coasting at say 40mph, TPS under 10, I give the engine a small throttle stab to get up to speed a bit, up to about 25-35 TPS, the engine wont really respond.

Instead the WB goes lean, up to about 18-19, MAP goes to about 90-100 then it starts to pop out of the TBI if I keep the thottle still long enough .... If I want to get the engine out of the bog, all I have to do is give it a whole lot more TPS then it will get out of the bog and take off again.

Doesnt seem to happen as bad when I'm in open loop.

I think my WB is trying to compensate for this bog as can be seen in my low speed VE tables but not sure.

20.39 21.57 23.53 25.88 28.63 32.16 35.29 38.04 40.39 42.75 47.84 55.29 61.96 61.18
21.18 22.75 24.71 27.06 29.80 32.94 35.29 38.43 40.00 43.53 51.37 57.65 63.14 61.96
22.35 23.92 25.88 28.63 31.37 34.12 36.47 38.43 39.22 44.71 58.43 65.49 64.71 63.92
23.53 24.71 27.45 30.20 33.33 36.08 36.86 40.00 38.82 40.78 54.51 60.78 67.06 66.27
24.71 25.88 28.63 32.16 34.90 35.69 39.22 39.22 39.61 40.00 47.84 60.78 68.63 69.41
25.88 27.06 30.20 33.73 36.08 37.25 40.39 38.43 40.78 41.18 43.92 64.31 71.37 72.55
26.67 28.24 31.37 34.51 36.08 41.18 38.04 40.00 41.18 41.18 45.10 66.67 72.94 75.29
27.45 29.02 32.55 35.69 32.94 35.29 37.65 39.61 41.57 45.88 52.55 71.37 68.63 78.43
27.84 30.20 34.12 36.08 33.73 39.22 42.75 46.67 53.73 60.00 75.69 80.78 85.88 87.84
29.02 31.37 36.47 33.73 38.82 62.75 67.45 75.69 95.29 99.22 99.22 99.22 100.00 89.41
29.41 31.76 35.69 37.25 44.71 63.92 76.47 82.75 99.61 100.00 100.00 100.00 100.00 92.16
29.41 32.55 35.29 39.61 41.96 50.59 47.45 54.90 62.75 78.43 97.25 92.16 99.22 96.47
30.20 33.73 38.04 41.96 46.67 50.20 47.06 47.06 52.55 56.47 67.06 77.25 87.84 92.94
30.98 38.82 38.82 50.59 49.80 52.55 49.41 50.59 53.73 56.08 59.61 69.02 77.65 81.18
30.98 39.61 41.57 54.90 48.24 50.98 50.20 50.98 53.33 57.25 61.18 68.24 70.59 78.82
34.51 41.57 47.45 54.51 51.76 48.63 51.37 52.55 56.08 58.04 60.78 67.06 67.06 79.22
36.47 42.35 50.98 52.94 53.73 49.41 52.55 54.90 56.47 57.65 60.39 65.49 65.49 79.61

RBob

iTrader: (1)

It is possible that the ambient temperature is affecting the O2 sensor. This for idle:

O2 - Idle O2 Window Terms

Then for off idle:

INT - Rich O2 (Upper)
INT - Lean O2 (Lower)
INT - Mean R/L

It may also be that the fuel composition is changing.

When in closed loop the ECM commands the stoich AFR. Then adjusts via the fuel trims targeting the value from the above tables.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Either there isn't enough AE or the fuel pressure is dropping off.

RBob.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

I exibit the same issues in summer with a rich (locked OL) A/F at idle. I am using stock L03 EBL tables for coolant compensation and IAT vs coolant blend values. OL main table is 14.3(stoich E10) whereas stock is 14.7. It almost seems I should modify that table(IATvsCool) but I am unsure which way to do. I see IAT values about 100-110dF max when outside temp is 85dF at cruise speeds of 65 mph. Come a cool day at outside temp 65dF I see IAT around 85dF.

Which way to go to enlean my A/F for that formentioned table?

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

Ron, I think you and I are looking at the same table. IAT/CTS blend filter. My problem is I don't have the slightest clue as what to do with it.
GmSec or the %ofC.

psmith757

i just finished my t56 swap and i wired up my sgi5 speedo converter box and it wont work. do i need to change something in the ebl?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Shouldn't need to change anything. The output from the SGI box needs to be the 2K PPM digital signal.

Connect it in place of the stock VSS input to the ECM, pin A10.

RBob.

psmith757

So should i just set the little on off buttons on the box to a 2k ppm signal?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Use OUT5 from the SGI box, that is the 2K PPM OC (open collector) output.

The switches need to be set to match the input. Switch one likely needs to be set for high speed (off). Switch 2 may be either (sensitivity), try low first (ON).

Odds are that #3 & #4 need to be off. The documentation is confusing though. And in some cases incorrect.

RBob.

psmith757

So i should put the two wires from the ecm in the out5 and out4?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

With the EBL Flash ECM there is only one VSS input wire. Which is pin A10. Wire the SGI OUT5 to it.

RBob.

psmith757

Do u know what color it is? I think its either purple or yellow maybe

Doober

So I'm 99% (aka barring any emergency, major event, etc.) on picking up a 2.8/5-speed '87 Fiero tomorrow morning, and it has a port-injected 2.8 L44 code engine. Any idea if/why this would/wouldn't work?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General..._V6_engine#L44

RBob

iTrader: (1)

What EBL ECM do you have? And what year car/trans is it?

Mini-sig states TBI set up.

RBob.

psmith757

It use to have a 700r4 and i dont kno which ebl flash

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The purple and yellow wires are from the vehicle speed sensor (VSS) and go to the SGI box as inputs.

With this being a '91 TBI there is a 4-out buffer box. This box (yellow or white under passenger side of dash) buffers the stock VSS. Then sends a pulse stream to the ECM, speedometer, and cruise control.

The ECM & cruise require a 2K PPM signal, the speedo requires a 4K PPM signal.

RBob.

psmith757

Ok but im still confused on how to wire this thing up?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Find the 4-out buffer box.

Then from the SGI-5 document:

The pink/black wire from it goes the the SGI-5 "PWR" terminal
The black/white wire from it goes the the SGI-5 "GND" terminal

The yellow wire from it goes the the SGI-5 "Sig. In" terminal
The purple wire from it goes the the SGI-5 "Sig. GND" terminal

The brown (pin F) wire from it goes the the SGI-5 "OUT5" terminal (ECM)
The brown (pin C) wire from it goes the the SGI-5 "OUT4" terminal (speedometer)

The red wire from it goes ... for the cruise control, which is 2K PPM. There isn't another output on the SGI-5 for it. Would probably work if doubled up with the ECM's VSS input.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The EBL Flash ECM with the Port Mod or the EBL P4 Flash ECM will run that engine.

RBob.

psmith757

ok so then were should the two wires from the t56 vss conector go?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

To the two wires that originally went to the 700R4 VSS (yellow & purple, keep them twisted).

RBob.

psmith757

ok should i splice purple to purple and yellow to yellow or put all four together?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I would go with the first option.

RBob.

psmith757

Ok i found the box but there are two yellow. Which one and there is no red? And there are two brown. Ones tanish

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

I had a new transmission built. The 4th gear switch is set up as N/C

Would this be option word 2 bit 5 in tunerpro?
If so would it be checked or unchecked?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Yes: Option Word 2 - Bit 5 - HiGrH

Easiest to use the WUD, key-on, engine-off, foot on the brake, place shifter into any position except park or neutral. If the WUD displays 'D' you are good to go. If it displays 'OD' then flip the option flag.

IIRC how this works, with an N/C switch the flag needs to be checked. HiGrH is for high when in 4th. An N/C switch will be low in 1,2 & 3, then open for a high signal when in 4th.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

This help?

RBob.