RBob

iTrader: (1)

No, that connection on your laptop is a modem.

RBob.

Doober

OOPS

Doober

So a thought I had... what about using an OE Vortec intake and controlling the injectors with the EBL? I don't know for sure what type they are, or what resistance though. My understanding from research/reading is they should be able to support ~400hp with the stock ones, but the 'Multec2' upgrade I've seen a little of should flow a little more, plus they have an adjustable regulator I believe.

I just found a PDF on the injectors... looks to be 12 ohms. Is this something the EBL could handle?
http://www.racetronix.com/Manuals/In...ultec2_inj.pdf

psmith757

dang well it still wont flash the bin. im stuck

Doober

Is the WUD showing activity when you turn the ignition on? If not you may need to select the correct COM port.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Not giving us much to go on. Screen shot of the error?

Have you gone through the latency setting? See post #1549 a page back. What did the last screen of that procedure show?

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I haven't done any work with the CPI set ups. Although, I imagine that if they are saturated injectors that an EBL system set up for MPFI would work. I recall that the original CPI systems used a single injector, while the 'fix' for that contraption was a bank of injectors. One for each port.

RBob.

Doober

That's what the Multec injector setup is. It's a kit that replaces he original poppet injectors with individual ones, and supposedly they are capable of running up to 100psi, though from what I've read they don't have a lot of control over 75psi or so.

psmith757

its showing activity. ive been datalogging and doin ve learns and saving em but i jus wont let me flash them new bin files.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

What did you find when you went through the latency set up?

RBob.

psmith757

what is the latency setup?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Copy & paste from post #1549 a page back:

If you are using a USB/Serial adapter cable follow the instructions at this link:

www.dynamicefi.com/USB2SerialSetup.php

If at the last screen there are sliders in place of a latency setting, that cable isn't going to work. It uses the Prolific chipset which either works all of the time, works part of the time, or works none of the time.

Recommend using the USB/serial adapter cables that use the FTDI chipset.

RBob.

psmith757

i did the latency setup but in the advanced settings all i had was the usb transfer sizes

RBob

iTrader: (1)

No FIFO sliders? If not I'm not sure which chip-set that cable is based on. However, it most likely is not going to work no matter what settings are used. Although can try different USB transfer sizes and see.

As mentioned the FTDI chip-set based cables are the way to go.

RBob.

squirrel

Had been having problem with SA and RPM's going nuts, up and down, nothing steady in any areas. Had been doing this for awhile, got to be such a hassle with the tuning, I gave up, started having more interest in my Bug. Got back in to it and realized an excessive amount of play at the gear end of the Dist. shaft, after 1 of a few changes of the PU Coil. Remembered this from a while back, but not knowing the inter- workings of the dist. moved on, kept chasing the jumping with the ICM, PU Coil wires etc. goin broke. Then I noticed the Stator, had a very slight movement on 1 of the changes, Bingo, loose on the dist. shaft. Thanks to DENN_SHAH, here, who sent a couple links abt. dist. I have solved my problem, Thank you again DENN_SHAH and 3gen for a great site, and allowing non 3 gen owners to inquire abt. problems.

Doober

I've noticed my idle hunting issue is back, and I'm not quite sure why... the only things I can think of that I've changed are the timing and the injector offset compensation (injector timing vs. voltage). I think closed loop has something to do with it, I'll see about a short log sometime here in the future.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Flatten the VE tables around the idle RPM. That is make values same in surrouding cell you idle in. Lock SA-Idle(flag).

Doober

Yep, I already did that with both the SA and VE tables. I tried to do a short learn at idle but the MAP reading was so erratic it couldn't make any adjustments.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Threre are also some compensation tables for SA I recall. I forget their names but it tames down corrections to idle for RPM that may cause bouncing. Some set commanded RPM at say 700(P + D) and then use the throttle stop screw to take away IAC control by setting at 750 manually. IAC steps then are zero.

I idle OL. You may want to try that as well. I then have the VE at that cell(s) rich to force idle A/F at 13.8/1. Lean will sometimes cause surging. I also disable asynch. Worked for me as I have large injectors at 23 lbs FP.

Doober

The strange thing was I had lowered pressure to 18 from 25 with 80lb. injectors, and it seemed to idle fine in closed loop after that. Recently I messed a little with he inj. comp. to help address a light throttle (~20% MAP) surge that only happened on slight downhill grades where throttle was needed to retain speed. After that and messing wih the timing a little (aiming for snappier throttle down low and better overall response) I started having this idle issue again. I lowered the inj. comp. again but it hasn't helped, which leads me to believe it may be timing related.

Cflick

Interesting....

I have that, but I believe it to be lean surge, as mileage goes WAY up while it's doing that, to about 3x what it normally runs.

For me, it was too much idle spark compensation.
I'd reduced it to about 25% of what it was, and it smoothed out quite a bit.

Doober

Something else that's somewhat strange is while it's under load at idle (AC on or in gear) it doesn't do it at all.

squirrel

Ronny, could you please explain the Lock SA-idle, it's purpose, and what you would target to lock it out? Mine, 0010 bin, is locked?, set, at 20.04. Stock 350 Vortec, GMPP intake, stock TBI, 1 in. spacer, 17lb. FP. Thanks Having these same issues as well, right down to the AC on, smooth.

Doober

Part of mine originally was due to the low injector pulse width, which was a result of the higher fuel pressure... they didn't have very good control over fuel at those rates. Once I lowered pressure, pulse width came up to a reasonable level and idle evened out. I think it's still on he edge of idling smooth and having too much pressure.

I'm still trying to unravel the mystery of timing... I think there is something in the bin that affects timing besides the main SA table, because I have timig set to around 16* at idle and the EBL was reading about 26*. I remember there was a table of SA vs CTS, and it's set to 9.xx across the board.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

If this option flag is checked:

Option Word 2 - Bit 1 - IdlSa

The idle SA will be from:

SA - Idle State SA

Otherwise it is from the main SA table.

Which will be further modified dependent upon the error between the desired idle speed and the actual idle speed by these tables:

SA - Idle High Compensation
SA - Idle Low Compensation
SA - Idle High Map Multiplier
SA - Idle Low Map Multiplier

Also, make sure that this table and the bias match:

SA - IAT/CTS Comp Bias SA
SA - IAT/CTS Compensation

Unless of course you are using IAT/CTS compensation table.

RBob.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Doober: Did you lock synch for fueling? Before I did so I had similar issue as you at light load steady TPS% low MPH.

I idle at 1.9 msec last I looked.

Locking SA disallows wander to other accompanying cells in SA table. I am at 19 for idle currently.

When you turn on AC watch the SA to see if it changes. AC loads the engine so there may be change in SA cell or fueling via change in VE cell. If it moves to a fatter VE cell and idle better that may tell you something. same on surging at low cruise. Watch that datalog. Lock on SA may disallow
SA change.

Surging is sometimes lean. do you see INT(adding fuel) drop during event? Maybe a BLM drop over a long idle?

On prolonged deacceleration I see the BLM lock at 128. My WB goes rich then leans out to 13.9 or so as at 0 TPS% I am OL when I let off gas..

psmith757

how do i make the fans come on earlier. cuz now when they come on its already overheatin and it cant get back down.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

In the stock system the fan is controlled by the cylinder head temperature switch and the A/C system.

To put it under ECM control use one of the AIR solenoid wires, the BRN in C2 is the one to use. Remove it from the AIR solenoid connector and wire it to the same wire that is on the head temperature switch. Leave the other end in C2 as that is the fan control output.

The switch is located between #6 & #8 spark plugs. Don't be surprised to find the connector fried which may be causing the fan to not turn on.

RBob.

Napster134

Just a quick question in regards to the TT-1 WB sensor. I've been thinking about purchasing the controller/sensor in order to make my tune better. Just wondering, what exactly would this help with and why do I always hear its much easier to tune with a WB?

From what I understand, the WB O2 sensor would be located farther down on the exhaust and can read the A/F mixture better than the NB.

I'm guessing that's what the WB setting is for in the learn settings within EBL?

Cflick

There are extensive articles on this site with details, but the short version goes like this.
The NB can determine that AF ratio is 14.7:1 or it's richer, meaning anything between pure gasoline with no air at all up to 14.69:1 or leaner, meaning anything between 14:701 and no fuel at all of any kind.
So if you're targeting, say 13.5:1 for acceleration, it's easy to see that the NB is worthless for this.

Gary Anderson

iTrader: (2)

OK, my turn for some help. '7730 EBL in a '90 Camaro stickshift car.

How does the idle speed control work?

I start the car and the motor idles at whatever the idle speed vs. coolant temp. calls for (800-900). I'm all good with that. Then I back out of my driveway and pull up to the stop sign at the end of my street and the motor is now idling at @1500-1600. It will stay there for a couple seconds and then slowly return to the previous idle speed. If I roll the stop it will idle at the elevated idle speed until I come to a complete stop. It's like the ECM needs to see the VSS return to 0 mph once before it resets the idle speed. I've already left home, rolled a couple stops, caught a couple green lites and gotten on the freeway without completely stopping and driven for an hour and come to the end of an off ramp with the motor idling high. Then once you completely stop the idle will come back down to normal.

Anyone ever notice this? Are there some settings I have wrong in my bin? Idle learn or something like that? Thanks for any help.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

This table:

IAC - Minimum Idle Steps

Reduce the steps in that table to be about 5 - 10 steps higher then what the engine wants. Look at a data log where the engine is warming up each time you stop and the idle comes down. You want to use the IAC steps once the idle is at the proper speed.

Then populate the above table with those values + 5 - 10 steps.

If you look at the IAC steps (WUD) with a warmed up engine you will probably find them on the low side. Which is why the values in the above table need to be reduced. It may be helpful to close the throttle blades a little to get the IAC steps in the 25 - 30 step range.

This can help TPI/MPFI engines with better air distribution at idle.

The purpose of the above table is to provide a target for the IAC steps as the engine is warming up and being driven. Once set up it will eliminate the high idle you are getting. And yes, need to be at 0 MPH for idle speed control.

RBob.

Gary Anderson

iTrader: (2)

RBob,

I had always thought it was beneficial to have low IAC steps at idle. My throttle body is opened so that my warm engine idles at @ 5 IAC steps. Or was this only the case for TBI engines?

I will open the throttle some and try to more closely match the minimum idle steps like you mentioned. Now that I think about it, my car did this with the stock ECM also. Thanks for your help.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

There has been confusion over IAC steps at idle. It is the TBI set ups that benefit from low IAC steps. In the range of 5 - 10 warmed up, no load.

While TPI set ups (most MPFI for that matter), like more steps. Some intakes such as the LT1 have an air passage from the IAC port that sends idle air to each individual port close to the head ports.

RBob.

Gary Anderson

iTrader: (2)

RBob,

You could be the dude!

Closed throttle body to idle @ 30 IAC steps warm and set minimum iac steps to closely follow that. Car is much smoother from standing start clutch engagement and through the gears. Drives like a different car.

I'll likely have to tweak minimum iac steps at different temps a little to get that sorted out but the difference in amazing. Thanks. You got any other secrets up your sleeve?

zsmoore68w

I noticed something while playing around with my new toy yesterday. on my WUD, my TPS only goes up to about 87% when i'm forcing the pedal into the floor. anyone else have this sort of problem or know what to do about it? I just replaced my TPS so I don't think the part is defective. there is a small, slight kink in my throttle cable near the throttle body. would that be significant enough to throw off my pedal/throttle body relation?

Cflick

I made my TPS sensor "adjustable" just for that problem at one time. ( before I knew that I didn't need to do that )

The important part of the question.............
When you've got the loud pedal glued to the floor, pressed down with a hydraulic ram, can you open the throttle blades at the throttle body any more ? If so, how much ?

When you manually open the throttle at the throttle body, all the way to mechanical stop, what does the WUD show you at that point for TPS% ??

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

I believe there is a "filter" in the def file that slows down the speed of closure of the IAC for maybe smooth transitions. Reducing those number(s) will allow the RPM to drop more quickly. Not sure what it is called but may be listed in IAC-???. TP usually has the IAC stuff grouped together. May be in constants. I would look but at the office.

Doober

A few I've found:

DFCO - Decay Multiplier
A fuel reduction term used to decay out the fuel PW upon entering DFCO. Used to smooth the transition into DFCO.

IAC - TF Decay Filters
Throttle Follower decay filters. A lower value will decay out TF steps slower then a high value. The Low, Medium, and High refer to the vehicle speed. See the 'TF Decay MPH breakpoints' entry for the speed thresholds.

IAC - TF Decay Delay
A delay before TF steps are decayed out.

IAC - Steps Decay Filters
Three IAC steps decay filters values. A lower value provides a slower decay. The 'Norml' is used for all decays except DFCO and Stall Saver. The 'DFCO' decay is used to decay out decel fuel cutoff steps. The 'StlSv' filter is used to decay out stall saver steps.

IAC - TF Decay MPH Breakpoints
The vehicle speed break points for which TF decay filter too use. The Medium TF filter is used when the vehicle speed is between the Low and High settings.

There are a few others for idling down, but they're not vehicle speed-related... like if you poke the throttle a little, how long it takes to idle back down, and the rate rpms drop back down.

zsmoore68w

when i open the throttle body by hand, the WUD shows my TPS at 96% max. i can't get it to hit 100% no matter what i try. and there is some play at my throttle body when the pedal is all the way to the floor. should i look into getting a new throttle cable? or is this a problem with the pedal assembly itself?

also, another thing that is bothering me is ever since i installed my EBL P4 system, my car doesn't like to start up on the first turnover. before the swap, i could flip the key over and let it go without pause and it would start right up. now i have to turn the key, hold it for a couple of seconds while it tries to start, let it go, then turn it over again before it'll start. kind of frustrating. but i'm pretty sure that just has something to do with the small leak from the fuel rail that my mechanic left there when he replaced my injectors. good thing he's cheap, or i'd be more than a little irked.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Is this with cable removed? If not remove clip and give that a try.

As far as delay to start. May be cranking fuel. check the .xdf. Dont over do it !

Doober

As far as your throttle issue, it sounds like there isn't enough cable travel for the throttle body. Do you have an adjustable throttle cable bracket? If so you may need to move it backwards (away from the TB). Disconnect the throttle cable and see if you can pull it forward past the throttle body linkage. If you can you could probably adjust it to get the last of your throttle travel.

squirrel

Been reading abt AE tuning, trying to grab a little more info. Have a total, falls on its face, thing going on as it shifts into 2nd gear. In the AE Map PW, the usec, do I increase the values to gain more AE or lower the #'s. Thanks

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

increase

xch3no2

If you see AE & it's too lean, adjust PW.

If you don't see AE quick enough adjust deltas, filters.

Edit: Smaller deltas and filters are greater/quicker,.. larger filters are slower/last longer, in a quantitative sense...less.

squirrel

Thanks folks, I'll give it a try.

squirrel

Can't get tunerpro to save changes. Can change in the constants and will remain. Have made changes in the AE PW, the changes won't save, anyone with ideas. I updated to latest version this am. Since, is when this started, Thanks

RBob

iTrader: (1)

You may not be making enough of a change in the value. IIRC, the AE PW tables are set for 64 usec increments. So if you change it by 10 or 20 usec it will revert back to the original value.

RBob.

squirrel

Thank You

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

I ran a dyno the other day. I was fortune to have been able to datalog during this. I noticed my TCC indicator light in EBL turns on at 48 mph (lock up), then at 68 mph it would turn off ( un-lock).

Isn't the convertor suppose to stay locked?

LoGR ok to lock .... set to 48 mph
LoGR ok to unlock ....set to 42 mph
HiGR miles to Unlock....set to 44 mph
TCC-forced lock .... set to 100 mph

I'm not findind a scaler or table that is telling the TCC to unlock at 68mph, so why would it be unlocking?
thanks