Binder

I hope this hasn't been answered as I can't find it.......Is there a way to find out which bank is active in the EBL flash? If I turn on the WUD and open the "flash" screen will it first go to the current used bank? I have programs on all 8 banks but don't remember which on is in use....

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Open the WUD and leave it on the main display screen. Connect the data logging cable and key-on, engine-off.

In the upper left the PromID is shown, which is directly from the calibration.

The current bank is shown a few lines down as the "Flash Bank:" number.

Can also open the Bank Select window (ALT-D, B). That will show the current bank.

Using the Bank Select can switch through the banks and observe the PromID. It will show the PromID of the selected calibration bank.


The Flash display picks up where it was the last time. The bank, BIN names, check boxes and all are saved in the config file. So each time the WUD is re-executed the last values are set up again.

RBob.

Binder

Great info. Thanks again!

SSMinnow

I am using EBL with an older vehicle that has a Torqueflite 727. Since I am not using a TCC does that setting effect anything? Should I just set it to manual and forget it?

Thanks

88´TransAM

My engine is a L03 with ported throttlebodyunit, edelbrock 3704 intake manifold 46mm bored, ported 081´tpi-heads, headers, open filter element, lt1-cam, edelbrock valve springs, edelbrock timing chain, acc bosshog nightstalker 2 torque converter 2200-2800 stall. My tranny is a th700r4 with kevlar band, raybestos clutches, transgo reprogramming kit stage 2. The rearaxle is stock limited slip. My fuelpump is the acd241, tpi-stock. Fuelpressure is 18 PSI. Initial spark advance is 4° BDTC.
My ECM is an EBL ! I am very happy with it, it runs very great. I think, a little bit better like a stock 5,7 TPI (L98). I changed the BPCs in BPC-BPC vs. VAC and BST-BPC vs. BOOST. I changed AE-TPS PW and AE-MAP PW.

But the main spark table is stock. How can I change it ? Now, I multiplied all cells with 1,1. I´ve got 10% more spark advance except the cells with 0°. Is this the right way ? What can I do ?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Either way will work. If there is a "SA - TCC Locked Retard" table then that should be zero'd out (set all entries to 0).

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

There are several calibrations for a TPI iron headed engine. With the change to the '081 heads I would copy & paste the Main & Extended SA tables over to your current calibration.

You can do this in TUnerPro by setting up the TPI cal as a compare BIN.

RBob.

88´TransAM

Where can I find these several calibration ? Should i copy the sa tables from a stock tpi-bin and paste it to my tbi-bin ? Sorry, i don´t understand.
And how should I adjust the initial spark advance ? 6° BTDC like the tpi or 0° TDC like the tbi ?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

There are 30-some calibrations on the CD that came with the EBL Flash. There is also a text file that lists where each originated from.

The initial/base spark timing isn't critical. As long as the engine starts OK both hot & cold then that setting is good.

Then as long as the distributor base setting and the SA - Initial SA in the calibration match, nothing else really changes. So if you re-set the base timing from 0 BTDC to 6 BTDC, and change the calibration base from 0 to 6 BTDC, the overall engine-running timing stays the same.

RBob.

88´TransAM

Can I go with the EBL_F_1004.BIN 5.0l TPI, auto (port mod only) file for example or is this too much spark advance for my engine ??

ownor

iTrader: (5)

imho the stock tpi SA tables from the 1004.bin should be just fine. maybe you can even add some SA since your heads are ported and you're running the lt1 cam along with some intake/exhaust work.

Pre-Tuner

iTrader: (2)

I'm sure this has been asked before, but it's going to take me hours to find it, so I appologize in advance.

When doing VE learns in OL, should the open loop AFR CTS vs VAC be set across the board to 14.7?

If so, am I ever supposed to do any learns once I change it back?

Here's the reason I ask. I left the table alone and did a 45 minute learn with 0 smoothing factor under many conditions (hills, different gears, coasting, coasting down steep hills, etc) and when I got home I looked at my data. I had MANY odd spikes all over the place. For instance, at idle, my VE # went from around 38 to around 100, but I was getting 15:1 before I started, so I think 100 is not correct. The AFR CTS vs VAC is smooth, but maybe it's causing spikes by over correcting? I just don't know. I've done many VE learns before, but I've used a smoothing factor of 8, so any spikes would have been smoothed out.

Also, I've heard of valve overlap affecting the VE table. The cam is pretty mild, but I don't know where the effects happen or what it does exactly to the table.

Any ideas?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

A VE Learn via the WB compares the commanded AFR to the WB reported AFR and adjusts from that.

So no need to do anything out of the ordinary with the AFR vs CTS & VAC table.

The spikiness is rather normal. And as you mentioned the smoothing takes care of it.

However, the idle VE going from 38% to 100% is an issue. It may be from overlap, but it could also be from the WB unit not reporting correctly. Did the idle get rich after the VE was increased?

RBob.

Pre-Tuner

iTrader: (2)

I went out and let it idle for a while today, and it is pig rich. Idles at about 12:1. It's kind of strange, because it hasn't done this before when I use smoothing. You'd think with a smoothing factor of 8, there would still be a noticeable hump on the graph.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

You should always use some smoothing. Even if it is a low amount such as 2 or 3.

Also note that the graphing in TP can easily exaggerate the spikiness, or even the dips & valleys. The reason is that the Z axis (height) is based on the highest & lowest values in the table. After bringing up the graph, grab one corner and pull the value to 0, then grab an opposite corner and pull the value to 100%.

Note how everything flattens out. Just be sure to cancel out of the edit window as not to save those 'pulled' values.


As for the idle being at 12:1, unless the commanded is that rich the VE Learn should be pulling fuel. Also, be sure that the VE Learn CTS window is set OK. Don't want to be doing learns on a cold or over heated engine.

Do a log dump and both the commanded and WB AFR are in there, side-by-side columns. Maybe the commanded AFR during idle is too rich. I usually shoot for a 14.2 to 14.4 AFR during idle.

RBob.

Pre-Tuner

iTrader: (2)

I may have found part of the problem. The tuning I do is on a truck that I only drive when it's nice. Living in Washington State, there could be a lot of time between tunes. About 6 months ago, I did the Fast355 adjustment and advanced the injector timing. After that, it would stumble and die at cold idle, so I made the entire AFR table richer by about a point and a half and it seemed to take care of it. Maybe there is something else I should have adjusted, but I don't know what that would be.

Is the AFR table that comes with the EBL good the way it is for most people, or does it need adjusting?

For those reading that don't know, a member tried advancing the injector timing for a smoother idle and more top end. The injectors are fired off of the distributor, so you have to physically advance the timing at the distributor 10 degrees to get the injectors to fire earlier, then change the initial SA constant from 0 to 9.84 (10) to return the spark advance to normal.

ownor

iTrader: (5)

wow i never heard about this. is this a common procedure? sounds promising.. i guess i'll do some research on Fast355's posts about this.

MikeTBI

Hi Guys,
Maybe I have missed the information but is there some simple procedure to adjust AE and PE values?
Thanks,
Mike

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

PE optimal A/F is determined by use of a dyno and or .25 mile ET. I believe oil temp plays an important role. I am at 12.3 today. Dont know if that is optimal. Use of a WB can validate it actually is what you command in tune. If VE tables are spot on the PE should be as commanded.

AE I will suggest is best drivability. tune from rich to lean. Keep in mind there are several AE specific tables to tune with.

MikeTBI

Ok! Thanks for the info!!!

3rdGenFreak1227

Hats off to BobR and everyone posting ideas on this subject...I just installed the EBL flash last month and have had a blast tuning...I'm very new with it and am learning fast thanks to all your posts on here....

I just have one question...I have a stock 305 TPI and I get a slight surge sometimes at idle and its most noticeable when I'm decelerating mostly like when I'm going down a hill or coasting...its not an extreme surge...maybe a 200 RPMs or so...more of a nuisance than anything really...also it seems like when decelerating when I complete lift on the throttle it takes a good minute for the RPMs to drop...it just keeps pulling the car even at 0% thottle..makes it kinda hard to come to a stop when coasting down a hill...any ideas? Also any ideas where to set my Injector Flow Constant for stock 19lb/hr TPI injectors? That way I can get an accurate idea of my fuel mileage...

Also I'm a little confused as to what the BLM and INT terms mean...I have read quite a few pages of this forum and its still not sinking in...i apologize if this is a redundant question...thanks to all this is an AWESOME thread!

RBob

iTrader: (1)

For the not slowing down immediately on a throttle lift, check to see what the IAC is doing. This can be caused and usually is by the throttle follower (TF) closing delays. The table "IAC - TF Decay Delay" is a delay before the TF steps start to decay out. The table "IAC - TF Decay Filters" is how fast the TF steps are decayed out.

Note that too much spark timing during over-run will also cause the engine to keep pulling. But check the IAC TF stuff first.

Another thing, check if the ECM is going into DFCO mode. When in DFCO the IAC adds steps to prevent excess engine braking. Too many steps and the car just keeps on rolling. Simply reduce the steps 5 to 10 at a time until the vehicle feels right.

So check the data log to see what is going on first, then work on what the ECM is doing that is causing the car to keep on rolling.

Note that you can mark areas in the data log by tapping the space bar on the keyboard. Just be sure that the WUD is the top most window (or the Malf or Bank display).

For the MPG scalar, try twice the flow of one injector. Which is 38 #/hr.

The BLM is a long term fuel trim, the INT is a short term fuel trim. The value of 128 is neutral, less then is pulling fuel, greater then is adding fuel.

RBob.

3rdGenFreak1227

Thank RBob....yet again you have saved the day....they car is running excellent now btw...got all the kinks worked out and it is getting more responsive and better fuel mileage every time I do a VE learn...you created a great system...congrats...

I'll make those changes and report back

3rdGenFreak1227

That fixed it! Thanks alot RBob....also thanks for the clarification on the INT and BLM terms...makes alot more sense now...also I changed the Injector flow scalar to 38 and it seems more like actual...picked up some MPG so that always helps!

Also I suggested your EBL flash system to one of the guys at school today....seemed very interested...he has a 93 firebird with and LT1 setup....I told him to look into it and see if you offered a setup for his ECM....you should be hearing from him soon...

MikeTBI

I'm wondering about changing memory banks.
Is it really so that memory banks can be changed just by clicking bank tab in bank select window and new parameters are in service immediately?
And this changing bank procedure can be done even when motor is running?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

There are several reasons for having multiple banks. Flash and memory chips are no longer made in the smaller sizes, so the flash is available to use multiple banks. I almost did it with 16 banks, but felt that was a little too much to keep track of.

Banks can be switched seamlessly by clicking on a bank box in the flash bank window. The bank switch is synced to the ECM access of the flash memory. So it is instant and seamless.

The calibration parameters change at the same time the new bank is selected. If the engine is running the only change is that the calibration changed. No glitches, stumbling, or otherwise (unless the new bank's calibration is foobar).

Having multiple banks has other useful purposes. E85 users set up each bank for different levels of E. Can set up a bank as a valet or anti-theft calibration. While tuning I round robin through the banks, makes it easy to back up if required.

When I did the spark latency testing multiple banks were used. Having different latency tables along with flat SA tables. Started the engine on a normal cal, then switched between calibrations with the engine running.

RBob.

MikeTBI

Ok! Those are great examples to use memory banks. Thanks RBob!!

3rdGenFreak1227

Hey guys I have done quite a few VE learns here recently and have pretty much got the fuel really close to dialed in....although there is always room for improvement...I'm still getting alot of knock counts on acceleration tho...I usually do my datalogs and then subtract half of the peak spark retard from the main table...is this a good practice? Is there anywhere I can subtract SA during accel or do I just need to make the graph steeper in the main table? If so what is a good practice on doing so? Thanks guys!

3rdGenFreak1227

I attached a thumbnail of my main table SA graph that I have smoothed out...does it look reasonable for a stock TPI 305 w/auto trans setup? If not someone please point me in the right direction...need to get this accel knock straightened out...also the car just seems very sluggish on accel...to much AE maybe? thanks again guys...I new to this tuning stuff but its a blast!

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Removing half the amount of peak knock is a good start. It can also help to remove about 1/4 of the peak knock in the area right before where knock is reported.

Note that this only works for true knock. False knock and removing SA will result in a sluggish engine and lower MPG. So if pulling timing doesn't help then most likely is false knock. I prefer to pull plugs to check for knock.

Pepper flecks on the center cone is a sign of knock. However, it won't tell you were the knock is occurring. So a mix of false and real knock can be hard to track down.

If pulling timing gets rid of the knock counts then try some higher octane fuel with the previous SA tables. That should bring the performance back without the knock.

RBob.

Dominic Sorresso

Not to steal the thread but in the same vein, on LT-5s some tuners either ignore knock or disable the KS. Maybe with all the cams and chains, there's false knock, but some of these guys run quite a bit of SA. I was under the impression that better heads, and the LT5's are pretty nice, you should and can run less SA, not more. I'm running 28-29d at WOT and 21d for torque peak.

3rdGenFreak1227

one thing I did notice from the graph was the hard dip in SA in the higher RPM/higher KPA range...is this normal?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

IIRC the dip is at peak torque which with TPI is quite pronounced. This is during a time of peak cylinder pressure.

RBob.

3rdGenFreak1227

well I flashed that bin with the smoothed spark curve in today and added a degree in across the board to help with the sluggishness (I pulled a plug...no pepper flecks...no black carbon...she had to be running pretty close to perfect)...and WOW! what a difference...no more sluggishness thats for sure...its finally back to just about stock.

So as for a performance tune...where I'm looking for not so much fuel economy but a little more power...do I just lower my closed loop AFR and maybe my open loop AFR vs RPM&VAC table...do some VE learns...get the fuel right then get into timing? Obviously disabling highway mode, enabling launch mode things like that. Am I aleast on the right track?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

It depends. When running closed loop the stoich AFR is just a commanded value. Feedback from the O2 sensor vs. the closed loop mV values defines the actual AFR. Note that closed loop is required for clean emissions via the cat.

The open loop AFR vs RPM&VAC table is only used during open loop operation.

When in PE mode the PE AFR table is then used. PE mode is a way out of closed loop learn to a richer AFR and additional SA for more power. It is a special mode as upon throttle lift the ECM immediately goes back to closed loop (if entered from closed loop).

There are several options for how to do the fueling side of things. Older, non-cat equip'd (from the factory) vehicles can run open loop all of the time. Same with off-road vehicles. This changes quite a few things about the tune. Such as not even requiring PE mode.

RBob.

3rdGenFreak1227

So in essence putting a value in the closed loop AFR commanded table doesn't necessarily mean that is my AFR is going to be in closed loop....that doesn't change where the BLM zero's itself? (i.e. if AFR commanded is 14.7 = 450mv = 128BLM...if I change commanded AFR to say 12.8 = 600mv does the 128 BLM then move to 600mv?) or does it just not work like that? Also what would be the problem with running open loop in a vehicle that equipped with a cat...would it simply deteriorate the cat due to more than normal amount of fuel ( CO )? So my best bet would be to leave the commanded AFR for closed loop around 14:0 or so and just adjust my PE tables? I'm just trying to squeeze as much power as I can out of it on a stock setup until I get around to buying all of my new internals and heads...

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Up in the tuning guide book sticky, Chap. 5, '8063/'8747/'7747 section, there is an article on fueling. That explains the stoich AFR value along with using the O2 values for closed loop.

The PE AFR table is used to command a richer AFR during WOT operation.

RBob.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

I run 10% ethanol E10. I recall stoich to be 14.3/1 for that fuel. On WB I see 1.00 lambda or stoich. Now my stoich value in .bin is set 14.0/1. I cannot obtain that. I was hopeing to command a richer CL than stoich or 14.3/1. So something is off a bit. No emishions no cat. I also tweeked my median -lean-rich swing points by increasing them 10%. Maybe the Bosch NB02 sensor cannot "see" and provide enrichment? Or maybe something else I did or did not do disallows?

3rdGenFreak1227

Where exactly would I find that?

littlepiston

Great product!! need help though. i have a healthy cam installed on a gm 350 long block. My map is way off how do i get it in the ball park?? i remmeber reading some were tps to map somthing or other. My english is not vary good \thanks for the help

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Not sure how I missed these posts...

At the top of this board there are a few threads that are 'stuck.' One of them is the Tuning Guide Book.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Is that VE table from just a VE Learn at idle? Or is that VE table from driving the car around?

RBob.

littlepiston

the ve is from idleing and some driving around not much of either because i keep fouling the plugs.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I'd venture that the injector flow rate has been increased and the BPC table has not been set up. Use the spread sheet that came with the EBL and plug in the injector flow rate along with the new fuel pressure.

Can then copy & paste the BPC values into the "BPC - BPC vs VAC" table in the calibration. Return the VE table to normal then see how it runs.

RBob.

Pre-Tuner

iTrader: (2)

Ok, newest problem. Emissions. My CO is high at idle, which I understand has an easy fix; retard the timing. I retarded the timing via EBL SA-idle constant, and now the idle is contantly hunting around, which isn't going to cut it. Looking at a gas analyzer, the idle will pass when it's low, but then it goes higher (few hundred RPM) and fails. I don't want to say that it's a surge, because it takes a few seconds for it to happen (very slow compared to a surge). Plus, the AFR goes from 14.1ish to 15ish. At 14.1, it will pass the test, but at 15 it won't. I'm currently running open loop, if that matters, but I'm not sure why the idle is hunting. It runs pretty smooth for not having any timing at 14.1AFR, but then the IAC opens and raises the idle for no apparent reason (to me). It idles the best at 21 degrees, but I was told to run it at 0. I tried increasing the timing thinking I went too far, but when the idle smooths out via timing(at 5 degrees), it would fail the test.

Anything I can do to fake this thing through the test? This thing is driving me nuts.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Wow, running open loop idle and trying to pass emissions is going to be tough. That and going from a normal idle SA of 20* to 0* is way too much.

As for the hunting idle, most likely the VE table isn't quite correct. Although with the spark timing change you made (to 0*) will it ever be.

Make less of a change in the idle spark timing. Try it at 14 to 16*'s. Just a drop of 4 - 5*.

Running closed loop should also help. Just watch the prop gain.

RBob.

Pre-Tuner

iTrader: (2)

Watch the prop gain for what? I've never run closed loop, so I've never dealt with the prop gain.

Also, when I switched from closed to open loop at the very begining, I remember having to change the min and max BLM's to 128. Wasn't there something else also?

visionpb16

I have a 1991 camaro Z28 with a 5.7 TPI. I am running the EBL and am having trouble getting the A/C to work. Nothing works, I can't even get the vent to come on and blow air. I'm not positive it is the computer where the problem is or somewhere else. Any ideas on what I can try?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

To run open loop you needed to disable closed loop. This can be done across the board with the CTS enable threshold. And/or by using the status bits for the three forced open loop modes.

Prop gains force the AFR to swing rich/lean. Which in turn can cause surging. Tuning Guide Book sticky, Chap. 5, '8746/'8063/'7747 section for an article on fueling. It explains closed loop operation.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Was this a '8746 TBI swap to EBL TPI? In this case the ECM doesn't have anything to do with the A/C clutch and the doors. FOr the doors not moving check that the vacuum line is connected to the plenum. The doors are all vac operated.

For the compressor, just need to troubleshoot it. Could be a bad switch, blown fuse, or low on refrigerant.

RBob.