pcm to control 4l60e - and induction
#51
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Car: 90 454SS
Engine: 454 TBI
Transmission: TH400
Originally posted by chris1
Thanks Grumpy,
It is Edelbrock who sells a BBC conversion for port along with a SBC conversion for port {my application} for use with TBI PCMs. It's a batch fire system utilizing the two injector drivers, and it is priced pretty close to what a true multiport setup would cost.
Thanks Grumpy,
It is Edelbrock who sells a BBC conversion for port along with a SBC conversion for port {my application} for use with TBI PCMs. It's a batch fire system utilizing the two injector drivers, and it is priced pretty close to what a true multiport setup would cost.
#52
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Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by HaulnA$$
The 16197427 has CPI/PFI code built-in but I have yet to test it out, PCM bench under construction, but I have heard tell of this working to drive MPFI V-8 setups. This is the thread Grumpy was talking about https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=266523 . HTH
The 16197427 has CPI/PFI code built-in but I have yet to test it out, PCM bench under construction, but I have heard tell of this working to drive MPFI V-8 setups. This is the thread Grumpy was talking about https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=266523 . HTH
#53
Grumpy,
Your playing Yoda to Skycrawler. I am using the 0D ECU file that 89350STRO, Stevie, HaulnA$$, and other very talented people here built :hail: in TunerPro, and if it's got a check box for injection type I missed it. I have chewed through some serious bandwidth with the search function trying to figure things out on my own. What pray tell ECU def. file / BIN combination will work in a 7427 PCM for MPFI?
Since my original post the speed shop and I have changed the componentry quite a bit which will raise the power level to around 475hp @ 6000rpm, properly tuned of course. . I am open to ideas on how to best inject this motor. Hardware, ECM{s} and software combinations. Or do you guys think I should connect a TPS to a carburetor, zero out the fuel tables, modify the spark table and shift points and run it that way untill HaulinA$$ and the rest of the pro's hash out what is possible with the 7427?
Thanks
Chris
Your playing Yoda to Skycrawler. I am using the 0D ECU file that 89350STRO, Stevie, HaulnA$$, and other very talented people here built :hail: in TunerPro, and if it's got a check box for injection type I missed it. I have chewed through some serious bandwidth with the search function trying to figure things out on my own. What pray tell ECU def. file / BIN combination will work in a 7427 PCM for MPFI?
Since my original post the speed shop and I have changed the componentry quite a bit which will raise the power level to around 475hp @ 6000rpm, properly tuned of course. . I am open to ideas on how to best inject this motor. Hardware, ECM{s} and software combinations. Or do you guys think I should connect a TPS to a carburetor, zero out the fuel tables, modify the spark table and shift points and run it that way untill HaulinA$$ and the rest of the pro's hash out what is possible with the 7427?
Thanks
Chris
Last edited by chris1; 11-16-2004 at 12:41 PM.
#54
Originally posted by chris1
Grumpy,
Your playing Yoda to Skycrawler. I am using the 0D ECU file that 89350STRO, Stevie, HaulnA$$, and other very talented people here built :hail: in TunerPro, and if it's got a check box for injection type I missed it. I have chewed through some serious bandwidth with the search function trying to figure things out on my own. What pray tell ECU def. file / BIN combination will work in a 7427 PCM for MPFI?
Grumpy,
Your playing Yoda to Skycrawler. I am using the 0D ECU file that 89350STRO, Stevie, HaulnA$$, and other very talented people here built :hail: in TunerPro, and if it's got a check box for injection type I missed it. I have chewed through some serious bandwidth with the search function trying to figure things out on my own. What pray tell ECU def. file / BIN combination will work in a 7427 PCM for MPFI?
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Car: An Ol Buick
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A PCM consists of 3 items, software, firmware, and hardware.
Flipping the flag sets the software, now you need to check on the firmware (memcal).
There was no truck PCM that I'm aware of the was port. There was a SS454 guy that posted something about a memcal rewire to set it for port.
Flipping the flag sets the software, now you need to check on the firmware (memcal).
There was no truck PCM that I'm aware of the was port. There was a SS454 guy that posted something about a memcal rewire to set it for port.
#56
Originally posted by Grumpy
A PCM consists of 3 items, software, firmware, and hardware.
Flipping the flag sets the software, now you need to check on the firmware (memcal).
There was no truck PCM that I'm aware of the was port. There was a SS454 guy that posted something about a memcal rewire to set it for port.
A PCM consists of 3 items, software, firmware, and hardware.
Flipping the flag sets the software, now you need to check on the firmware (memcal).
There was no truck PCM that I'm aware of the was port. There was a SS454 guy that posted something about a memcal rewire to set it for port.
#57
I thought I would give an update on my project. The engine is still a few days from being completed, had to order different rockers to fit. I got my box of goodies from Craig on Friday! What a blast the 4l60e is to program. I have been tuning it to work with the new engines higher power band. I am wondering what line pressure modifications I should do? There is very little information out there on the subject. From what little I could find most guys are running around 200-240 lbs. max., which is more than three times my factory bin settings, and zeroing out the line pressure mods. If anyone has experience please chime in.
I have decided to run a carburetor to break in the motor. Should I just empty all of the fuel tables one at a time, or is there an easier / better way to keep the injector drivers from firing?
The best TPS sensor I could find to use so far is the Holley 543-29. I plan to fabricate a bracket and control rod assembly. It's the only one I can find that has an arm and connects to my factory harness.
Chris
I have decided to run a carburetor to break in the motor. Should I just empty all of the fuel tables one at a time, or is there an easier / better way to keep the injector drivers from firing?
The best TPS sensor I could find to use so far is the Holley 543-29. I plan to fabricate a bracket and control rod assembly. It's the only one I can find that has an arm and connects to my factory harness.
Chris
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Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by HaulnA$$
This same PCM (16197427) was used in the 4 cyl. S-10 trucks in a port configuration, the V-6 S-10 trucks in TBI and CPI configurations and the fullsize trucks in a TBI configuration.
There are a few guys on the truck boards running the Edelbrock MPFI conversion claiming smoother running engines after putting the PCM into CPI/PFI mode.
I, myself, am skeptical until I prove it to myself.
I hope to have my PCM bench completed within a couple of weeks so I can put the O-scope to it and play with the injector firing schemes. As I dive into it, I plan to share my findings and I am positive I will need much help from the members here.
This same PCM (16197427) was used in the 4 cyl. S-10 trucks in a port configuration, the V-6 S-10 trucks in TBI and CPI configurations and the fullsize trucks in a TBI configuration.
There are a few guys on the truck boards running the Edelbrock MPFI conversion claiming smoother running engines after putting the PCM into CPI/PFI mode.
I, myself, am skeptical until I prove it to myself.
I hope to have my PCM bench completed within a couple of weeks so I can put the O-scope to it and play with the injector firing schemes. As I dive into it, I plan to share my findings and I am positive I will need much help from the members here.
Yepper, on something like this being a skeptic is critical.
A bench and scope are the only true ways of getting to the truth.
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Car: 90 454SS
Engine: 454 TBI
Transmission: TH400
Originally posted by HaulnA$$
There are a few guys on the truck boards running the Edelbrock MPFI conversion claiming smoother running engines after putting the PCM into CPI/PFI mode.
There are a few guys on the truck boards running the Edelbrock MPFI conversion claiming smoother running engines after putting the PCM into CPI/PFI mode.
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Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by chris1
I thought I would give an update on my project. The engine is still a few days from being completed, had to order different rockers to fit. I got my box of goodies from Craig on Friday! What a blast the 4l60e is to program. I have been tuning it to work with the new engines higher power band. I am wondering what line pressure modifications I should do? There is very little information out there on the subject. From what little I could find most guys are running around 200-240 lbs. max., which is more than three times my factory bin settings, and zeroing out the line pressure mods. If anyone has experience please chime in.
I thought I would give an update on my project. The engine is still a few days from being completed, had to order different rockers to fit. I got my box of goodies from Craig on Friday! What a blast the 4l60e is to program. I have been tuning it to work with the new engines higher power band. I am wondering what line pressure modifications I should do? There is very little information out there on the subject. From what little I could find most guys are running around 200-240 lbs. max., which is more than three times my factory bin settings, and zeroing out the line pressure mods. If anyone has experience please chime in.
I think I raised the line pressures, maybe 10% on the average.
#61
Originally posted by Grumpy
Now that's interesting, ie being used in a 4 cyl port. But, that might be using a TBI injector firing strategy.
Now that's interesting, ie being used in a 4 cyl port. But, that might be using a TBI injector firing strategy.
Originally posted by va454ss
Got a link?
Got a link?
#62
Grumpy,
The 4l60e does not use a shift execution time table unfortunately.
Anyone have advice for best way to shut down the injector drivers, empty the tables or use flags? Is there anything else I should be taking care of in the Bin specific to running a carburetor ie. no IAC?
Thanks
Chris
The 4l60e does not use a shift execution time table unfortunately.
Anyone have advice for best way to shut down the injector drivers, empty the tables or use flags? Is there anything else I should be taking care of in the Bin specific to running a carburetor ie. no IAC?
Thanks
Chris
Last edited by chris1; 11-24-2004 at 12:17 PM.
#63
Originally posted by chris1
Grumpy,
The 4l60e does not use a shift execution time table unfortunately.
Anyone have advice for best way to shut down the injector drivers, empty the tables or use flags? Is there anything else I should be taking care of in the Bin specific to running a carburetor ie. no IAC?
Thanks
Chris
Grumpy,
The 4l60e does not use a shift execution time table unfortunately.
Anyone have advice for best way to shut down the injector drivers, empty the tables or use flags? Is there anything else I should be taking care of in the Bin specific to running a carburetor ie. no IAC?
Thanks
Chris
***************************************************
* BDWM/9042 P/N 16189041 10-11-1993 15:54:04
* 3/4/94 WAS
*
* 5.7L V8 C1 M30 GT4 (3.73) NB2 NB6 TIER 1
* ECM TYPE $0D
* ECM P/N 16196395 ECM
*
* 4L60E XMISSION PARAMS
* TYPE $0D ECM
* 5.7l L05
*
***************************************************
********************
* DESIRED SHIFT
* TIME
********************
;---------------------------------------------
; DESIRED SHIFT TIME
; 1 -> 2 SHFT
;
; 10-07-1997 Dissassemby of BDWM Lines= 17
;
; TBL = .04 * msec
;---------------------------------------------
ORG $658F ; msec %TPS
;---------------------------------
L658F FCB 34 ; 850 0.0
L6590 FCB 34 ; 850 6.3
L6591 FCB 29 ; 725 12.5
L6592 FCB 30 ; 750 18.8
L6593 FCB 33 ; 825 25.0
L6594 FCB 35 ; 875 31.3
L6595 FCB 35 ; 875 37.5
L6596 FCB 33 ; 825 43.8
L6597 FCB 33 ; 825 50.0
L6598 FCB 35 ; 875 56.3
L6599 FCB 35 ; 875 62.5
L659A FCB 34 ; 850 68.8
L659B FCB 35 ; 875 75.0
L659C FCB 35 ; 875 81.3
L659D FCB 36 ; 900 87.5
L659E FCB 37 ; 925 93.8
L659F FCB 37 ; 925 100.0
;---------------------------------------------
;---------------------------------------------
; DESIRED SHIFT TIME
; 2 -> 3 SHFT
;
; 10-07-1997 Dissassemby of BDWM Lines= 17
;
; TBL = .04 * msec
;---------------------------------------------
ORG $65A0 ; msec %TPS
;---------------------------------
L65A0 FCB 32 ; 800 0.0
L65A1 FCB 32 ; 800 6.3
L65A2 FCB 32 ; 800 12.5
L65A3 FCB 34 ; 850 18.8
L65A4 FCB 34 ; 850 25.0
L65A5 FCB 34 ; 850 31.3
L65A6 FCB 34 ; 850 37.5
L65A7 FCB 34 ; 850 43.8
L65A8 FCB 34 ; 850 50.0
L65A9 FCB 38 ; 950 56.3
L65AA FCB 38 ; 950 62.5
L65AB FCB 38 ; 950 68.8
L65AC FCB 38 ; 950 75.0
L65AD FCB 40 ; 1000 81.3
L65AE FCB 40 ; 1000 87.5
L65AF FCB 40 ; 1000 93.8
L65B0 FCB 40 ; 1000 100.0
;---------------------------------------------
;-------------------------------------------------
; DESIRED SHIFT TIME
; 3 -> 4 SHFT
;
; 10-07-1997 Dissassemby of BDWM Lines= 17
;
; TBL = .04 * msec
;---------------------------------------------
ORG $65B1 ; msec %TPS
;---------------------------------
L65B1 FCB 32 ; 800 0.0
L65B2 FCB 32 ; 800 6.3
L65B3 FCB 32 ; 800 12.5
L65B4 FCB 32 ; 800 18.8
L65B5 FCB 32 ; 800 25.0
L65B6 FCB 32 ; 800 31.3
L65B7 FCB 32 ; 800 37.5
L65B8 FCB 32 ; 800 43.8
L65B9 FCB 32 ; 800 50.0
L65BA FCB 32 ; 800 56.3
L65BB FCB 32 ; 800 62.5
L65BC FCB 32 ; 800 68.8
L65BD FCB 32 ; 800 75.0
L65BE FCB 32 ; 800 81.3
L65BF FCB 32 ; 800 87.5
L65C0 FCB 32 ; 800 93.8
L65C1 FCB 32 ; 800 100.0
;---------------------------------------------
**********************************************
You may need to ubdate your .ecu file to edit these tables. HTH
#64
HaulnA$$
I am using 0d v1_02.ecu, what updated ecu file would allow me to see and edit the shift timing tables?
And any input regarding the rest of my quandary would be appreciated.
Thanks
Chris
You may need to ubdate your .ecu file to edit these tables. HTH
And any input regarding the rest of my quandary would be appreciated.
Thanks
Chris
#65
Originally posted by chris1
I am using 0d v1_02.ecu, what updated ecu file would allow me to see and edit the shift timing tables?
And any input regarding the rest of my quandary would be appreciated.
Thanks
Chris
I am using 0d v1_02.ecu, what updated ecu file would allow me to see and edit the shift timing tables?
And any input regarding the rest of my quandary would be appreciated.
Thanks
Chris
#66
HaulnA$$
I cant believe I missed that tutorial! I'll stare at your post with the timing address's and the editor for awhile and it will probably click. I have only been at this a few weeks. I just toasted my first chip five days ago. If I can figure out how to add the shift timing tables to the 0D ecu definition file I will post a new ecu file to to Craigs site, unless someone else that actually knows what there doing has an extra couple of minutes. The only table adding I know how to do I will be perfroming this afternoon when I add a few leafs in the the dinning room for extra family .
I adjusted my line pressure 20% accross the board, I figured that was safe. I looked at the TCI Tcom software which has a normal to performance Lb. kick field and it is set to 25%. There are guys over at the LS1TECH forum that are running pressures up around 218-240!
When I destroyed my transmission last year it was rebuilt using all the better guts, and Transgo shift kit. It does not hit 2-3, 3-4 nearly as hard as need be. With your help hopefully I can get it there with the software, or else it will take a trip the trans. shop for some more hardware next week before the motor goes in.
Thanks much
Chris
I cant believe I missed that tutorial! I'll stare at your post with the timing address's and the editor for awhile and it will probably click. I have only been at this a few weeks. I just toasted my first chip five days ago. If I can figure out how to add the shift timing tables to the 0D ecu definition file I will post a new ecu file to to Craigs site, unless someone else that actually knows what there doing has an extra couple of minutes. The only table adding I know how to do I will be perfroming this afternoon when I add a few leafs in the the dinning room for extra family .
I adjusted my line pressure 20% accross the board, I figured that was safe. I looked at the TCI Tcom software which has a normal to performance Lb. kick field and it is set to 25%. There are guys over at the LS1TECH forum that are running pressures up around 218-240!
When I destroyed my transmission last year it was rebuilt using all the better guts, and Transgo shift kit. It does not hit 2-3, 3-4 nearly as hard as need be. With your help hopefully I can get it there with the software, or else it will take a trip the trans. shop for some more hardware next week before the motor goes in.
Thanks much
Chris
#67
The only thing I changed in my transmission programming was the normal shift points vs speed, and the line pressures. After a lot of fiddling with the shift point speeds I really like the way it drives. As for line pressures, when I've had them too high it about snapped my neck when it shifted while I was just driving around town. Although that's a bit hard on the driveline I doubt it would hurt anything. However when the line pressure is too low it seems to gently (and slowly) slide from one gear to the next. At high power this is akin to letting the clutch out gently on a standard while making lots of power. This is hell on the clutches in the tranny. I used a line pressure table given to me by someone on this board quite a while ago and its just fine. It is a lot more than 20% above the stock pressures. If you want, I can send the bin
Steve
Steve
#68
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Originally posted by Stevie
The only thing I changed in my transmission programming was the normal shift points vs speed, and the line pressures. After a lot of fiddling with the shift point speeds I really like the way it drives. As for line pressures, when I've had them too high it about snapped my neck when it shifted while I was just driving around town. Although that's a bit hard on the driveline I doubt it would hurt anything. However when the line pressure is too low it seems to gently (and slowly) slide from one gear to the next.
The only thing I changed in my transmission programming was the normal shift points vs speed, and the line pressures. After a lot of fiddling with the shift point speeds I really like the way it drives. As for line pressures, when I've had them too high it about snapped my neck when it shifted while I was just driving around town. Although that's a bit hard on the driveline I doubt it would hurt anything. However when the line pressure is too low it seems to gently (and slowly) slide from one gear to the next.
#69
You're right on the effect of shift time Grump. I baby mine around mostly but I will play with the shift time and see if I can feel the difference. Line pressure changes are definitely noticeable.
Steve
Steve
#71
help maybe?
Not to get off topic. But I have a 1995 Chevy S10 SS. It has the CPI injected v6 backed be a 4l60E trans and I would like to do some basic tuning on it. What would it involve? I know I need a cable and software. I also have access to a laptop. By I am getting lost and this mask thing. I am asking here because I read this thread discussing the use a of pcm from a cpi truck. Can some one give me some help?
#72
Steve
I would love to have a look at it! As I had mentioned earlier some of the guys over at LS1TECH tech are running pres. over three times higher than what my factory bin settings are. Bumping mine up 20% is hardly noticeable. I will try to figure out how to add the shift timing tables that HaulnA$$ pointed out to the ecu file when I get some spare time over the weekend.
Thanks
Chris
I would love to have a look at it! As I had mentioned earlier some of the guys over at LS1TECH tech are running pres. over three times higher than what my factory bin settings are. Bumping mine up 20% is hardly noticeable. I will try to figure out how to add the shift timing tables that HaulnA$$ pointed out to the ecu file when I get some spare time over the weekend.
Thanks
Chris
#73
Originally posted by contactpatch
Perhaps someone could write an overview,
of how the computer uses TPS to control
TCC lockup and shiftpoints.
Thanks
Perhaps someone could write an overview,
of how the computer uses TPS to control
TCC lockup and shiftpoints.
Thanks
#74
That's pretty much my understanding also. But the question is, how does the desired shift time table affect the shift times? When it comes time to shift, the pcm grounds an input which picks up a solenoid in the tranny. That's an on/off function which cannot change the shift time. There is an error flag in the datastream called "ERROR BETWEEN DESIRED AND ACTUAL SHIFT TIMES FOR LATEST 1-2 UPSHIFT". The pcm knows when a shift is actually completed because a switch in the tranny picks up. I suspect the desired shift time table is used only to compare against and set the error and not actually change the time. Whaddya think?
Chris, I uploaded the bin onto Craig's site. It is called: version 1.7.3a.bin
Steve
Chris, I uploaded the bin onto Craig's site. It is called: version 1.7.3a.bin
Steve
#75
Originally posted by Stevie
.... I suspect the desired shift time table is used only to compare against and set the error and not actually change the time. Whaddya think?
Steve
.... I suspect the desired shift time table is used only to compare against and set the error and not actually change the time. Whaddya think?
Steve
#76
Steve,
Thanks for the bin.
It was very helpful to look at a modified file to give me an idea where I need to go, not only for the the shift pressures but also timing. I bumped up my shift pressure to resemble the 1.7.3a. bin and I cannot tell much of a difference, still seems pretty soft. Oh well, the vehicle is going to the trans shop anyway to get the Corvette servo installed and I will ask what they can do hardware wise. Several people end up going to the 4L80E because they tire of toasting 60's. The new motor is ready to install and I may find myself in the same boat if I dont get the nice comfy 2-3, 3-4 mush shift firmed up a bunch, with throwing twice the horses and an additional 2500 rpm of useable powerband than it has seen before it may not last long!
I played a bit with the timing and found that the ol' tbi motor loves about four degrees more throughout. It drives like a different vehicle with so much more snap and power. With just the little bit I have done with shift points and timing, I could have probably lived with the stock motor a while longer.
I have come to wonder why the hotrod guys are not using the factory pcm's in mass. With the ability to dial in exact shift points and timing why wouldnt everyone run one? Procomp makes a late model dual plug dizzy that retails around a hundred bucks, a 40-50k late model coil is around forty bucks, 7427 pcms are a dime a dozen, throw in a few sensors and some goodies from Craig to allow you to dial everything in and your set. Plus the ability to hook up to your aldl port and monitor everything. Or is this our little secret, and I should solemnly swear from this point on to never speak of this again.
Chris
Thanks for the bin.
It was very helpful to look at a modified file to give me an idea where I need to go, not only for the the shift pressures but also timing. I bumped up my shift pressure to resemble the 1.7.3a. bin and I cannot tell much of a difference, still seems pretty soft. Oh well, the vehicle is going to the trans shop anyway to get the Corvette servo installed and I will ask what they can do hardware wise. Several people end up going to the 4L80E because they tire of toasting 60's. The new motor is ready to install and I may find myself in the same boat if I dont get the nice comfy 2-3, 3-4 mush shift firmed up a bunch, with throwing twice the horses and an additional 2500 rpm of useable powerband than it has seen before it may not last long!
I played a bit with the timing and found that the ol' tbi motor loves about four degrees more throughout. It drives like a different vehicle with so much more snap and power. With just the little bit I have done with shift points and timing, I could have probably lived with the stock motor a while longer.
I have come to wonder why the hotrod guys are not using the factory pcm's in mass. With the ability to dial in exact shift points and timing why wouldnt everyone run one? Procomp makes a late model dual plug dizzy that retails around a hundred bucks, a 40-50k late model coil is around forty bucks, 7427 pcms are a dime a dozen, throw in a few sensors and some goodies from Craig to allow you to dial everything in and your set. Plus the ability to hook up to your aldl port and monitor everything. Or is this our little secret, and I should solemnly swear from this point on to never speak of this again.
Chris
Last edited by chris1; 12-08-2004 at 08:51 AM.
#77
Well
I finally had time to install the new motor. Now to get it running! It started right up after about half a spin, ran it from about 2500 to 3k rpm with some gentle and fast runs up to around 5k for 30min, set the idle mixture screws on the carb. and tried to drive it. It just sputters and chugs with no power! I threw my timing light on it and noticed I have no timing advance untill the rpm's are over 4k, and then only about 4 additional deg. When I picked the motor up from the speed shop they had installed a plug where the knock sensor goes. for my initial run I clipped the wire and set the knock retard in my bin to 0 Deg.. I have my map sensor plumbed to the power brake Vac. source on the carb with about 3 inch. of hard line, which should be seeing full vacuum. My oxygen sensor is laying on the bench for the time being. I also put in an aftermarket Procomp dizzy. Today if I can find time I will run a 3.9k resistor from the knock sensor wire to a good ground on the motor, and try my factory dizzy. If anyone has an idea why I would not be getting ignition advance please chime in!
Thanks
Chris
I finally had time to install the new motor. Now to get it running! It started right up after about half a spin, ran it from about 2500 to 3k rpm with some gentle and fast runs up to around 5k for 30min, set the idle mixture screws on the carb. and tried to drive it. It just sputters and chugs with no power! I threw my timing light on it and noticed I have no timing advance untill the rpm's are over 4k, and then only about 4 additional deg. When I picked the motor up from the speed shop they had installed a plug where the knock sensor goes. for my initial run I clipped the wire and set the knock retard in my bin to 0 Deg.. I have my map sensor plumbed to the power brake Vac. source on the carb with about 3 inch. of hard line, which should be seeing full vacuum. My oxygen sensor is laying on the bench for the time being. I also put in an aftermarket Procomp dizzy. Today if I can find time I will run a 3.9k resistor from the knock sensor wire to a good ground on the motor, and try my factory dizzy. If anyone has an idea why I would not be getting ignition advance please chime in!
Thanks
Chris
Last edited by chris1; 12-26-2004 at 02:12 PM.
#78
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Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by chris1
I have my map sensor plumbed to the power brake Vac. source on the carb with about 3 inch. of hard line, which should be seeing full vacuum.
I have my map sensor plumbed to the power brake Vac. source on the carb with about 3 inch. of hard line, which should be seeing full vacuum.
MAP needs it's own line.
#79
Grumpy
The Map sensor line is connected to the brake booster supply nipple on the back of the carb., The vacuum line from the brake is connected to a fitting on the intake manifold. I am not running both from the same fitting.
Are you saying that the brake port on the carb. does not see full vacuum?
Thanks
Chris
The Map sensor line is connected to the brake booster supply nipple on the back of the carb., The vacuum line from the brake is connected to a fitting on the intake manifold. I am not running both from the same fitting.
Are you saying that the brake port on the carb. does not see full vacuum?
Thanks
Chris
#80
I figured out the main cause of my stumbling problem. I had installed short reach stone cold plugs, NGK R5673-9 that I had read somewhere as the best plug for the Dart 215 Iron Eagles with 9-10 comp.
I also figured out my timing issue. Upon further review with a VOM my map sensor was putting out just over 2 volts, right were it should with my motor making an estimated 17 Hg of vacuum. The reason I was not getting much spark advance is because in my almost stock spark tables that area of vacuum only has about 5 degrees of avance from 1200 to 4k rpm! I have been adding in more timing slowly and the motor is starting to come to life. If anyone can point me to a table that has been built for a motor with around 17Hg Vac. that I can study I would appreciate it. I am not sure If I should build the advance aggresively within the current no load map range and smooth it to the top of the graph, or just add it more slowly at higher map ranges?
Thanks
Chris
I also figured out my timing issue. Upon further review with a VOM my map sensor was putting out just over 2 volts, right were it should with my motor making an estimated 17 Hg of vacuum. The reason I was not getting much spark advance is because in my almost stock spark tables that area of vacuum only has about 5 degrees of avance from 1200 to 4k rpm! I have been adding in more timing slowly and the motor is starting to come to life. If anyone can point me to a table that has been built for a motor with around 17Hg Vac. that I can study I would appreciate it. I am not sure If I should build the advance aggresively within the current no load map range and smooth it to the top of the graph, or just add it more slowly at higher map ranges?
Thanks
Chris
#81
Guys I still need a little help please.
Long story condensed, The motor ran out of oil pressure with less than fifty miles on it. It had completely destroyed all the bearings due to a problem that started with the rods, Eagle stood behind the problem and replaced everything. I now have everything back together and am trying to tune.
The major problem I have is ignition timing. The motor is running a Carburetor with an external TPS. I have the MAP sensor connected to full manifold vacuum, both sensors seem to be functioning fine. I have edited my spark tables for a more aggresive advance curve. The motor starts and runs O.K. but when you nail the throttle in park or when going down the road at steady speed it falls flat for about a second and then revs. I installed a larger pump discharge nozzle thinking it just needed more pump shot, that didn't help or hurt. I then grabed my timing light to take a closer look at what the timing was physically doing, and my spark advance is working ABSOLUTELY REVERSE of what it should be doing! I have my idle timing set at 34D "thats what it wants" and when you jump the throttle under load to get some feed from the map sensor going the ignition RETARDS about 12 degrees! Before I dig in this weekend I would appreciate any suggestions on where to start? What could cause this? I have an aftermarket Procomp dizzy but I have never heard of a module working backwards!
Thanks
Chris
Long story condensed, The motor ran out of oil pressure with less than fifty miles on it. It had completely destroyed all the bearings due to a problem that started with the rods, Eagle stood behind the problem and replaced everything. I now have everything back together and am trying to tune.
The major problem I have is ignition timing. The motor is running a Carburetor with an external TPS. I have the MAP sensor connected to full manifold vacuum, both sensors seem to be functioning fine. I have edited my spark tables for a more aggresive advance curve. The motor starts and runs O.K. but when you nail the throttle in park or when going down the road at steady speed it falls flat for about a second and then revs. I installed a larger pump discharge nozzle thinking it just needed more pump shot, that didn't help or hurt. I then grabed my timing light to take a closer look at what the timing was physically doing, and my spark advance is working ABSOLUTELY REVERSE of what it should be doing! I have my idle timing set at 34D "thats what it wants" and when you jump the throttle under load to get some feed from the map sensor going the ignition RETARDS about 12 degrees! Before I dig in this weekend I would appreciate any suggestions on where to start? What could cause this? I have an aftermarket Procomp dizzy but I have never heard of a module working backwards!
Thanks
Chris
#82
Update
I found time this afternoon to change the ignition module, and I noticed something that may help diagnose the problem. From an idle position if I move the throttle very quickly to where the motor runs at around 4k rpm and hold it there, what I notice with a timing light is that the timing initialy drops off by about 10-12 Deg. for around a half second {while the engine is bogging} and then climbs to an advanced position 6 to 7 Deg. higher than the idle setting. It appears the motor is getting rpm based advance, but when the throttle is opened quickly and the vacuum drops the ignition is retarding instead of advancing. Thanks for any help.
Chris
I found time this afternoon to change the ignition module, and I noticed something that may help diagnose the problem. From an idle position if I move the throttle very quickly to where the motor runs at around 4k rpm and hold it there, what I notice with a timing light is that the timing initialy drops off by about 10-12 Deg. for around a half second {while the engine is bogging} and then climbs to an advanced position 6 to 7 Deg. higher than the idle setting. It appears the motor is getting rpm based advance, but when the throttle is opened quickly and the vacuum drops the ignition is retarding instead of advancing. Thanks for any help.
Chris
#83
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That is correct. When you snap the throttle open the manifold pressure increases which in turn has a lower SA requirement and is set that way in the SA table.
Once the RPM increases the the manifold pressure decreases and the SA comes back in. Check the SA table in your bin. You'll see this.
RBob.
Once the RPM increases the the manifold pressure decreases and the SA comes back in. Check the SA table in your bin. You'll see this.
RBob.
#84
Thanks RBob
I have so much to learn. I would guess that with the engines semi choppy idle I am going to have to completely rebuild my tables to keep the timing from falling off so much when the throttle is used aggressively?
Chris
I have so much to learn. I would guess that with the engines semi choppy idle I am going to have to completely rebuild my tables to keep the timing from falling off so much when the throttle is used aggressively?
Chris
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