MTPFI-MAF

ok I am working on a Intro to prom burning revision. I still using some of Traxion original, I just moddified it and added some Stuff. I would like opinions. I am nowhere near done and Have a lot to add, so if anyone would like to help let me know!!!

http://www.f-body383.100megsfree5.co...roms_part2.htm

This Has Been Removed from the Interent

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

I can't even pull up that url right now

11sORbust

That is WAY too many pop up ads. Nobody is even going to see the article.

mystikkal_69

iTrader: (2)

since i have a firewall no pops at all. a very nice update to the original. good job. a little ruff, but good none the less. difinitely finish it up and get it upped to here.

3.8TransAM

Check with Trax on the use of his stuff.

Other than that it is looking good, keep up the (so far) good work)

We can include it among the opther articles, but have to do it as a straight post article here so we can eliminate the opo up garbage

later
Jeremy

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Looks good, showing the options of the AutoProm and Prominator stuff will explain the options currently available.
Might want to add a link to the ECM crossreference page (if allowed) and maybe some of the background information pages such as from "chevythunder" etc. Again if its OK to do so.
The more background information links, the better.
That will also help newbies understand the systems involved along with the ECM control of them.
Keep up the good work.

Mangus

Remember to keep it simple but informative. A list of links to other resources (ECM cross reference, etc) is helpful.

I might not be the best candidate for even suggesting this, but don't you think its time to archive GMEPRO (with all due respect)?

TRAXION

Thanks a lot for working on it without even asking me.

Tim

Mangus

lol. I guess I personally believed that MTPFI was commissioned. I guess I was mistaken.

How 'bout we leave it to the original author?

MTPFI-MAF

Well Trax I sent you a E-mail
I guess you either didn't see it or get it. Sorry I din't wait for our reply before Posting. I have Removed it from Web and I am Scrubbing the Idea. I have read quite a few Post on the Idea of a Revision and no body steped up, Sorry for any incovinince.

I just wanted to Give something back to TGO and Help out Noobies, Since TGO has Help Me so much.

Trax- I am very dissapointed in my Self Sorry man.

Grumpy

Hate hearing that. Things need to be updated from time to time.

You need to do what makes you feel good about what your doing. Don't update it looking for attaboys, or expecting help, there aren't many people that have the *want* to just give back.

I've found it amazing how much I've learned/ redistilled to memory when I was doing the Final Answers, etc.. Some of this stuff takes time, and has no reward other then the personal gratification of having done something to contribute.

I'd suggest you just do it on your own, as you see fit, and when you want to/if you want to share it.

There's an old saying *Just give it away*. When you start doing that, it leaves room for new stuff to fill the void.

HTH

mystikkal_69

iTrader: (2)

i would have to agree with grumpy. don't just give up just yet. the intro into prom burning has been long dated. if so remove "traxion's" material from the update. since this is an update and a "part 2" and not a whole new article. though a complete article would be nice, but i guess an addedum would work just as good. do not scrap the idea.

MTPFI-MAF

Well If traxion Will Give Me permission To use his original as a Template, I will Continue Designing. I would just like some info on stuff like Links to A functioning ECU file for the $8D also Where is a .ADS file For the $8D that works. and a list of stuff that needs to be added. also Any Informative links that people Have send my way.

Maybe This should just be a disscussion Untill I get feed back and Really see what Hardware, Software, Info, Links, Need to be in this and then start Over.

Thanks Grumpy for the reasurance, I Really wasn't really looking for pat on the back for doing it, it would just make me fell better knowing that I have helped, I just keep seeing all of the Posts like: I am new What do I need Where tim's article Used to help, but with so many post on New hardware and software it becomes really confusing for a noobie.

Once again Tim I am sorry, but may I use it.

92BLKL98

I totally agree with Grumpy. The stuff Trax has researched and put into this website is awsome. I started my own research on my '92 Z28 because of his work and research. My hat is off to you Traxion. I just wish I had the understanding of this stuff you do, but I'm learning.
MTPFI-MAF Do not lose heart I'm sure Trax had naysayers too like Grumpy said sometimes we need updates, renewals. Keep up the work.

TRAXION

I did send a reply to your e-mail. What I said was ...

Lets work on the update together. We'll put the new version right here on thirdgen.org. What do you think?

Tim

MTPFI-MAF

Lets Do It.

novass

iTrader: (1)

Glad to hear it! Nothing like moving our hobby forward.:rockon:

mystikkal_69

iTrader: (2)

Captain C

I'm really looking forward to the article. Hopefully it will include things like what is the function of each of the constants, flags, and tables and how modifying them affects other constants, flags, tables, along with performance or economy,etc.

I am in the process of logging the differences between the bin file of an aftermarket chip that was custom designed for my engine and a stock ARAP 6E bin. I will type up my handwritten list of constants and flags and I'm copying the tables into Excel with each table on a seperate worksheet.

I am going to be asking lots of questions as to why someone would modify the stock setting to what the aftermarket chip is set at. That way I can understand what effects these changes have on the engine.

Also, I am going to be creating custom bins for my PROMinator for power, mileage, and off road so I need to know how the different areas affect the whole.

Currently, my comparison only reflects those constants, flags, and tables that are different from each other. Constants, flags, and tables that matched are not included.

MTPFI-MAF

Tim and I are working on this Via E-mail. I will include info on Emulators, Programmers, Data Logging Software, Chip adapters, what ECUs file to use and where to get ECU files and .bins in relation to How to help People Get a Grasp On what their choices are Depending On the ECM they Have and or Ecm Choices. Not too Sure How in depth on Modifying Tables and all there functions are since we are still Discussing On What this article sould contain. Since it is targed too help People Who have no understanding of what they have or what they need.

keep posting suggestions

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Might be interesting to include a list of "What can be done by changing the code" to just open up the eyes of the people who want to go deeper than just changing variables. I don't see much info on that sort of thing.
Might spark some more enthusiasm to go deeper.

Grumpy

Maybe it's time for a phase I, and phase II.
There's just so much stuff. To be too cursiory, shortchanges the whole. Or figure out how you'r going to break it up into chunks to make it most managable.

Maybe, get a few more people involved and break it into groups. There are enough guys that have expertise in enough different areas they should be able to put together a few pages for each area.

Justa thought.

MTPFI-MAF

And a Good Thought it is. Well If Tim dosen't Mind I am Game. I think it is time for it to be broken into phases. And Team Effort makes Good things happen and helps Progress.

Craig Moates

Sounds like a good thing. Give me a yell if you need any help, I'd be glad to contribute what I can. If you need someone in an editorial role, I am known to be somewhat efficient in that respect.

MTPFI-MAF

Thanks Craig,
Tim is on vacation so it is gonna be a week or so till I hear form him.

What I think is that Phase I would include.

-How to tell what ECM and Mask You Have
-Explantion Of what is a Bin, ECU, Data Streame Definitions With links to Them.
-Explantion of Why you Need to Scan and why Mail Order chips are like Throwing money in a Fire.
-Step by Step Walk Through To scanning (With Screen Shots)
-Links to ALDL Cable Sellers and Diagrams on how to build a Cable.
-Hardware Selection, Programmers or Emulators. Chip Adapters, ECT.

Then Break Off Here To Phase II Depending on Mask, So that way which ever mask they have they can go directly to a Write up that deals with Only the Stuff, Settings, Descriptions that they have so Noobs aren't reading info that won't pertain to there systems, that they are actually going to be tuning. If they switch systems they can just Click a link to the new one and go from there. Although It would Require a Group Effort I think We all can Put our Heads togeather and Work this out, and Maybe even Learn a thing or two ourselves.

Just my .02

Grumpy

Looks like Doc and the lil guys are all agreeing with it so far

Captain C

Amen Brother!!!!!! I have a binder just waiting for the material. (Of course a file on the laptop wouldn't hurt either....)


:hail:

JP84Z430HP

This was sort of my thinking when I started the "Source Code for Dummies" thread. As long as all the contributors to the post are ok with it, I plan to compile all the info I can, both from that post, and what I've learned elsewhere (commented Hac's, Motorola pink book, other threads, trial and error, etc....) I suppose this would be more of a phase 4 or 5 thing though. Funny how I've already learned some of the source code stuff, and I'm not even tuning my car yet!!! I know it may sound backwards, seeing how much info is out there that I can already use, but I want to know how it all works to begin with, deep down inside!

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

This is an awesome step forward!
Just being able to link to "Your" relevant ecm items is a great idea.
Luck for me I'm $8D so there's lots to look at.
Other masks get lost in the shuffle if it's not a $6E or common.
If you want me to help also, let me know what my 1 yr noobie aZZ can help with.
You guys are doing a Great job. :hail:
thanks.
Jp

CaptPicardsZ28

can you get this done by end of next week? j/k I'm ordering my autoprom and stuff from craig within days...:lala: :lala: :lala:

Craig Moates

One quick thought here. Maybe we could establish a group of 4 or 5 contributors for the writing? I'd suggest 2-3 veterans and 1-2 newbies. The reason is, once you get into this for a while, you tend to forget what was difficult to learn and in explaining it, could easily lose the real newbie. If we had a total newbie to advise and ask questions, that could help keep it on track.

MTPFI-MAF

Craig I couldn't agree more.

BTW does anybody have a document on what Each Constant, Flag, Tables Do and or Relate To. (long shot I know)




BTW Tim is on Vacation and I wout here from him till The 12th

va454ss

iTrader: (1)

I'm currently using the 16147060 PCM, with TunerCat and AutoProm.

This is not as widely used as some of the other ECM/PCM's but it does have its merits, as a few of us can attest to.

I read a lot of good tips, etc here, but sometimes I have a problem with interpretation.

An experienced tuner will answer a question with "adjust blah, blah, blah". That's great, but I think the terms or verbage is different depending on what tuning program you're using. Also, dependent on ECM or PCM being used.

At any rate, I would like the 7060 included in the mix.

At this point, I can provide little experience, but I can provide plenty of questions

jwscab

i think this is a great idea. The plan is good to make a generic tuning document for beginners, and I think the next steps are also a great idea for specific tuning documents per ecm/system.

so much so, that I've started a 'tuning' document for 32B/6E, which kinda follows the P4 document styling, where I have some background of MAF system, and the math involved. I'm going to break down each tunable parameter avaialable in tunercat and tuner pro, so for example, take spark. I'll show a typical table as an example, and give some tips for what to change along with some situations I'll aslo show how each timing paramter is used to generate the whole advance curve. but..........I don't claim to know each intricacy of each variable, thats where I hope the people on this board will contribute. give me a few days to get the framework settled on, how I think it would work, and I'll post it to get some feedback. Then,, hopefully, this could take off, and using this as a template, each ecm could have a doc generated.

I hope this is well received, I'd like to contribute just a little too. The way I have the document started, I think everyone will like it.

-Joe

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

do you guys still need or want a newbie? if so i would like to be one of your men. i am very new to this but i plan on buyin the stuff this winter to start burnin on my own. i know very little about prom tuning but i am very willing to learn, and i do consider myself a little bit knowledgeable about TPI, see my sig for supporting evidence.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

I'm more than happy to be a "newbie" for testing the article on as well. Done lots of tech writing, have TunerCat, Datamaster, and a Flash-n-Burn and am trying real hard to learn this stuff....

For background - I'm a 51 year old Phat Phart in Dallas, TX, working on tuning a daily driver a 91 Firebird 383 SuperRam setup (400+ HP, 500+ TQ), and work as a professional UNIX dude in real life (though I don't know assembly language).

Glad to help out if at all possible.


- Vern

CaptPicardsZ28

How are things progressing on this? Can we get an update?

TRAXION

I'm back from vacation Let's get this party started!

Tim

MTPFI-MAF

Welcome Back Tim, Hope you had a good vacation, Now Where Would you like to start.

jwscab

I started a $32B document, its 10 pages so far. I know, most guys are interested in MAP systems, but its what I own, so I might as well start there.....

its about 180K, in Word. how do I go about posting it, or attching it or what? can I attach in this post as a word doc, or will a .zip work?

I still need to get the BPW calculations nailed down, but its pretty complete description wise.

it breaks down like this:

-I have the general introduction, recognizing the sources of information

-a general(actually in depth) operation of the MAF system

-the constants and tables with some description.

so, I have the first two parts almost complete, and some of the tables and constants descibed, but will need some help to finish them out, since I'm working on this away from my tuning equipment, and to be honest, some of the stuff I've not modified, so I don't know the full operation. thats where more experienced tuners hopefully will come in.

so.....who knows how I should put this out for some viewing and feedback?

TRAXION

First and foremost - everyone please keep in mind that this is an INTRO to PROM burning. This article should not go into specific details on how to tune a particular bin. Leave that for part #2 ... and whoever wants to work on that. There's a fine line between presenting too much information and scaring off new people and presenting enough information to get them started.

Tim

jwscab

Yep, this is true. My bad. It was mentioned in the thread up above somewhere about making a part 1 and part 2. Thats why I was referring to this post, but not posting anything concrete, just yet, and wanted some feedback. I kept it in this thread, but we can start a new one, if you think it would be less confusing.

Captain C

Glad to see the work on the MAF stuff. I'm running $6E but I'm sure there will be lots that will apply to it from the 32B. I'm fairly new to this. I have been modifying the constants and I've just started modifying the spark tables to eliminate a nasty ping on 91 octane California premium gas. Next stop is to modify the fuel delivery to get my BLM's and INT's closer to 128. MY BLM's are fairly close, but the INTs are running under 100 sometimes....

If I have this down correctly (after scanning, searching for modification information)

If the car is rich: lower MAF tables
If the car is lean: Raise MAF tables

This kind of stuff will be really great to have in the new PROM burning revision!!!!

MTPFI-MAF

ok Tim here is What I think the INTRO should contain.

In This Order

-A Explnation why You Should Burn your own chips and Not buy a Aftermarket Chip. (CaptPicardsZ28) has a Nice Post that should be used
-How to tell what ECM and Mask You Have
-Explantion Of what is a Mask, Bin, ECU, Data Streame Definitions With links to Them.
-Explantion of Why you Need to Scan With Step by Step Walk Through To scanning (With Screen Shots) and software Recomemdations
-Diagrams on how to build a Cable. Links to ALDL Cable Sellers
-Hardware Selection, Programmers or Emulators. Chip Adapters, ECT.

Like Tim suggested Lets Concentrate on a informative Easy to understand INTRO, I also would like to say that some of the problem I had when learning this is too many software choices, I think it should be narrowed to: TunerPro RT, CATS tuner cat for Bin moddifying and TunerPro RT and Moates ECM852 for scanning.

Craig Moates

I'll supply the needed editorial services with respect to grammatical structure and proper English usage as this comes together, so don't worry.

Sorry, inside joke.

Mangus

what r u talkign about craig? i dont get it.

Ken73

A couple of points;

I agree with Craig; you need someone who has questions to ask those redundant questions - that's why you're writing this in the first place, to answer those! So a newbie or two to help ask wouldn't be bad.

Also, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't make this completely biased towards TPI systems only. I was really frustrated when I read some of the articles as they didn't mention anything about the differences between TPI and TBI ECM's. It seems a lot of the tuning articles were entirely geared to TPI users.

MTPFI-MAF

Great Idea Ken73 I agree fully that the INTRO be a Guide for TPI &TBI

Cobra289

Hi MTPFI-MAF,

I am in for the test part.
Why?
Because I think that I met almost all the requirements.

I am a:
Newbie.
I can’t read, write or speak English.
I am dyslectic (need to read things twice)
I am old.
And I know if I understand, every body will understand.

What I got:
Confidence and enthusiasm.
I can make drawings if there are necessary.

MTPFI-MAF and TRAXION
Will you publish the “Parts” in a different site so that we can advice you?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Regards,
Cobra289

CaptPicardsZ28

eye tihnk, hee meanes 'wee', um, um, we hav noh compreehinzion? skeelz or. wee hav bahd gramma? I dohnt know y! cuz eye lernd from a phoneics, coarse. I can spel jus phine?