conv90

Finally I connected the cable to the ALDL and the TunerPro RT datalogging seems working.
I can read all data:
TPS, engine speed, BLM, InT, Knock count, loop staus....
...
All these values seems good (All are in a reasonnable range telling me that the connction is good)
I have a 90 TPI vette with 727 ECM and I'm using ALDL Datastream Definition file found on the tunerpro folder "Datastrems" file is 1227730.ads).
All seems good until I see that in the Setup tab of the ALDL communication tool the packed error count is climbing like crazy!
What' this means??
Thanks
-Beppe-

thirdgen88

you don't have infrared enabled on your laptop do you?? Before I disabled my infrared port (in device manager), I was getting random errors like that (the datastream would just cut out and I'd have to restart the program, and mini errors every so often while I was logging (increased when I upped the sample rate)).

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Mine was being screwed up by a PCMCIA network card and its drivers and drivers for my removable USB memory stick.
Try to unload any other types of communications programs that may be running in the background.
Took me a few tries to figure out what was happening.

conv90

I recorded a session, a 15 min session.
When I performed a playback I was not able to see data (too fast!) so I exported the file to .csv
Now I'm able to see the recorded session with Excel.
The recorded session ended with over 9,000 packed errors!!
I recorded 2480 samples
All data seems good (the only strange data are from the TPS%,
TPS volts seems good (the idle is 0.66 and whe I made a WOT the value is 4.09)).
I have value of % TPS comprised from 0.00 to 1.29(?')
Even thinking that a % TPS valu of 0.17 is 17% and 0.09 is 9% I can't understand how a value of 0.51 can be 51% if the related TPS volt value is 0.73 !!
...and How can be right a value of % TPS of 0.01 with a Volts reading of 4.04 .... (maybe 0.01 = 100% ?)
In any case this TPS problem is not important because a good WOT can engage PE and all TPS related value seems good (AE, PE, TCC unlock...etc..)
I see that there is an "engine running time" data in seconds.
It seems that I'm able to capture up to 5 or 6 rows (samples) for every second of datalogging.
Sometimes I have "holes" in the samples...
I explaine with an example: I have the row 855 where the column "engine running time" says 474.
The next row (the 856), the column "engine running time" says 477.
This means I'm loosing three precious seconds of datalogging!

In addition, in this case I'm having 4 Knock counts and up to 6 deg of removed timing)
In all the csv file there are "holes"like this...
This problem ( seconds of datalog missing) can be related to the error counts I reported? (over 9,000 in the session)
Thanks.

Mangus

The TPS item in the 730 ADS file was not correct. Be sure you're using the latest one (included in v3.09).

Regarding yoru error counts, I'm not quite sure what would cause it. If you're getting error counts AND valid data simultaneously, it tells me that you're getting some good packets in the middle of some bad packets. I'm not really sure what would cause that, but if yuo're losing 3 seconds (during which the error counts were probably skyrocketing), its probably an intermittent connection with your cable, either to the ALDL port, to the PC, or to power. Power might also be an issue (either with your laptop or with the cable's connection to its power source, depending on your cable type). Check into that.

conv90

TPS:
Ok , I have to use the .ads with title "Fixed Throttle Position Issue"... right?
About connection:
I used up to 2 hours to be able to be "connected" I tried every COM port and and prefernces settings.
Said this, I have to say I'm using a Moates ALDU1 USB-to-ALDL Converter and CABL1 OBD1-Style ALDL Connector also from Craig. Windows XP.
ALDU1 USB-to-ALDL Converter has a switch for 10K resistor enabled and 10 K resistor disabled. I really don't know if this can be my case and if this can be my problem. (I don't know if the switch is positioned on the 10k side or not , the little switch is not labeled)
In any case could you confirm that loosing 2 or 3 seconds of datalog is NOT normal?
I will chech my connection.
Thanks

Mangus

Losing 2-3 seconds is not normal.

So you're using a ALDU1 ... good to know.

Have you installed the drivers correctly (or at all)? If you open the driver's settings in the device manager, go to advanced, and set the timout to 1ms (it is defaulted to 16ms).

conv90

Yes I installed the drivers (I think correctly) . The drivers I insatalled are the USB required drivers found on the Moates.net site.
Unzipped the files to a folder and when the laptop detected the New USB device searching for drivers I said to the wizard to search in that folder. First attempt was not with success.
Next attempt I said to "folder option" to be able to see all .sys file that were hidden.
The problem was a ftdpi.sys file (or something similar) not found.
I will try to set the timout to 1ms .
Thanks
Your software is fantastic! The editor is Superfantastic!
Thanks

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

That screen shot I put up previously was from my original ADS file that had the incorrect calculation. That was a few months ago.
I just edited it to put the correct calculation in and put that text in there to remind me I did it. Its only on my copy of the ads file.
The current version on Marks board has the corrected file so you should be OK.
I have the actual values handy to let you confirm it.

conv90

I continue to have TPS % problems even using the new .ads
The TPS Volts as I said, seems good.
I continue to have Errrors counts... about 10 counts per seconds with a very linear progression.
The sample rate (Hz) is between 9 and 10 .
I set the rate in Preferences at 10 Hz.

I tried every position of the switch on ALDU1.
I tried the 10 k resistor switch position (captures data and I have Error counts)
I tried the NO 10 k resistor switch position (captures data and I have Error counts)
I tried also the A B ground switch position ( it captures data and I have Error counts too...).
The connection from the ALDL and the cable is strong.
The connection from the cable and the adapter is strong
The connection from the adapter and the USB cable is not so strong and solid, but even putting additional force with my hand and moving the cable up and down has no effect on the error counts.
The USB cable to the USB port of the laptop is strong and solid.

the real strange thing is that I continue to have error counts even if I UNPLUG the USB cable from the ALDU1 adapter during monitoring!
The status continue to be "Connected", the data stop to be updated (of course!) and the Error counts continue his run at a rate of about 10 counts per second.
Can be the error counts issue related to the check sum incorrect on my bin?
I really don't think that the checksum on my bin is incorrect because Tunerpro ALWAYS ask for a new checksum at every mod in the bin saved...
I will try to burn a new chip with some mods I planned these days and I will let you know.
Someone Using TunerproRT with ALDU1 Craig's adapter experienced these problems ?
Thanks
-Beppe-

Mangus

If you're seeing 10 error counts per second, and you're monitoring at 10Hz, you're not getting any real data, yet you state you are. This is suspicious.

Do you have another computer you could try? It may some squirreliness with your USB port.

I've not heard of issues with the ALDU1 adapter, and I've certainly heard of success. That doesn't rule out incompatibility, however.

If you get a connection and valid date (at all), its not going to be a checksum related issue. Plus, an invalid checksum would cause the car to run in Limp Home Mode. If you aren't running in LHM, your bin is fine. If you are, yes, that could be the issue here.

Cobra289

Hi Conv90,

You can try the new drivers of http://www.ftdichip.com/FTDriver.htm

There are the same of Craig Moates but updated (new version)

Download the "Virtual COM Port ( VCP ) Drivers for Windows 98 / ME / 2000 / XP"

I hope this can help you.
Regards,
Cobra289

Cobra289

Hi conv90,

If you download the driver from above you will get and other title on the device manager for the USB port.
No problems with that.
But if you insist in getting the same info as the Craig Moates driver you can change the next parameters in the "FTDIPORT.INF" file.

Moates driver at the end of the "FTDIPORT.INF" file is:
[Strings]
FTDI="FTDI"
DriversDisk="FTDI USB Drivers Disk"
PortsClassName = "Ports (COM & LPT)"
VID_0403&PID_8372.DeviceDesc="Moates.net USB Device Driver"
VID_0403&PID_6001.DeviceDesc="Moates.net USB Device Driver"
FtdiPort.SvcDesc="Moates.net USB Device Driver"
SerEnum.SvcDesc="Serenum Filter Driver"

New driver:
[Strings]
FTDI="FTDI"
DriversDisk="FTDI USB Drivers Disk"
PortsClassName = "Ports (COM & LPT)"
VID_0403&PID_8372.DeviceDesc="USB Serial Port"
VID_0403&PID_6001.DeviceDesc="USB Serial Port"
FtdiPort.SvcDesc="USB Serial Port Driver"
SerEnum.SvcDesc="Serenum Filter Driver"

So as you can see you can edit the strings for the name that you want, in our case "Moates.net USB Device Driver"

Regards,
Cobra289

conv90

Yesterday I made a test. I set the rate at only 1 HZ.
I connected and I hit the REC button.
I monitored 60 seconds.
At this slow rate I can see when the thing is taking samples or errors... and Yes, I can say that I have (random) 2 or 3 errors (and the sample recorded is stopped) , then it starts to record 1 or 2 valid samples (and the error is stopped), then again 3 or 4 errors, stopping the recorded samples.
At the end, in 60 seconds I had 16 good samples and 44 errors.
I tried also at 10 HZ with about 180 seconds. It ended with 460 valid samples and about 1350 errors.
The end of the story is that when i have good recorded samples I haven't errors, and when I have errors I haven't good recorded samples.
I made other 6 or 7 tests like this ending ALWAYS with a ratio of 3:1 (3/4 errors and 1/4 good samples).

About checksum:
Yes I can confirm I'm NOT in LHM. The car runs fine.
I will try another computer, or I will be happy to try with a serial connection (not USB), but unfortunately I really don't know how to build a DIY serial cable!
I read all about the fabrication of a serial cable to connect the laptop to the ALDL cable, but I really need a step to step instructions. (I'm stupid to understand this electronics things...)
-Thanks-
-Beppe-

conv90

Thank you Cobra289!
I will try to download these driver And I will try also to "hack" the title as you described!
Thanks again!
-Beppe-

86Chicken

Are you running a 90 Corvette by chance?

I have similar problems with TunerPro RT and my 90 Vette. I get maybe 1 sample every 2 seconds. I also get "Sys" errors on the dash when datalogging. I haven't had time to play with the Vette lately (moving and car trouble) otherwise I probably would posted awhile ago.

Datamaster works fine on the 90 as does TunerPro with my Dad's 86 Vette (165 ECM w/ 6E). All with the same Laptop so the computer and cables must be OK.

I think there are communication errors resulting from the dash and A/C head unit querying the ECM at the same time as TunerPro.

Dale

conv90

Yes, it's a 90 corvette convertible! So do you think there are problems because the ALDL flow is is shared with the AC head unit? Do you know this for sure or it'a your supposition?

My C68 A/C head unit does not works (the disply allwys say: - --

).
So I have to go with Datamaster...
Thanks
-Beppe-
P.S. Tried also to use the new drivers found on the Cobra's link.. No success..

86Chicken

This is just an educated guess. It seems to fit the facts tho. The dash in the 86 also goes a little funny when logging - the MPG display doesn't work. With Datamaster in the 90, the MPG also gets messed up but I consider this to be a non-issue since I don't drive with the logger on all the time.

The wiring diagram shows that the A/C(C68), CCM, ABS and ALDL connector all pull their signal from the same pin on the ECM (See page 8A-50-2 in the shop manual). I forgot all about the ABS until I checked the book.

I think the TunerPro software could be tweeked to work just fine. Personally, I don't like Datamaster very much and the only person I have had contact with over there was a ***** so I would prefer not to do business with them at all. TunerProRT is a great program and I would prefer to use it if possible. Mangus has been a great help in working out issues related to my Dad's car.

My $0.02

Dale

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Just thinking out loud...
It sounds like the datalogging cable is drawing current from the data line and disrupting the communication between modules.
I'm not sure but it sounds strange that by monitoring, you dash displays don't read correcly. To me that sounds like its pulling the circuit down and messing up the works. I would be interested to know if that is the case. Maybe the ground of the laptop serial port is connected to the power supply ground. I've had similar experiences with other devices (not auto related)
I don't know, just pondering the thought.

conv90

The original post was about Error counts with TunerProRT in ALDL mode with a 90 vette TPI with USB connection with the craig Moates USB adapter (ALDU1).
I tried all the avices (infrared disabled, PCMCI disabled, new drivers insatalled... Thanks to all!!
... nothing cured the problem so this new thing about the possible ALDL flow problem with A/C and Dash...
This can be real!!
Even if my question was TunerProRT related I found here
http://www.ttspowersystems.com/diagnostic.htm
at the end of the page the Datamaster .PDF manual.
Download it and a page 56 (diagnosis communication problems)
and "Note to Corvette owners"
There is something A/C Heater ventilation Dash refresh problems.
I'm not so able to read english language, so I don't know if I fully understand... but it seems that 86Chicken is right.
Could someone go deep in this instructions and let me know if the problem can be related to my problem?
Thanks
-Beppe-

86Chicken

I read it over and Datamaster recommends disabling the "ALDL Handshaking" in order to make this work. I did not have to do this to make mine work however. It just worked right away.

I wonder if the logger just needs to "listen" to the port rather than "ask" for the data? Since the CCM. A/C, and ABS are already "asking" the data should be on the line all the time.

The idea about too much current draw makes sense except that Datamaster works fine with the same laptop and cable (ie. only the software is different).

conv90

Finally I downloaded Datamaster.
It works perfectly (Datamaster with Craig Moates cabl1 and ALDU1 with USB drivers).
Simply put the cable to the ALDL and run the program. Set the right port and voilà. All good at the first attempt.
The only thing not good (but it's not so important) is that during datalog the instant fuel consumption in the dash does not works. It stay fixed to the lower value all the time.
It seem that on 90 and 91 corvettes the ALDL flow is shared with the Hvac and the CCM, so no fuel consumption update. Who care?
I tried the same setup (Craig Moates CABL1 and ALDU1 with the same laptop) with TunerProRT on a '92 Z28. Even if equipped with a MSD box it works perfectly and it is able to go up to 11 recs for second.

Mangus

So I guess theres some strangeness with the '91 ('92?) vettes that needs to be taken into account to connect to the ALDL stream?

86Chicken

90 and 91 are the only '730 L98 vettes (stock anyway). 92+ were LT1, 89- were 165 except 85 I think.

I have the same problems with my 90 Vette as well. I haven 't run out of free datamaster runs yet so I wasn't too worried about it.

Dale

Mangus

Hmm. I'd love to get a serial capture of Datamaster connecting to one of these beasts so I can see what it has to do thats special to connect.

Too bad I don't know anyone with one. =(

86Chicken

I'd be happy to help if I can. I really prefer TunerPro to Datamaster and would rather have an All-In-One if possible.

Is there some software (free I hope) that I could use to get some data?

Dale

Mangus

Sure. Use portmon (Free) to monitor the (virtual) serial port your computer is using to talk with the USB ALDL adapter. Capture the serial traffic while connecting to your car with Datamaster, save the capture, and send it to me! Get it here:

http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/fr.../portmon.shtml

86Chicken

Cool beans! I should be able to get a log to you tonite (hopefully) or tomorrow morning.

Thx

86Chicken

Maybe not. My laptop went "Pfffft" last night so it will probably be early next week till I can work on it.

Stupid Windows junk.

Dale

Mangus

I'm still interested in investigating this issue further. A serial capture of Datamaster connecting would be great!

86Chicken

Unfortunately, my laptop has no more network connection (drivers missing) and since I moved I cannot find my Windows CD. This may take a while to fix. I am mainly a Mac user so I don't have too many "spare parts" for my POS Windows machines. If anyone else can jump in feel free. I am trying.

Dale

Mangus

I have someone else helping me with this and have the logs. Thanks!