SBNova

I thought I would start a new thread for those of us with Zeitronix questions, answers, and opinions. At the end of the "any interest in another wb group purchase" topic I just posted the answer to the question about where to connect the RPM signal input to. I wrote Zeitronix and here is what they said;

Zt-2 is equipped with RPM signal conditioning circuitry so you can use almost any RPM representative signal. Here are best choices in order of preference:
Clean 0-5V square wave from the ECU
Tach signal from HEI
Signal from the ECU driving the ignition transistor
Primary (LOW VOLTAGE) side of the ignition coil

Hope this helps,
Zbigniew
www.zeitronix.com

I hope we can get some opinions posted here as well, so others will know if this unit is good or not. Mine is suposed to be here today .

Roostmeyer

iTrader: (3)

Had a day off today, didn't get an extra o2 bung welded in yet, but I may pull the three wire out and give her a spin tonight anyway.

To answer a question in the other post B5 (on a 165) works great for the tach signal. According to the pin out guide I've got B5 is "DISTR REF PULSE INP" pin, purplie w/ white wire. Hope it helps a few people out.

Roostmeyer

iTrader: (3)

Used the scanning features of it tonight. The sensor wouldn't fit in my old narrowband o2 bung. The welds look great from the outside on the bung, but were too sloppy on the inside to fit the larger tip of the bosch sensor.

The scaning display of the RPM, TPS, and MAF (I used the 12th of the ZT-2 pin to log the MAF voltage) worked pretty good. The only problem I had was that the program locked up (several times) before I could ever save a scan file. I'm guessing its either because i'm not running it with the sensor hooked up, or because I'm running it on my POS laptop w/ windows 95. I had to update a .dll file just for the program to work, and I've had limited success doing that in the past. To me the program looks like crap, but as long as it works, I don't care!

89vette

Does it just display the MAP voltage? If it does is there a conversion chart to calculate voltage to KPA? The website says there is a simulated narrowband output. I'm assuming I can output this to the stock ECM so I don't have to weld in another bung?

Ken73

I'm going to hook mine up standalone when I have some free time, and see if I can't get it to use the stock MAP sensor so we don't have to buy his fancy $139 one. Granted his would be great on boosted apps, it doesn't do that much for those of us with NA cars.

I might see how hard it is to write a little program with some gauges on it, too.

89vette

Better software would be great! Keep us posted please.

Why do you have to buy a different MAP sensor? Zeitronix told me to hook up the 0-5V reference to the user1 interface. My unit did not arrive yet so I hope I am correct.

Ken73

You can do that, too; I'd just prefer to use the input that's already setup for that, and use the "user1" input for something else (like TPS.) Just a thought.

His MAP sensor is $139 - most of our cars already have a MAP sensor for the ECM, and some of us have spares, even. Kinda silly to spend that much for something you most likely already have.

I'm gonna talk to a few people and see what can be done about better software though.

89vette

I agree the software sucks. Do you think the software from the Lm1 would work since it uses serial data? I asked Zeit to consider modifying their software to display KPA based upon a 0-5 volt reference. He fist told me to use TPS to measure the load. I told him TPS does not measure load and I really don't even see the need to log it. I have not heard from him since.

BLOWN25TH

I am curious to see how this WB is working for the guys that have super charged cars? I have read a lot about this piece and went to their site but it is always nice to hear about some proof. One of my concerns about this piece is the use of the Bosch sensor because i hear the NGK is the sensor of choice. So who is having any luck recieving accurate AFR's with a forced induction intake?

Grumpy

You really need to be able to run a tap in all the way when you use a Bosch sensor. While the diameter looks like there's some room for sloop, the tip can be askew. You need all the clearance possible.

Ask me how I know........

406TPI

iTrader: (1)

I just finished installing the Zt-2......works like a champ!!! After driving only 7 miles I thought to myself...."should have bought one of these a LONG time ago!" I could see all the big holes in my current program right in front of my face (via LCD) without having to datalog and look at speadsheets for an hour

I got the LCD display with it.......which is a really nice unit I might add....very impressed with the quality of the display.

I need to dig into the Mike Davis hack to see what's that all about...it would be nice to see the w/b display on my datalogger without using the supplied software.

For those who are still wondering about the tach signal.....I used the dist. ref pin of the ecm, works great, I also tapped into the TPS signal and that works as well.

Does the Mike Davis hack work with any datalogger software., ie I currently use Diacom because it's free for me.....I'm thinking I might have to step up to Tunercat or something?
:rockon:

MTPFI-MAF

Mike Davis hack was designed to use the DIY WB02 Signal, Some modifications will proball need to be made to get it to work correctly, I seen a post here about something similar about a week ago.

Here it is, This guy is using a LM1 WB02 and Mike Davis hack and he had to adjust stuff, not sure it the Zentronics will be plug and Play. https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthread.php?
s=&threadid=248629

Just my .02

SBNova

About those bungs; I was going to buy six bungs from Zeitronix when I realized that would run me $42. I searched EBAY and found some for like $5/pr plus shipping. Much better. Then I decided to just buy a tap. It wasnt easy. Sears-no, Harbor Frieght-no, local tool supply-no. A tool supply in Tampa said one week to get one- at $23! Then I found one at Napa, for $12. If anyone needs some bungs I plan to make mine this weekend, and if the tap holds up I will sell some for cheap, like $2-$3 each shipped.

Anyway- if your in the market for the 18mm x1.5 tap , give Napa a try.

On the Map sensor thing- does anyone have a pinout or wire colors for a Map sensor? I have an old GM map sensor that I would like to hook up to the user input.

Bill usn-1

I go to the help rack in the local parts store and buy the 18mm anti foulers. Then I just cut to length with my cutoff wheel!!!

cheap/easy.

poncho@home

OK...so I setup the unit this morning....compared it to the LM1, they were off by .1-.2 AFR, LM1 showed 13.2 Zeitronix showed 13.4....so very happy with this unit thus far taking into consideration both units +- tolerances...

Also the 0-5v out is great, simply use a multimeter as a stand alone display....no need for the PC.

Also the display on the PC is nice because it shows the trend...so you can see quickly if you went richer or leaner in the last few seconds...better then simply seeing a number constantly changing back and forth like the LM1 unit....no need to log at logs to see what happened 3 seconds ago...I like it!!!

1 thing I noticed is that after my car warmed up I was running very rich at idle...13.4...now I wasn't plugged in to see if it was open loop or closed but I got some tuning to do!!! BTW my blms at idle are usually lean!!!!!

Thus far first impressions.....excellent value for the money

Ken73

Bill and I are modifying our little display, too, so you can make one of those pretty cheap and use the 0-5v output. I'll have some specs later on for it.

SBNova

I got mine up and running yesterday. I too like the display, running accross the screen showing the last few seconds. The tach feature was simple. I added a length of wire with an alligator clip on the end. I just clipped the green wire to my autometer tach and voila!
I built a pipe contraption very similiar to the one pic'd by someone on one of these posts. My idle afr seemed VERY lean, pegging at over 20:1. This was on a carbed car with a lumpy 110lsa cam 242@050 so I think it was drawing in outside air. I have 9-10 inches of pipe past the sensor by the way for anyone interested. Raise the throttle slightly and it goes to the 13 and 14's. I think its the extra exhust flow that makes the difference. Im going to install a bung in the next few days to be sure. I'll post my results when I do so everyone making a universal tailpipe adapter can benefit.

So far I am VERY happy. For my carb'd car there was simply no other way to collect so much data. No to try it on the SC EFI Vette..........

Grumpy

What next?, an ecm bench?

Not trying to be sarcastic like that Moates guy is..........

406TPI

iTrader: (1)

Grumpy....I know, I know..you guys have been preaching about the benifits of a W/B for a long time......I just couldn't bring myself to part with the money until a good friend of mine gave me a Super Ram to put on my car. They said only on one condition though....I have to baseline my current set-up first and then do a direct swap to get the numbers. Then we will be able to see how big of a benifit a SR will be. How could I argue with that

ben73

Mine will be here in a few days.. I really can't wait to have a play with this new toy ;-)

Br1dgeman

Used mine last night and am happy with the performance. I seem to have a bit of "scatter" on the rpm graph, but, I have not had any problems with the software locking up. One thing that I am not that crazy about is that the software does not display anything unless you are data logging. Maybe the optional lcd screen is different. It will still help me get the tune that much better though, so I will not complain....

SBNova

I just did some datalogging on my carb'd Nova. All I can say is WOW. Let me re-quote someone above- I shouldve bought this a long time ago. I thought my car ran pretty good, now I know it can run better. My part throttle cruise was like 13.3, and WOT was like 12.7-12.8. It looks like Ive got some more mpg waiting for me, and the numbers at the track may improve as well.

I like the way you review the data. Scrolling accross like that is second nature to me- Im a Paramedic and its just like watching an EKG. I too wish it would display on the laptop while not logging, but I hooked up the volt meter to the analog WB output and it displays the voltage- I just need to get the mindset of what equals what I guess. If someone came up with a simple LED display to run from the analog WB voltage that would be great.

I didnt have a TPS on the Nova (non- ECM car), but I have the RPM, and I hooked up a MAP sensor to the user input using the yellow 5v, the brown sensor ground, and the blue input wire. Works like a champ. The MAP is probably just like the TPS display anyway.

Did I say I love this thing???!!!

onebinky

iTrader: (1)

IIRC, this is how it goes:

Green-signal voltage
Grey-5v reference voltage
black-ground

ben73

I installed and used mine this morning and it is FANTASTIC!!

Like some of the other guys, I'd like a few more features in the software. The ability to scale the user input to match whatever you are connecting to it would be nice. It would also be nice to be able to set 0 and 100% voltages for the TPS to bring it into line..
Like everyone else, "I should have bought one long ago!!" ;-)

SBNova

Has anyone gotten the "copy" feature to work? Maybe I am doing it all wrong, I dunno?

It says in "help" that keyboard letter "c" will copy, but it doesnt seem to work. I dont know how to "paste", or even where to "paste" it to. I tried opening a data log file, and while viewing it I hit "c". Then I tried opening a new file (in Zeitronix, looks like a blank screen- no data) and I cant seem to paste it. It says it copies to clipboard, but where is this clipboard? I treid to copy to notepad, but that didnt work either.

I am hoping it will copy just the screen currently displayed, so I can store just that screen, or print just that screen.

I asked Zeitronix, and they said "yes, its the same as copy", so I just wrote back asking them to elaborate.

ben73

I emailed Zeitronix and asked about the possibility of a software upgrade. I particularly asked about scaling the TPS and user inputs as my TPS is set correctly, but read from 9-95% on the zeitronix datalog.
They replied same day with a new version that auto scales these 2 inputs. Its not available on their website yet, dunno why??
Here's the lnk ;-)
http://www.zeitronix.com/images/ZDL_...ationFiles.zip

SBNova

Ben73, thanks for the link. I downloaded and installed it, but when looking at a recent scan file- it appears the same. Does it auto scale when logging? Is there a procedure for scaling it, like showing the program what idle is and what WOT is??

poncho@home

I am having difficulty with the RPM pickup. I have a wire from the distributor tach signal to the green on the ZT unit, and its getting data but "garbled" it shows anywhere from 400-3000 at idle. It's almost like it is showing random numbers....

I checked at the settings in the software are at 8 cyclinder. Anyone else have a similar problem? This is on a '81 350 Z28


I will also email zeitronix

SBNova

Mine reads a little "jagged" at idle too. I dont know if my numbers are as severe as what you report though. I figured it was like my EKG monitor at work- it estimates the heart rate by the distance measured between heart beats. I figured that with my lumpy idle, the sample rate was faster than the cylinders were firing, calculating the RPM by the time interval between two cylinders firing, which - with a lumpy cam, is irregular, and displays as inconsistent numbers. In my car I didnt pay too much attention to the idle figures for RPM, but once I gave it a little gas, or was driving down the road, the tach display smoothed out.

An example, using heart rate on my EKG monitor at work would be;
If you have a heart rate of 60 beats per minute, you have one beat per second. If that next beat occurs 1.1 seconds from the previous, the displayed heart rate is now 54, if it occurs .1 second early, it is displayed at 66. So the displayed rate can vary greatly with a variance of only +/- 0.1 seconds, and that is with a relatively slow rate of 60/minute. I imagine that at engine speeds this could cause the quite an error in the displayed value.

poncho@home

even getting on the gas doesn't seem to correct the issue, only magnifies it

ben73

Look under the "view" menu..
Ben.

SBNova

Ben73,
Got it (the scaling part of the new software). I sure would like to be able to define the range of the user1 input though, change it from a voltage reading to a percent. I am using it for MAP, and it would be nice if I could label it in percents of load. On my carb'd car I dont have a TPS, this was the easiest fix. Do you think I could just use the TPS input for the MAP? Theyre both 0-5v right? Hmmmm.........

ben73

I also use the spare input for map.
The MAP and TPS almost replicate each other. The only real difference is the fact that the MAP responds with a bigger bounce when you boot it. In your shoes, I would definately try it connected to the TPS input...
I can email you one of my logs if you wanna see how the 2 relate to each other?
email me at ben_p@bigpond.net.au if you want to see....
Ben.

poncho@home

Well I tried it on another car...it seemed to work fine.

The question is why is it so off on the first car? I am picking it up from the tach signal on the HEI distributor.

Also I happen to have a Fluke inductive pickup. Anyway to get that to work with this unit?

adambros

iTrader: (2)

to clarify this statement . . .
the RPM input signal can be tapped from the ECM pin B5 | PPL/WHT | DISTR REF PULSE INP ?
just want to be sure before i go tapping ecm wires.

406TPI

iTrader: (1)

Correct.

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

Thought I'd bring this back to life.

I plan on buying the Zt-2 and using it to replace my NB sensor using the controllers simulated narrowband output to feed my stock ECM. Anyone here done this?

Anyone one here run this into the ECM to get the raw signal into the data stream for prgrams like say TunerPro RT?

Why get the LCD display when the controller has a readout on it?

EDIT: You know all I'd really like is a simple piece of hardware that will just output a simulated narrowband output to feed my stock ECM and a hack so that TunerPro RT will show the AFR of the WB in the data stream instead of using an LCD readout...

SBNova

92GTA-
It doesnt have a readout, of anything viewable, without being hooked up to a laptop or having the optional LCD. I dont have the LCD, I just use my laptop.

406TPI

iTrader: (1)

Why get the LCD display when the controller has a readout on it?


The controller does not have a display on it. The controller is simply a black square box that you plug everything into. The box with the display you see on the website is the optional LCD display. In my own opinion, it's worth the extra cash for it. I have had this unit in my car for about a month now and I have only had the laptop hooked up to it once......I just use the LCD display and watch my datalogs of the ecm to coordinate the two....alittle less acurate, but it's better than having two laptops sitting in the passenger seat This is the way I'll do it until I figure out something better.

I have not yet tried to run the "simulated narrow band output" into the ecm yet.

SBNova...beat me by a minute

Mastiff

I know this is an old thread, but it was the closest. I'm just starting to look at the Zt-2 and it looks great for what I want. I'm not clear on whether the sensor will plug right in where my current NB is though. Will it? It'll be a bummer if I need a new bung, or even to permanently modify it so there's no going back if the NB output feature doesn't work for some reason.

adambros

iTrader: (2)

I dont think the WB will fit in your stock O2 bung, nor will the NB output be compatible if your running the stock ecm. I could be wrong but I thought i remebered reading that somewhere in these threads.

SBNova

I dont have a third gen, but on my vette the nb vs. wb thread size seems the same, so it should screw right in. I use mine with a tailpipe adapter that I made, so it can quickly and easily swap into any car, including my pre- EFI Nova. As for the nb output, I havent tried that, but I have read about many that have and they say it works.

7Point4

Just recieved my ZT-2, and so far am impressed with what I got.

Of course, the 2 inches of ice, sleet and snow cramped my tuning attempts, but oh well.

So, most are using the User input for reading the MAP?

adambros

iTrader: (2)

Here's the thread I was remebering regarding using the nb input https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=265033
It looks like a few people have done it.

Mastiff

It looks like people have all had success plugging the NB output of the ZT-2 into their existing computer, I was mostly just worried about the physical hole size and threading of the sensor itself. I want the one that comes with the ZT-2 to fit in the factory sensor bung.

406TPI

iTrader: (1)

It fits fine, same size and thread

SBNova

On my Nova (non-EFI) I have the user input running a map sensor- it almost exactly resembles a TPS, and I have the rpm, and WB reading of course. Its EXCELLENT for tuning. Make sure you either have MAP or TPS, so you can see throttle mvements and self-calculate load with it by referring to RPM.

7Point4

Ok. I got it hooked up and reading. Was really easier than I thought.

Hooked the MAP up to the User input. Also hooked up TPS and RPM. Now if the snow would just melt so I can have some fun.

Again, Nice unit.

Doward

So what's teh story? Any interest in another GP? I, for one, will be all into that!

Mastiff

Got my ZT-2 yesterday. I'm a little uncertain about how to hook up the simulated narrowband - maybe someone who has done it can help me out?

What I'd like to do is not hack into my existing harness and just adapt to the 3-wire weatherpak connector that currently goes to my 3-wire heated O2. I figure I can get switched power from there as well.

What I want to do is mount the ZT-2 inside, then run the regular wideband cable out to the O2 sensor itself, then also run the wires for switched power and simulated narrowband out to mate with the existing O2 sensor connector from my 7747 ECM. I can get switched power from the wire going to the heater, and the narrowband O2 wire is also obvious.

The thing I'm confused about is "power ground" vs. "sensor ground". I thought sensor ground was really the same as chassis ground with the 3-wire O2 - doesn't it ground through the pipes? Two of the wires are consumed with the heater, so only one wire is left for the O2 signal itself. So should I connect the ZT-2 sensor ground to the ground wire currently going to the narrowband O2, or is it all just the same as chassis ground anyway?

By the way, how do people generally hook into the RPM and TPS for logging purposes? Do you have to cut up the harness or is there a less invasive way to do this?

Thanks for any help.