Z69

You lost me...
I think your confusing S_AUJP and Super8DM_2.
One is a bin, which is not the point of this thread. And only values were changed in, not the address of the value which would affect the definition.
The other is a definition for a bin editor.
How can you have a pure definition. Excluding math errors in the conversions. Which probably came from the ANHT hac.
I guess you could say the point of this thread is to get a most accurate xdf for everyone to use. Part of this is including currently available patches in the xdf. What to do with modded bins and the xdf is being discussed offline between us currently. Not Trying to be a smart a.., just been up for 18hrs and shorter on tact than usual.

3.8TransAM

lol no offense taken :-)

Maybe it didnt come out as clear as I thought it was in my head.

I am just liking the view of okay you have a speed density tpi u start here.

Like the Super$8DM-2 version. A correct format that has the most complete and known calculations and tables etc. Which looks like the version that you guys are currently trying to build.

More of a tunercat type approach where if u are using "x" then u start with "y". Anything after that is to be patched or a new version.

The many many versions of xdf/ecu files is kind of scary. Some are real good and parts and pieces combined from several almost made more or less complete ecu/ads files. The only truly correct part of the equation I have is an ADS file, I hand edited with Rbob being my guardian angel over my shoulder and some more testing until convinced it was right and matched other loggers.

I think we are on the same page, just having blurry vision trying to read it to each other lol

And yes I did screw up and inlude Super AUJP as a xdf when it is a bin :-)

later
Jeremy

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Well one issue is that SOME functions in $8D are not used in others.
The rev limiter in AUJP, The oil temp in ANHT, there is also the manual trans and CARS stuff that is difficult to decifer and make a single all inclusive file.
I believe we are closer than ever to having a full up version.
IMO, Making 2-3 different ones is a nightmare waiting to happen.
I stand that one file should rule!!
The names were alphabetized but I used names that were not common to other programs. That was the major concern or it would be out already. I was actually concerned that my calcs were all correct for some new items that I added, The naming was something that came up in the process.
It almost seems that the files may end up being "mask specific" pure base files, then add the patched items to each like the extended table to 6400, or AUJP specific code change for the rev limiter.
I run AUJP and went through my hack and the ANHT to make my file. 69Ghost had previously done it using ANHT and others while comparing the names to PP and TC to keep everyone on some level ground.
Thats the objective for this next generation file.
101% agree, the ADS must come with it although I do not think there is as many differences in the output as there are code differences in the bins.

91Z28-350

I'd vote for an all inclusive one. For newbs, basically, if you don't know what that field does, don't touch it. I downloaded the _2 file and am using that now because it's laid out nicer than my own hacked up file. I did have to add extra fields to the _2 file, mainly some flags, PID stuff, and O2 constants because I'm trying to transition from my converted AUJP T-56 bin (stock was AUJP on my car) to the AXCN bin.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

the ecu files i have been using are mainly super_8dm2, 8d_v03 & sometimes 1227730_8d, & 730_atta, each has things i like or is easier for me to read as i am such a noob at this.
i do agree there needs to be consistency with the naming of items. if nothing else, maybe a text file that comes with the XDF with what things are what.
but, im not sure if there can be just 1 XDF file that would work for everyone, im in the USA & im not good with the metric system. for temps, i like fahrenheit over celsius. but, for pressure, i prefer kPA over PSI.
im just starting to learn how to edit things in the ADS file, but i have a ways to go before i touch anything in the ECU or XDF files. unless im reading about how hex works, i get lost looking at it as soon as i open it
how ever many there winds up being, i do think it/they need to be as complete as possible. it makes the learning curve alittle steeper for those just starting out, but i feel it would be better for everyone in the long run.

on the ADS file, i use first third gen1227730, of which i am making a few changes to. hey, im american

my hat is off to you guys who sit there & do this stuff. without you & this site, i would have never gotten into chip burning & i would be one of those getting ripped off by the so called "performance" chip companies & never getting what i wanted or needed from them. thanks

EdgesZ28

I could offer little input into this project. However, I would love to help build a manual for this particular ECU file.
Click here to see the manual.

I use $8D and the Super_8dm2 ECU for the little tuning I do. The vast majority of constants, flags and tables are greek to me. And for the most part, I am sure I have no need to modify them.

But as I monitor this forum, I see many questions regarding a particular table or constant. "What does this do? And, "What or how do changes affect a particular function, and is it related to something else?" A good example is the constant - "Spark Advance Base Temp. Correction Table Bias". Up until this recent thread, I did not understand its function.

The Super_8dm manual could compile and organize all these answers. But quite frankly, I am concerned about publishing something that is simply not accurate. If anyone would like to offer help, simply send me a PM or Email. Thanks, Ed.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

I have included many more notes on the items that I know what they do from researching the hacs but there are still unknowns.
With that, At least you have "some" good info to pass on and can mark the "unknowns" as such so people know that investigation is still needed to determine the effective changes that are caused by altering the value.
I'll shoot you the latest "pre-release" so you can have a jump start on it. The item names may change but the descriptions "should" still remain the same.

FYI, I did have a look at the TC file yesterday and it is pretty scrambled when looking in the editor. Printing the current XDF and going back over naming conventions now.
Jp

69 Ghost

iTrader: (1)

I am starting to wonder if anybody has looked at the comments section of Super 8dm. I have included what I knew -mostly stuff that was taken directly off the forum. If there is one place that I think work could be done it is here. I am sure most people are aware that I included formulas and calculations where and when possible. I also added the info as to where S_AUJP was modified. There are tables that I have not touched and probably never will but it would be nice if some of the people that are willing to do work would take a portion of the definition and research it. Maybe something like if you need to do this then use this table. Changing the parameters will have this effect, etc. I have included that on the VE tables and Injector constants but the stuff like Spark Latency Correction.... anybody want to take a stab at some of these? As for the ecu's mentioned super_8dm2 was created by comparing all the ecu's, 8d_v03, 1227730_8d, & 730_atta. Plant Protections (8d_v03) was the best and closest to being 100% correct. He was further along than I was but I was almost done so I continued with Super_8dm rather than adopt his. We did exchange info. It appears that he has disappeared since last year. His definitions are in degrees F but I chose to continue with degreees C due to the hac and add the conversion tables in the comments. The other definitions left much to be desired. I found numerous mistakes in the others and spent countless hours checking those items to the ANHT hac.

91Z28-350

I looked at it briefly, I did notice a mistake in one table, but I can't recall which. I normally work with a hac or a disassembled version open (since I'm using axcn now, I use a disassembled version). I cross-reference everything through the code, unfortunately, I don't have the familiarity to go through it all without source code.

69 Ghost

iTrader: (1)

Ed I just took a look at your link. I like what I see and let's get this manual going which was my original intent but I was planning on having TP include it in the documentation. A good place to start is to take the original comments from Super 8dm2 as read from a text file. This is due to the new XDF definition cutting off the comments fields when it is converted. You can also look at this in a pre V4 TP version. General comments, formulas, info work. Links could also be added to the general areas for further help.

Mangus

I plan to increase the comments field to unlimited length soon.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

There are many new comments already added for the things I researched but still more should be added.
I've done them like this to explain the function as best I could.
Some of the easier to figure out ones were left blank.

Looking at the the names in TC hurts my head. Its a pain to go back and forth.
Alot of them are the same, with a "prefix" added to sort them better.
Do you really think the names/organization of that file is that bad?
I'm still going to reconfirm each of them but want a better feel on how to make the conventions match better (even if it means scrambling them ???)
I don't know how anyone can keep thier sanity when looking at the TC editor. Once you find what your looking for its better but I like to sort by address and names. I'm new to TC but already prefer TunerPro for editing and calculations.
( to Magnus)

Synapsis

Anyone have a copy of this file? It's not on Moates' site and all the links for defs at Tunerpro's site 404.

Mangus

The link in your reply works just fine for me. What am I missing?

Synapsis

Try this:

http://www.supportfitness.com/mark/t...Super_8dm2.ecu

vernw

iTrader: (2)

That one's not working either....

We can get to the site, but clicking on the file gives you:

Not Found
The requested URL /mark/tunerpro/download/BinDefs/Super_8dm2.ecu was not found on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

Mangus

Come on now, guys. The original link works fine. Here:

http://tunerpro.markmansur.com/downloadBinDefs.htm

Sheesh!

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Mark, I can follow that link to the web page, but the above error occurs when you try to click on the Super_8dm2.ecu link on that page. Possibly a permissions problem on your site/page?

None of the ECU links work, and the two 1227165_160.ads links give the same errors....

Mangus

Ugh, my fault. Fixed.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

uh-uh - not yet, still getting the same error message....

wanna take this to e-mail?

Mangus

go to the page, hit reload (don't forget that pages are cached by your browser).

I verified the fix before I replied. ;-)

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Uh, I cleared all temp internet files, opened a new browser, went to link page, and still get same error if I pick an ECU file link....

Mangus

Uh (I love the "uh"s), not sure what to tell you. It works.

http://tunerpro.markmansur.com/downloadBinDefs.htm

Hit reload. Click on the $8D definition link.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

The 8D ads link has always wirked, but I'm stillgetting the error for the Super_8dm2.ecu link. You can e-mail me at vern.walls@parsons.com to discuss further. I don't mind trying to help resolve this....

69 Ghost

iTrader: (1)

Guys if you email me I will send you a XDF directly. I have worked on the Super_8dm fixing 2 tables that had scaling issues due to the old limitations. I have also removed invalid flags that get added in the conversion. TunerPro fixed a limitation to the item comments that got cut in the transition with earlier XDF conversions but I have not updated the comments to reflect this nor tested. I will post a new updated version soon as I get the rest in line. There were 2 issues that I wanted to include some WB hac stuff and the newer VE tables. For the hac the Davis WB hac that AFR Tuner uses would probably be all that is included. The VE tables? Z69 has provided some extended tables don't know if what is firming up on that side. I went back to the normal patched 6400 table until there is some kind of consensus. Any comments suggestions as it seems everybody just takes the definition and does whatever to it without any feedback. Mark maybe it's time to include a new XDF link page?

Mangus

You'll notice the page format is already changing. I'll update as I have time.

Vern - it works. Trust me. The ECU link works great. See image.

Synapsis

It just started working 15 minutes ago.

And just in case whatever happened happens again, I have the file at:

http://www.blackcow.org/ecm/Super_8dm2.ecu

Mangus

Thanks. The trouble with mirroring files like that is they often change. Having 30 different versions on 30 different servers is not a good thing.

Synapsis

Having one version in one place go unavailable isn't either, as we have seen. You can implement a version system where a main server has the most current version in case someone wants to check for it, but the file is still available for people to use elsewhere.

Mangus

It wasn't down for long. Version information is stored in the XDF file. Of course, I am by no means a controlling factor. Do what you will!

(In fact, I'd rather not even host the files [takes up way too much of my time as it is], but a majority of users aren't familiar enough with things to hunt down supporting files themselves. So having them on my site is the next best solution).

69 Ghost

iTrader: (1)

When I originally posted Super_8dm I did it here so that it wouldn't be in 20 places. Mark if you don't want to host it I can put in on the Moates site.

Mangus

If I'm going to host files, I'd rather host it too. ;-)

69 Ghost

iTrader: (1)

All,
I want to post a XDF version of Super8dm in the near future. Mangus reports that the comments field is corrected the limitation in size. I have a updated ECU to XDF conversion that removes unused bits and fixes 2 tables that use scalars which were wrong in the old ECU due to the scalar limitation. I have started to work on adding to the definitions. JP86SS and Z69 have done most of the work here and deserve credit. I may be a bit selective here to only include what is would truely be needed by everyone and at the same time try to leave out what may not be needed. JP86SS added every constant, table, etc that the newer AUJP hac has including constants that set the error codes. I want to add definitions for the latest Super AUJP patches also that users are using in their bins. This will include the extended VE tables, and WBO2 tables, etc. Maybe we can include mention or tie in the Bin patches, etc with the definition? First step is to compare what he has and come up with a difference XDF so the new items can easily be decided upon. I should have this completed in the next day or so. If anybody is interested in helping out or has comments please respond. A response to anything that anyone has added to their Super8dm ECU/XDF and used would be a good start.

Synapsis

Identify the Super-AUJP only definitions so people who are running just the standard AUJP don't get confused.

Z69

Sounds easy... Ghost & I have gone round and round on that one. Protecting the innocent was a large consideration in what to include. JP & I sorta agreed on not having everything in there as it's a little overwhelming. Mangus said a future TP release will help on that front. I've seen at least one post by someone having difficulty editing the stock ve2 in his S_aujpV3 bin.
The stock VE2 doesn't work in V3 btw. Ghost wanted to include my ve patch(s) in his release. But we could never agree on how to avoid confusion. Among a few other things.

Might want to consider an 8D.xdf and a Super_8D.xdf till TP feature creep makes another appearance.

69 Ghost

iTrader: (1)

z69 I just sent you a reply. I would prefer to leave the lower table in it's stock location and then patch VE2 and/or VE3 to a new location like the original VE patch to 6400RPM. This allows me to give the extended tables a slightly different naming convention just like Super8dm2.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Have to admit, i dropped the ball on fixing the names within the new file to get it released faster and am glad its not a dying subject. I can live with what I have but really want to get a good file out in public so all can be on the same footing.

Would be nice to see a AUJP specific but as I've found it is only 1 of several $8D configurations. The code has all of the various settings for many functions that are not used between different vehicles and the mask has to be able to cover them. By including everything in the calibration (and some common code) areas, anything can be altered. We know the danger in that but I feel it will spark more investigation by others to clarify the operation and function. If its not there, it will never be investigated ??
A "standard" release file is also a good idea for the commonly used items and would be much better for beginners. (I still consider myself a beginner) I just figured out how to make the file, not how to operate it
I'm still in the picture on helping but my schedule is going to crap in Sept.

All in all there could end up being 5-6 releases or documented mods to use all of the available patches.
I might suggest starting with a "working" standard definition and then having some docs that go with it describing the fields and settings to add the appropriate patch information. Make the effort much more modular for the user that only needs to add his specific patches.
Any thoughts ??

Sorry I won't be able to respond to this till at least Tuesday (Still in Amsterdam .. ) so firgive me if I've opened Pandora's box on this.
John

69 Ghost

iTrader: (1)

I understand your concerns. I am more interested in the patches currently used. As long as definitions for any patch does not interfere or replace current definition locations they can be added without any fear. If patches replace an area it should be of an existing patch for the same functionality. IE a WBO2 patch for one type of sensor as opposed to another. When a def like the VE table in it's stock location gets replaced in that same location the problems occur because users may not want the patched table. With that being said all patches should be located to new unused areas to eliminate confusion, errors,etc.

On a second note I agree that I would/should include everything. The only problem is things get cluttered, and confusing etc. Mangus has talked future functionality about being able to hide items and group them in the definition at will. If the functionality comes along soon then that is the way to go. JP86SS has uncovered some interesting stuff like additional transmission parameters. Until then?

tail

Not trying to add more to this, but what about a good set of aldl defs to go with this great ecu (or xdf)?

Z69

One thing at a time.

BIG_MODS

iTrader: (9)

Is this dead?

Should I use V4 or is V3 safer for newb?

69 Ghost

iTrader: (1)

If you are referring to SAUJP then V4 has some definate advantages. Super $8d was just a defintion for AUJP to try to capture it at a time when there were a lot of others that were incomplete. SAUJP has ecu definitions that are released with the bin.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

i do recommend V4, its much better than the stock AUJP or V2~3 bins.
they did a ton of work on it.
the wideband O2 input in the data stream matches almost perfectly what the logging software shows for my ZT2. i think the very small difference between them is because of the difference in logging speeds. the ZT2 software logs at a faster rate.
if you get S_AUJP_V4, make sure you get both the zip files for it from Moates, the 2 files are, S_AUJP_V4 1024.zip & S_AUJP_V4 Inputs.zip
there are a number of changes from V3 to V4, use only the def files that come with V4 for V4, & be sure to read the document files.
also get the most current version of ScannerPro & load the V4 def file for it & have a look at the different dashes JP put in it.

a big thanks to you guys for V4, it rocks

novass

iTrader: (1)

I read thru the docs on the S_AUJP_V4 and am still a bit confused on how to set this up to be used with a manual tranny?

Who is running this with a manual?

Thanks

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

VernW was the only one testing that I'm aware of.
He worked with Z69' quite a bit and has good results running the stick.
Might shoot him a PM to see if he has any particulars that might help.

novass

iTrader: (1)

I PM'd him, thanks

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Can you post what the outcome is when you talk to him. I just put a 6spd in my car and I need to switch bins now. It's been a few years since I ran $8D with a manual, so I need a new starting point

-- Joe

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

The IAC control is the biggest difference between the manual and auto bins.
As I recall, There are changes in the V4 bin to make the IAC work as in the manual bins. Some of the code from manual bins was added to be selectable when desired. Additionally, the use of IAC values from tables in manual bins was needed to make the operation smoother. There is no "good" set of values that will operate both modes.
I don't have a stick car and didn't have a good feel for what was really different between the values so I can't help allot there.
In the docs I put what bins Z69' had suggested for use to copy the values from but did not get the addreses of the table to use.
I would suggest doing a compare of your original bin with the V4 set for manual and then reuse some of the IAC settings.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Sorry for the delay getting back to everyone on this, been sort of tied up on other stuff the last few weeks. Was told my position the account I work on was not being funded for 2008, so I've been scrambling trying to find another job. Was lucky enough to find a spot that needed a senior engineer on a different/new 10-yr $400m contract/account, so I'll be moving offices (and e-mail address) in the next few days. At least I'm not losing the 14 years seniority I have with my company (altho that doesn't count for much other than vacation time any more <sigh> )

The changes Scott (Z69) did in V4 for the manaul tranny are primarily throttle follower and a few other IAC things - in addition to the type of tranny flag you are using. The reason for that is the code is different for the two tranny types, it is not just calibration value changes. So you will have to be using V4 with the manual option selected to get the benefit of the calibration changes.

Now, that being said, I'm extremely pleased with the way V4 has been running. I've been testing it for John and Scott in some version or another for almost a year. We ALL owe them both a HUGE THANKS!!!!

So, drop me a PM if you want the latest calibration data for the manual tranny V4. I'll give you an e-mail addy to send your current bin to and I'll return it with my V4 IAC stuff inserted into it along with the log file showing the changes made. That is the least I can do to show my appreciation for all the work they've done on this. I should be able to return it to you within a few days, no more than a week for sure. Keep in mind you will most likely still have to "fine tune" it for your particular set up. I'm running a 450+ HP (crank) MiniRam'ed 383 with AFR 195 Eliminator heads and a 58mm throttle body and CAI, so your settings may vary a little.

RPOL98

does V4 require a wideband O2, or can it be used with the factory O2 sensor?