11sORbust

I use to think the same way. But now I can see that anything I go through, bruce did it 10-20 yrs ago. You might disagree with his approach. But when you are older, things are much different. Watch american hot rod (a show on cable). That show will explain everything.

Craig Moates

:rockon:

JohnL

Full credit to Black87c4. I've seen quite a few people give and take offense on this board, but Black87c4 is the first who's shown the character to apologise. You can't build a community on arrogance, but you can on humility. Well done *wipes tear from eye*.

John

TRAXION

You should see some of the backend e-mail conversations where Glenn and I argued to reinstate him ... and argued for KVU ... even after all the negative stuff that happened. Contrary to what some believe - a lot goes on behind the scenes where we'll stick up for people that have made a real effort to be a good human being. I honestly would never have thought that Tim (11sOrBust, kvu, formula5, etc.) would be a decent person. You should have seen the harsh, negative, and supremely insulting comments that he made regarding Bruce, Glenn, and me. They were really really bad ... I mean REALLY bad. But, yet, here he is. What am I getting at? Well, this forum - the DIYPROM forum - definitely has the most drama out of all the forums on this site (IMHO). However, at the same time, I think it is one of the most helpful and forgiving boards here. It sucks because I usually get the brunt of everything. That's my complaint. That's my bitching. No matter what happens, I am always caught in the middle. No matter what I do - I'm gonna **** somebody off. That's just the name of the game. Problem is ... I'll eventually **** off everybody. Think about it. If I'm always caught in the middle ... then I'll eventually **** everybody off because somebody can't be right all of the time. So, for example, I might side with Bruce on many occasions. But, I'll eventually side against him because it is not possible to always be in agreement. I would love it if some people would just say to me ... "Tim, I don't agree so lets just agree to disagree and continue with this hobby". But, I don't usually get that - lol. Another example would be this exact post. It was a good idea that I left it open. However, when I did this in the past I had some very well known people e-mail me and yell at me for not closing it. This time those people aren't saying anything but others are. Oh well. That's the price to pay for moderating a board. You'll eventually **** everybody off.

Tim

novass

iTrader: (1)

hey Tim, you haven't pissed me off yet...

TRAXION

It's only a matter of time. I guess I should just apologize now. I'm sorry for pissing you off novass. lmao.

Tim

11sORbust

That is the main problem here. Somebody will always complain. What kind of reasonable person would bitch about this thread? Really!! Maybe if somebody has a problem then post it here, in this thread. Go ahead and get it off your chest. Nobody will argue with you why the thread shouldn't be closed(I think). If you feel that way then we'll listen WHY you don't like this thread. Because complaining to Tim is just a burden on his shoulders. I feel bad for him when he comes in here and has to stop some monkeys from bumping heads. Or listen to people bitch about this or that. I think he would rather spend his time doing something constructive.

I have learned that directly confronting the person via email or PM is the best way to resolve internet disagreements. 1 on 1 communication will get you much farther than a public comment (that might inadvertently insult the person). Really, it doesn't matter what you say to someone IF that person has respect for you. Bad analogy: My family can directly insult me and I will not get bent out of shape. Yesterday my brother said I need hair club for men. It was funny and not exactly true. But if "just some ***"on the net said the same thing, I wouldn't like it.

Sorry for ranting soo much. I'm sure I look like a retard bout now

SATURN5

You mean something like this??



just kidding.. I couldn't resist.. < ducks >

BW (just another **** on the net)

jeepguy553

OH ****!!! That looks like my ex-wife's mother...hell...it might look like my ex-wife. I haven't seen her in 10 years...

JohnL

1) The is the best techo forum on the whole internet One of the reasons why is that the moderation is so good. That doesn't mean I have to agree with all the decisions that are made. I'm glad I don't have to work out whether to cut the baby in 2 vertically or horizontally.

2) I think you have to put up with too much at times, but I'm sure you have big shoulders! Those of us who appreciate the work you do in moderating this forum no doubt have had it cross our minds at times what a thankless task it can be, and how easy it would be to get discouraged at times. I know you're not looking for thanks, but thanks a heap anyway. The reason I found this forum is because someone on some forgetable other site posted a link to "the best PROM burning article there is", and here I am. Everyone knows what that is, and it's still the best. People do notice.

3) The difference between leaving this post open and leaving (probably 2 other) counter-productive posts open is that people aren't being directly, personally abusive. You rightly said (point 1) that this site is forgiving, but only following repentance (I mean a change of mind). I'm sure you'll continue to kick people off who cross that abusive line.

Thanks for sticking at it Tim, and RBob, JPrevost, Glenn and any other moderators I may have missed.

John

JP84Z430HP

I would like to thank all the pioneers, old school, and current for all their hard work on this stuff. I would love to be of some help, but most of what I'm learning has already been figured out. I don't totally consider myself a lurker, I TRY to contribute what I can, but as I've already said, it has mostly been done before. I don't consider myself a leecher because I try to expand on what I've gotten, and I don't try to make any money from this stuff (I would probably lose money if I tried anyway!) I consider myself a "learner" as was stated earlier.

Craig, MrBill, Mangus, Ken73, and any others that are making some awesome products for this stuff, a big thanks to you, and you guys deserve to make some money from this, you have put a great deal of time into the development of hardware and software that is of great use to us.

As for the tuning and efi stuff that this board is all about, thanks to Grumpy, Funstick, 11's, Trax, Glenn, the list goes on a long way...

Now fo rmy complaints.....

Everyone needs to pay attention to the way Grumpy (and a few others) says things....Many times he is just trying to get you to do some of the thinking to make you better understand stuff.

The weather in Ohio sucks! I hate having my Camaro sitting in the garage for a few months at a time. The -10 degree temperatures (before wind chill) aren't very nice either. Do you southerners even have any idea of what wind chill is? I know, I'm the ID-10T that stays here!

I hate paying all my bills. I would rather be putting the money into my car and truck!

I also hate working on imports. Too bad I can't avoid it, unless I go to work at a different shop!

I hate getting up in the morning.

I really hate running out of beer when I want just 1 more!

Ok I'll stop now..... Really, though, I COULD go on!

jeepguy553

Can I get an AMEN??? True words of wisdom spoken here!!!

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

But no matter how many beers I have I always want just one more!

jeepguy553

Me too. I just packed a quart back...and I am about to go get another one.
Beers to ya!!!

Guest

Age doesnt count for excuses.

TRAXION

Thanks for all the encouragement John. It's very much appreciated. I wanted to comment on this specific comment (above).

When I started my trip into PROM programming the information was scattered across the internet. Yes, people had been programming PROMs for GM ECMs for a long time but NOWHERE was there information on the most basic task; namely, how to actually get the new program into your car! Nowhere was there information on what you needed. Nowhere did it explain about what is on the chip in your car. Nowhere did it explain about EPROM programmers and erasers. It was truly a black magic community and only those 'in the know' were doing it. Eventually I figured out how to do it. This information was received from many various sources ... GMECM Mailing lists, Dirk (owner of TGO), etc. The natural thing to do (for me) was to then compile this information to make it available for anyone else who wanted to try to do this. I thought this was a great idea ... AND IT WAS. A lot of the people who had been doing this for awhile were NOT happy that I wrote the article. I had now single handedly revealed their secrets ... and/or stole their thunder. Oh well. I'm just happy that I helped people because I know how difficult it was to figure this stuff out with the information so scattered.

Where is this going? If ANYBODY out there notices a lack of information or a lack of finding information then you can do something about it. As Nike would say - Just do it!

Tim

11sORbust

Why not come clean and site your grief? If you continue to have harsh feelings it'll never get resolved. Not sure if the "other guy" would even comment. I see that you are a mod. So you must be a reasonable person. Who do you have a problem with? Better yet, what caused you to feel this way. I think that nobody is perfect. Age is not important, I agree. So maybe you should try to PM that person. We are all humans. We all make mistakes. Don't let that stop you from respecting someone, even if you disagree.I think respect should be distributed equally, to each person. Unless you have some guy that want's to just start trouble....

Ok, enough bad grammar. That alone could get me banned.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

Sometimes it takes a lesser experienced person than an assembly programmer to ask a question to bring information to light that would have normally been not posted, or not posted on in full accent.

I've learned a TON since I started reading the DIY-PROM board. I've also tried to contribute by answering newbie's questions for people so that the "Elite" can pay more attention to the more complex posts, etc..

But I just wanted to take this post's opportunity to say thanks to fore-founders and pioneers here on this site for all the help you guys have given me and others!

Thanks and it is appreciated !

Mike (1bad91Z)

MYBLUZ

Wow, I havent paid much attention to this portion of the board, didnt know it was this interesting, who needs sitcoms? Anyway I plan on learning not leeching, and before I do either I would like to say you guys are more important to most all of us than sex. Well maybe that important, but definatly smarter than me.:hail:

Guest

Its not your problem and you arent part of it. Stay out of it.

11sORbust

Fair enough...

black87c4

Glad the tears are falling and everyone is holding hands As for myself, after a few emails back and forth i'm not sure anything was accomplished. I believe it is still "i'm still trying to divide the tuning community and if i didn't want the responce that i got i shouldn't have posted in the first place". Not a direct quote, just a general summary. And thanks trax for me still having a valid id here altho i'm not sure how often it will be used.

Grumpy

It's nice seeing an *ex* member, not return fire.
You gotz an atta-boy, from me, for that.

Grumpy

I don't know how others feel about such language from a Moderator, but, I'd sure hope they let the Admin and This Board Moderator know of their displeasure of seeing a Moderator post in such a rude fashion.

Having one Moderator troll in another board to me, is something worth gripping about.

JohnL

Arrrg Bruce! You just give kvu an "atta-boy" for not returning fire at a moderator, then you go away for half an hour and come back and fire at a moderator!

Are you having a driver problem again, or is it your ECM bench's misbehavior that's put you in a Grumpy mood ?

And "griping" only has one "P". Or were you wanting to give madmax a good "grip"? I know you can't be real mad, because when you get really angry, your spelling improves.

John *running for cover*

Grumpy

I didn't return fire, all I did was ask that if it bothered others as much as me to take action in an appropriate manner. Returning fire would be replying to him in the same manner he acted in.

The time out was while I was awaiting to see what the powers to be, response was to my comments to them, off list.

Nothing that happens around is enough to make me angry.

The Ecm benchs are all fine, and I'm even awaiting another one. So life is good in that reguard.

Geesh, spelling corrections, what ever.


Your far enough away that there's no need to run, or worry that I'll be over.


And now, after several more off list emails, I'd say he now owes all involved an apology.

Guest

Troll in? How is it you come to that conclusion? You know, there are numerous boards here, and funny thing... they are all attached to one another. I see you havent changed one bit in the past 3 years since you started this crap with me.

Grow up.

Guest

Thats a laugh. Lets see... who was it who was complaining about someone using **YOUR** work and **YOUR** effort? Thats action in an appropriate manner? LOL!

Oh yea, apologies... you first, you started this a long time ago and still havent apologized. In fact, all you have continued to do is pick. I sat here biting my tongue for quite some time, but obviously the simple solution isnt coming. I personally got tired of saying nothing, wasnt doing anything constructive.

Grumpy

Your reply to 11s was trolling, there was no need to be rude in your reply to him.
OK, so?
3 years, you might try to get over it, and move on.
If I haven't changed in 3 years, it's only cause you've only been around longer, that long. I been this way for a long time.



Have you ever considered taking some of the advise you suggest to others?.

Grumpy

I was complaining about the work of DIY-EFI being used without credit if you were to take the time to grasp what I wrote. And moreso it was about the lack of credit that ALL the folks that contributed, that was the problem. All I'd asked for credit for were just a few memcals that I had bought, which seemed a like a min amount of credit for the work I did.

Dunno, what's bothering you, and by the way I don't care, but your rudeness to 11s is just not excusable in my book. YOU made a posting on a public board, and then got upset when he replied instead of your intented *target*. That's trolling, and looking for a fight. And for a Moderator, that's not setting any sort of example for folks.

You got tired of doing nothing?, maybe you need some vitamins.

Guest

Hey I'm not like you, I dont go around looking for members on a blacklist so that I can badger them. I PM'ed him rather than posting up a bunch of garbage. So... there you are, wrong again. Not that it matters to me, but it sure does seem to matter to you.

As for getting over it, who was the one here who didnt say a word all that time? And who was the one who did? You've come uninvited with worthless replies to my posts more than once, something I never did until today... and I only did that because I was tired of sitting around while you pick on whoever you choose to. You really want me to post up the proof? I dont think so. Its not pretty. It doesnt belong here, either.

How about you take some advice? You cant go around asking people for apologies when you refuse to give ones for your actions. Maybe when you decide to change your mind about that, things might happen the way you want. In the meantime, keep living in a delusional world.

Grumpy

If you'd gotten over it, you'd have no reason to bring what ever this alledged offense is.

Odd, that all these folks that I pick on exist in your mind. And, you use the term delusional. Ugh, OK.
IF, they felt so put upon then it would be up to THEM to talk to me about it. Your interference wouldn't be needed or necessary.

And as far as things that might not look pretty, well, that's again just more proof that you haven't gotten over it.

Isn't a moderator supposed to settle disputes, rather then starting them?. I mean going back 3 years looking for something to argue over just doesn't seem like appropriate behavior for a Moderator.

Guest

I guess thats why you lost your moderator status a long time ago. I'm just trying to catch up. Or did you forget about that too? Maybe soon I can be just as good and get banned too, be put on probation... Then I could pride myself that I'm just as good as you.

I see no reason to provide any sort of 'proof' that you may desire, but to refresh your failing memory... your last response to me, on a board that was tech only I might add, you called me a know it all who didnt know how to use tools.. hell, I didnt even know what the tools were. I'd just have someone else use the tools, and blame everything on them. That was after 2 years of not a single response to me from you... and thats your reply. Remind me, who again was it that cant drop it?

Hell you only proved that in picking on 87blackc4, you still remembered about him trashing this board on another board, and decided to pick on him about it. Grudge ridden are ya?

This is going nowhere. All you have proved is you cant remember a single thing, unless of course its something you can use against someone else. Are you a politician, by chance?