Folks,

What would be your preference on new DIY device designs, such as the AutoProm? I'm going to jump into the USB pool, and figured I'd try and gauge interest with respect to USB vs serial and how much need there is to support legacy stuff. Whatever I do with USB, it should still be compatible with existing software such as TunerCat RT, TunerPro RT, WinALDL, and those sorts of things.

 

go USB..

other then teh obvious data speed increases, most laptops that you can buy used, cheap (and im talking under $200) will have USB now days... athough it gets harder and harder to find one with a serial output since most cheaper models for the past few years, havent had any...... (hence the talk about USB->serial adapters all the time)

i think its about time to switch.

 

There are way too many budget limited folks to turn your back on in my opinion.
And they've already bought theit laptops, asking them to trash what they have to be able to run some new $300 devise aint gonna help sales. 300 is a big enough bite for people but making it $5-600, well that makes it really expensive.

I'd say do both.
It really doesn't even look like an option, the new laptops don't have Serial and the old ones don't have USB.
Or at least make the serial functionable with an USB adapter. The TC emulation software will run on a USB adapter, er, mine will.
Can you get the ALDL to run on an USB adapter?.

 

i say do both for the good of all of us that like using our old laptops that work great for tuning. all your work is great, please keep it up!

 

Either or would work for me. USB would probably be more widely supported these days, but DB9 works. Mine works fine and I love it!

 

Doesn't matter. My laptop can support both.

Kat

 

Man, the more I look at this USB thing the more sense it makes. I started doing a PCB layout which has USB instead of serial, and good LORD it simplifies things!

- No external power requirements. USB supplies a couple hundred mA! More room for other connectors ;^).
- No more 12v line level stuff, that means no more MAX232 and no more capacitor arrays to go with them. Don't need them for the serial-to-micro, and don't need em for the ALDL either! This is huge.
- No bulky DB9, just size down to USB socket. More room yet for even more 'other' connectors.

I'm thinking even some of the older laptops could be retrofitted with a PCMCIA card to provide a USB port. Don't know how well those things work, but I think it'd be possible. Something to try.

You're right though, Bruce, lotsa people with budget laptops out there, and those are the kind of people I want to support. The easier it can be made for people to get in the game, the better.

Now what should I do with all this extra real estate...

 

Hey! You can't do that when I already bought my serial version

 

I think I'd have to agree there. I really like the one I have now. I'll be using it tomorrow for the first datalog runs and tuning stuff.
No matter what...the serial version is great. It works for me. Now, if I can just get another laptop with more memory and a decent serial port, I'll be in business. Windows 98 SE never looked so good to me before now.

 

I say USB. If you can spend the money on a RT tuner, you can spend some money on a laptop with USB. I honestly don't see how guys with Pentium era laptop can stand it, Tunerpro, 8d hac, diy-prom board, and excel all opened on my P2 300MHz is slow.

 

I would have to vote both................... have a stack of laptops and only the newest altest and greatest supports both.. its kind of a temp/permanent loaner so anythign happens im forced to use serial anyhow (which is what i use now anyway)
Jeremy

 

Hey, either is fine with me. I finally got a PCMCIA to serial in today and it workd with TC and Datamaster on a LT1 for me with the homemade two-transistor interface. I am just happy to have both (USB & serial) now.

 

Hey Craig I know this is a little of subject But is it possiable to convert parallel (DB25) to USB


I vote both

 

I searched for a while, but was able to find one with both serial and USB.

 

Both would be the way to go. I and others I know use a really inexpensive laptop ($50 or less) because if it gets stolen or broken while in the car, its no huge loss. But with a $300+ laptop, it would really hurt to loose it.

 

How about a PCMCIA USB card for the older laptops? Wonder if that'd do the trick?

 

Adds another failure point.

How about two, one econo model (the serial), and then tack on $100 (or more) for the USB version. So far the pro USB guys seem to just have oddles of money to toss around. I say let 'em, finance the effort to do both....

 

By what Craig said said about design, it seems like serial would be MORE than usb.

 

Here's how I would approach this:

Serial:
1) Older Laptops
2) Embedded computers
3) Alternate Operating Systems
4) Ease of use for alternative software

USB
1) Newer Laptops
2) PC Architecture running windows
3) Support multiple devices at same time
4) Design / Manufacturing benefits you mention
5) Ease of use with your software

It seems that the majority of your future customers (given today's market) will fall in the Windows / Newer Laptop / Using your software category.

But

If you are looking to provide maximum flexibility and support a DIY community of products around your product, then offering serial as well provides some nice options.

For example, if someone wants to build a small embedded computer that can drive the autoprom and do logging instead of using a laptop, a serial interface would be far easier to use IMHO.

I personally see these products evolving beyond their "laptop on while driving" roots, and moving towards more specific embedded computers. At some point, a laptop may not even be needed. Someone could do major work on their home computer and then do tweaks or minor changes on a handheld. This will take time, but the momentum is gaining, and I think it is likely.

Obviously the option of either is nice - only you can determine if thats feasible. I know I don't mind paying a little more to get the specific interface I need if I'm doing something creative with it.

 

This may be stupid...what would it take to get BOTH interfaces on the same device? That way, users would have the option of using one or the other at their convenience.

 

If you were to read back thur the last several years of postings here, you note, there are alot more guys on a tight budget, then suffering from unlimited budgets.

In the responses, some of the comments are about well if so+so can afford this then they can afford that. It's just not the case.

While the newer laptops shun Serial, it's the richer folks that can afford them. Let them bear the burden since they can afford to.

And if you also look around, lots of people are more then willing to pay for eye candy, and think they need to pay megabucks to be state of the art, so again just let them.

 

I'll second this...my quals...poor grad student...wife...2 natural kids...2 step kids...I was happy to get the one I got for what I paid for it.
Donations accepted...

 

OK then.

I'll continue to support the serial port crowd for sure.

As a secondary effort, I'll develop the USB stuff and see if it pans out. To put support for both on the same device is just too much I think though.

More than anything, there's just so darn many cables & connectors already, and adding more is just wild.

The USB is an evolution of sorts. Like you guys have expressed though, gotta keep from leaving people behind.

Heck, my two laptops don't have USB. One's a 486-50, the other a P166. Have a hard time getting Win98SE to fit on em to see if a PCMCIA USB adapter I have will even work! Not in a big hurry to run out and drop $$ on a 'nice' laptop either. So I definitely understand the position.

 

FWIW, Craig, your AutoPROM is a kickass piece of equipment. I have just barely learned how to use it and I already think it is the $hi+.
Now if I could just get a decent Win98SE laptop with a clean serial port...

 

Actually it "should" be easier than you think to implement both interfaces. I own a couple of devices that can go either serial or USB (a mouse and a joystick), from what I can see of the cables it is just some wiring changes. The joystick has a pigtail that splices off of the USB conector and the mouse uses a plug in adaptor to adapt its USB plug to serial.

 

I think something to take into consideration is the number of devices you're running off of your machine. For some people, the serial port might be occupied already, which leads me to the beauty of USB; there's already 2-4 ports on the computer, they can easily be teed off into more and they're "universal"

Tony



...I have USB, Serial and parallel...I'm special :lala:

 

I had a laptop take a plunge off the workbench once. (Not sure why it did that, must have been a software bug).

Yes, I know you're not supposed to let that happen...but in any case, it failed the, um...drop test.

A big deal? Nope. It was an old P100 that I got for $35. If it had been a $600+ machine, I'd have been downright upset. So personally, I'd rather be able to use the really cheap stuff for tuning.

Maybe in another year or two, if USB-equipped stuff starts being tossed into dumpsters, I'll change my mind, but for now, let's not rush to drop serial port support.