jo88gta

What could cause the injectors from getting pulse while cranking? (Sometimes while cranking, I watch the scanner and it shows 0.0 pulse width). In this condition it will not start (obviously).

I have changed the various cranking pulse widths (Ref., temp, tps) and have not corrected the problem at all. What else could cause absolutely no pulse to the injectors while cranking? I swapped out the relay and checked the fuse.

Some bins work better then others, but they all have the problem to some level (original prom works with no problem).

Once the engine is warm and I try to restart the problem is there. I don't necessarily have to let it cool down for the problem to correct itself. I will switch from one bin to the next (16 stored on prom) and eventually I'll hear a slight noise (kind of like a click (relay?) (further testing will reveal where this comes from)), that's when I know the engine is going to start.

Fuel pressure shows solid as soon as the ignition is turned on (I can also here it pumping up as normal). Holds 48lbs under load and with vacuum off.

FYI - Mostly using ARAP bin - cold start injector removed. Have tried other APYP, ANYJ and others - all have the problem.

All of these bins worked a week ago without any changes to them since.

Given enough attempts all the bins will come back to life and start the engine.

Sorry I'm all over the place with this, I haven't found a specific pattern. I am reviewing the differences in bins that work better then others - just taking some time.

jo88gta

OK, the noise that I hear right before the car WILL start is the Air Purge Relay. How would that stop me from starting the car?

MikeT 88IROC350

What cal are you using? You mentioned ARAP....so I assume the $6E tdf? I have been also working on long engine crank times, but not making much progress.

TC just added a new table to the $6E and $32B tdfs called "Startup Fuel/Air Ratio %change vs Coolant temp." Seems like a good table, been lowering the numbers. My car starts great cold, but cranks longer warm and hot.

ALSO...I see the 0.0 msec crank fuel pulse width on my scan tool. BUT it is just when I scan the ECM with a $6E bin on the PROM. When I use a $32B bin, I see the crank fuel pulse width exactly as it is supposed to be from the tables.
So this may be a common thing with the $6E bins. I don't think you have "things" stopping you from starting the car. Just the conditions the engine is in while cranking.

Keep us posting on what you find.

Morley

With ARAP using the $6E mask, you need to look at the; Crank Fuel PW Multiplier vs. Ref. Pulse. The first 10 positions are 0, which means for the first 10 revolutions of the engne your injector PW is 0, nil, nada, zip. Check to make sure you are looking at "calculated values" and change those first positions ot .3-.5 and try it. Once you get it to where it will start on the first crank you can play with the values to get it just right (not too rich, not too lean)

Grumpy

So your engine only has one ref pulse per engine revolution?
That might be the problem right there.....

Attention, attention, this is a humor alert.....

jo88gta

MikeT - Yes I'm using the 6E. I will try and research it more this deeper today. I'll burn a couple 32B's today and see what happens. I know a lot of people using the ARAP and having good luck and these worked fine a couple weeks ago.

Morely - "I have changed the various cranking pulse widths (Ref., temp, tps) and have not corrected the problem at all." This was the first thing I did when seeing no pulse on the scanner.

As I had mentioned earlier, the only piece of information I have (and don't know what to do with) is when the engine is going to start - I hear the CCP sensor click. Once that happens the car starts right up.

jo88gta

Morely - I think you were right on it. I didn't realized that there were more data cells below the screen, and I needed to scroll down to see them. I found the 0 cells and am gettining ready to burn another chip.

I feeling pretty stupid right now, I've got some serious time invested on this one. I even new to up the PW and never scrolled down to finish the job.

Will update shortly.

jo88gta

I'm making the changes and banging my head on the wall for being stupid. But in all my life, I have never worked with a table or spreadsheet that had then ending cells at the top and not the bottom.

Morley

Well EXCUUUUSSSSE ME!!!!!! you get no fuel for the first 10 PULSES. Better now?

Morley

You may find that after adding fuel for those first ten positions that you may need to pull out the fuel you added for TPS % and temp.

jo88gta

Thought for sure that was going to work - IT DIDN'T!

I have one ARAP bin that works 90% of the time, the other 10% it has the same starting problem. I'm going to use that as my base BIN from this point on. It was an early effort that I tossed aside. When I click from one bin to another with the ignition on nothing changes until I click on this one. Then I hear the CCP (air purge) sensor click. The car starts!

I am going to change the Crank Fuel PW Multiplier vs. Ref. Pulse in this BIN and see how that works.

Morley

Don't use the switcher function, burn the entire chip with the same exact bin file. I've had starting problems with the switcher too and this was the only way I could get it to work.

jo88gta

Morely, thanks!

I supposedly have the latest and greatest switcher. Craig Moates had fixed some problems that were occuring with the remote. Instead what I did to try you idea was to burn a 256k chip and double load the bin - same thing occurred with the individual/Non switching prom. I even discussed it with Craig and he had no idea what could be going on.

Still working on it, I'll let you know when I make some progress.

Morley

Your mods are close to what I am running with the exception of the TFS heads I have (I assume you are using the stock heads?)
I can post my fueling settings for start up and you can try them. I spent a few days playing around with all the settings to get it right, major pain.

jo88gta

Yes, stock heads.

Please post your settings, that could be a huge help.

Spent a lot of time today and seem to be making it better - just not there yet.

Thanks!

Morley

table 1

Morley

table 2. I did no changes to PW vs %TPS