LBSZ28BLOWN

Yesterday 04-30-03 my local NAPA parts store located the
WB O2 sensor for me, the cost was $188.00.
Today 05-01-03 I stopped by to pick it up, when he was closeing out the ticket the price came up as $550.00, (Holy @%$#)
Luckely this was the same guy I was working with the day before
so he sold it to me at the $188.00 price.

The price of these things have jumped up to $550.00 - $650.00.

That makes these DIY WB O2 kits Very expensive.
Man I was Lucky.

Grumpy

Kits are still the samee price.

Just shows the games the oem plays with pricing.
While they were a warranty item they were resonably priced, now that Honda isn't buying them under warrantly sky's the limit on pricing.

It would be interesting to hear of the deals cut on some of these price revisions.

Odd circumstances to this.
Major aftermarket co announces a WB, and then within weeks the inventory disappears, and then after a month there is a huge price hike. Ya, just coincidence.

LBSZ28BLOWN

Hey Grumpy,
Are you running Water/Alky injection on your Buick.
If so how dose that efect the WB O2 readings, I read somewhere
that with W/A injection your AFR needs to be 11.5 to 1 not the normal 12.5 to 1 for the best AFR at WOT.

Grumpy

My engine is happiest at 11.8.

I have several expeiments planed on the WI stuff. Currently I've taken the stock intercooler off, and I'm running an extra injector to drop the MAT and help keep the manifold itself cooler. So far I've been able to duplicate the charge cooling the intercooler supplied with the extra injector.

There's three elements to the WI, that I want to try and isolate and see which generates the most HP.

justme

A friend of mine said he found a place where he could get a wideband for $149. I thought it had to be BS but he says it is a bosch WB unit. Is there more than one WB sensor that can be used with the DIY-WB setup or does Bosch only make one WB sensor?

LBSZ28BLOWN

The Bosch WB unit P/N 13246 is the one I picked up for $188.00.
The price has just gone up to $550.00 on this unit.

BTW inside the Bosch box is a NTK L1H1 sensor it is just pakaged by Bosch.
I think you'll find that all of the WB sensors for this application anyway has gone up in price drastically.

OMINOUS_87

Well it looks like I will be tuning my WOT on a chasis dyno as the DIY-WB just tripled in price.

Pic Description Availability * Price Add

Bosch 13246
Oxygen Sensor
1 Year Limited Warranty Ships in 5 days
$588.99

Thats at CheckerAuto

Grumpy

Can you please weigh in on the pros and cons of chasis dyno tuning WOT. I will be tuning a MAF car with the PE Vs. RPM table. I also have a spark advance table put together with 36 total all in by 3200rpm and will be running a 3200rpm Vig. I can get 2 hours of dyno time for 150$, does 2 hours sound like it might be enough?

Grumpy

Dyno time will ge going up to, if those prices are correct. I sure hope it's just a yen to USD conversion error.

Chassis Dynos can be pretty darned good.
But, it takes a huge capital investment to build a good one. I used to think it was darned near impossible to generate a real world condition on a dyno. Well, I got to go thru an oem emission lab., and they can do it, but it's a far cry from what most dyno shops offer.

Is dyno time worth while?.
Well, to some degree, yes.
If your starting from scratch and want to get some quick loaded runs in, then you can get in the ball park, fairly well with just a dyno. Trouble is the dyno just flashes the load on the engine, so temps never really have time to stablilze. So you typically wind up with too much timing and too lean.

Then we get to the operator, some are good dyno operators, and poor tuners, and some are visa versa.
And equipment. How accurate is their WB?. How old is it?, has it been exposed to silicone?.

Is that the most cost effective way to spend $150?.

funstick

most shops have a dynojet. they make a loadable walking dyno not quiet an eddy current but its goo to tune for WOT. the trick is keeping the engine load high. thats where the walking dyno come in. you can hold the load. then once your were you want to be you can disable the load and make a pull to check for the variance.

also whats with the price of WB-o2's. well a lot of companys are making wb-02 kits now. id imagine the demand went through the roof for those buying in small quantities.

OMINOUS_87

Thanks for the replys but the answers are kinda of a mixed bag. Until the price of the sensor drops a chasis dyno is my only option. There is not a snowballs chance in hell that I will run WOT without a proper tune as I have spent way to much money on my motor. From what you guys say this is not a bad idea but not the best way either, but its all I got.

So what brand of dyno do I need to look for and what model? What other facts do I need to be aware of?

Grumpy

If your on a real budget then the next thing to do is get creative.
How about building your own in car dyno?.

With being creative, you can take a stop watch and have the VSS start the watch, and after X number of pulses stop the watch. Make a change and see what the times do. Do plugs cuts, and away you go.

Don't want to get into reading up and being that creative then investigate G-Tech.

You don't have to have a WB, or use a dyno to get the most out of your combo. They can make the process easier and faster, but that's just having the right tool for the right job.

The BEST tuning aid is just being able to read the plugs. They are the true indicators of what's going on inside the combustion chamber.

ZZ28ZZ

Just bought a new WB O2 sensor off Ebay for $180 plus $10 for shipping. The guy says he has 45 of them to sell. Maybe 44 now..


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33557

I checked around locally. They are up. Waay up.. The Napa guy just about fell off his stool when he saw the price.

OMINOUS_87

Grumpy

Well I did some more digging about chassis dynos and have come to the conclusion that I will be finding a shop that has a Mustang Dyno model 250 or better with WB O2. The reason for choosing Mustang Dyno is the fact that it can impose high WOT load conditions for extended periods of time to the vehicle. The MD-7000 software has the capability to impose numerous real world load conditions on a vehicle including 1/4 mile passes and max output cycling in which the dyno adjusts the load on the vehicle to continually cycle between max torque and max hp. Although these imposed conditions wont actually be street time with a WB O2 it has to be the next best thing. Agreed about plugs, gotta be able to interpret what they are showing.

yellow73bb

I ordered one from the same guy on ebay. I sent him an email and he sold me one for $180 plus $5 shipping. Hopefully it is real and I will get it soon.

ZZ28ZZ, thanks for the tip!

John.

ZZ28ZZ

yellow73bb >> No problem. Glad to help out a fellow thirdgen'er. I checked the "completed items" on ebay and saw he has sold a few recently. Looks like they are going fast. I got charged $10 for shipping.. Oh well. Still a lot better than ~$500!!

I also found 2 more sensors available at hparts.com for $249. Probably won't last long.

clippjr8

got mine at autozone today for 180. no price hike there. got it under the napa part number off the diy site. hope that helps

icecold

anyone get one from the guy selling them yet?or at least a tracking# thinking of ordering thru him but would like to know he is legit.
thanks
pete

napasales@go.co

Hey guys...forgive me for barging into your site but I'm the ebay guy that has the L1H1 Wide Band O2 Sensors for sale on ebay. I know this is a hot item and I think I've got a pretty good price on them...here's the story. I work for a local NAPA Store as the Outside Salesman/Sales Manager. We ordered 25 of these for a guy who was making an Air/Fuel moniter in our area. We couldn't get them for him at the time we ordered them and he went another direction with the monitor. Well, we were stuck with 25 at that point. We then got the other 20 in due to the fact that the store manager had ordered them and they were on back-order at the time but when they came off they sent them to us. Well, we were stuck with 45 at that point. I've sold about 15 of these since Friday either on ebay or via e-mail. I've got some tracking #'s for you guys to show how legit I am:

1zxx13060335614336
1zxx13060335616361
1zxx13060302285067
1zxx13060335620427
1zxx13060302278977

Check any of these out...I sent all of these Monday. I know exactly what you guys are talking about price wise...the first 25 we got we bought for less than $100...the second 20 cost us over $200. If you go to your local NAPA their only gonna be able to supply you with these at way over $200 due to the current costs. What we've done is take the average cost of these and that's how we can sell that at what we're selling them at. If you need any other info please let me know at napasales@go.com. Also, some of you guys on here that have already ordered these from me...the above may be your tracking #. I've sent most UPS but I've sent some US Mail. E-mail me guys...I need to move these things! Thanks!!!

OMINOUS_87

Cool

I will buy one.

napasales@go.co

Great, e-mail me! Anyone else want one? E-mail me at NAPASales@go.com. I'll respond as quick as possible! Thanks guys!

vexter

iTrader: (3)

This guy has been selling wide band sensors. Although he's in Europe, he has a 100% feedback rating and the price is right...

JoBy

The Bosch LSU4 5 wire WB sensor does NOT work with the DIY-WB. It is a similar but different sensor used on some newer Volvos.

You have to use the L1H1 NTK sensor that were used on the older Hondas.

vexter

iTrader: (3)

I'm sorry I posted about the LSU4 prematurely. However, I'm reading that this issue has to do with the sensor heating. It seems some minor changes to the diy circuit can have this newer sensor working. I'm still trying to chase this down. I bought one of the LSU4's thinking it would be good to go. I'm still glad I did. The price is MUCH better than the ones for the Hondas.

This sensor WILL work!!! It's just going to take some extra attention up front...

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

I just checked my local AutoZone for PN# 13246
She can have em Next Day at $169.99

poncho@home

Has anyone got a DIY board to use the Bosch LSU4 sensor? I really want to jump on the Wideband tuning but the Napa sensor gets really expensive in CDN funds.

Also who has successfully plugged in their WB sensor to their existing ECU? and if you have, is there a way to tell the ECU to use this sensor during WOT to acheive a preset AFR?

I've been burning my own chips for a few months, but only for idle and part throttle tunes. I will be installing my new heads, intake and headers this week so I would love to start really dialing in the car for WOT.

Thanks...

ZZ28ZZ

You can't connect the WB sensor directly to the ECM. A heater control circuit and a current pump are needed to make the WB sensor work.

I understand it is possible to connect the DIY-WB controller (after the appropiate modifications) to the ECM so you don't need the factory O2 sensor, but I haven't dug into that can of worms myself.