funstick

ok guys ive been looking into $8f for a while now. its capable of running DIS right out of the box. has better table resolution more boost reolution. it looks alot like the $a1 code but for boost instead. quick Q's. is anybody here working with $8f ?? if so please speak up id like to here about any pointers you maybe have pitfalls loop holes etc etc etc. also the appears to be space form $9000 - $9FFF is just open space. doe anyone think this is enough room for a few 17x17 data tables ? also if it is ( id like to add and extra spark and fuel table. for boost over 190kpa) what do i have to do in terms of code changes to make the jump form x at the first table to the second table ? rbob your comments are appreciated here. also if anyone wants onboard this sillyness with this code let me know. i can hand out all the info i have uptill now. but thats as far i can go. this is good for the 4cylinder and 6 cylinder guys. but what about you 8cylinder guys ? is there a dis module out there for you ?? i think so on the holdens.

TRAXION

You're reading my mind

I've been giving a lot of thought lately as to what it would take to run the 730 (or OEM 727) with $8F instead of running the 749 with $58. The $8F is so much nicer. It has the cool idle spark routines, a true injector constant ... all the good P4 stuff. The C3 stuff is just dated. Plus, the $8F has DIS. Very nice.

I did a quick comparison for the pinouts of the 727 (Turbo Grand Prix) as compared to the 730 (F-Body) and the real biggie here is the Crank Sensor. Definitely need to find a way to reproduce that signal. Maybe use a trigger wheel like MSD uses for the crank triggered ignition systems? The next biggie is finding a way to interface with a coil pack that has output for V8 applications (8 spark towers). Not sure on that one.

The first thing would be to just get the $8F running on a boosted V8 application. Then worry about expanding the tables. No point in expanding the tables unless you are sure you can actually get it running on a V8.

Tim

funstick

all the gm dis modules have the crank trigger run to the DIS module. the dis module spits out a ref pulse for the ecm. this is of not concern for you. the best thing to do would be to get a dis module form a holden form austrialia to use. from what i understand the v8's there use a similar crank or at least ive heard there somewhat related to a SBC. making a trigger however form a holden pattern would be simple enough and then you could just copy the pattern onto a SBC harmonic balancer. this solves the issue. also i could show you how to set the code to runa module but it would take some time in terms of experimenting to get it right. the bigger Q is weather or not it will behave correctly. theres a difference int eh way dwell is calculated in teh DIS and module code. however simply copying the max advance ,max retard settings form $8d should to the trick. ive also got a scehmatic im working on for using very and i mean very large injectors. think big very big. im just not sure if the code can calculate a PW that small but we will find out.

anyways lets get the feedback going. id like to hear what everybody has to say.

SATURN5

The bugger is as far as I know is there isnt much available editor wise. Does someone have a .ecu file for winbin? Last I checked TC didn't have a def file for $8F. Might inquire there.

funstick

hmm there stuff in the works, theres a sort of half *** hack at diy-efi in incoming. ive been working on this code for a few weeks.

TRAXION

'Mechanic' posted his GMPCM software. It has a rediculous number of items in it. So - I would say as far as editors go that this one has it covered ... rather completely too. There were so many constants that I got sick of looking at them.

I don't see how this solves the issue and I don't see how this is simple enough. I ASSume that this would require some type of magnetic reference thing-a-ma-bob similar to what MSD uses. Copy the pattern onto a SBC harmonic balancer?? First of all - what pattern? Yes, there's a symmetrical pattern on crank triggered ignition wheels but this 'pattern' is the placement of the magnetic or steel slugs. We'd need a trigger device (i.e. a magnet, or piece of metal or something) and then a sensor to read when that material enters a certain point. You can't modify a harmonic balancer according to that method ... or, at least I have never seen that method before.

Are you replacing the injector drivers according to what the SyTy guys are doing? I know that there are guys running injectors of 72lb/hr. Not sure how that fits into your 'very big'.

Tim

funstick

well im thinking like 90lb per hr. i have a high boost 4cylinder app that im building. i did not see mechanics rom editor ? where mr Moates been at or does anyone no enough about VB to make this of any use ?

8F43
ALDL STREAM
8F43 8000 PROM ID A
8001 PROM ID B
0002 MALF WORD 1
0003 MALF WORD 2
0004 MALF WORD 3
0005 MALF WORD 4
8F4F 00EE CTS
00A1 STARTUP CTS
006A TPS
006B %TPS
005F RPM
304D CRANK RPM MSB
004E CRANK RPM LSB
30F8 REF PULSES MSB
8F5F 00F9 REF PULSES LSB
0062 DELTA REF PULSES
3066 FILTER MPH (NOT USED)
0067 FILTERED MPH
0060 O2VOLTS
0103 O2CNTS
008B BPW FINE
00CD BLM
8F6F 00C9 BLM CELL
(24)0084 INT
0014 IAC PRESENT POSITION
00B7 WASTE GATE DUTY CYCLE
00C8 DESIRED IDLE RPM
001A BARO
00E1 MAP_VOLTS FILTERED 2 BAR MAP LOAD VARIABLE
004C IAT/MAT
8F7F 00EB FP VOLTS
00AB EGR DUTY CYCLE
01A2 EGR POSITION
0069 VBAT
3081 INJ PWM MSB
0082 INJ PWM LSB
00AD MASS AIR FLOW GMS/S
(38) 30B8 SPARK ADVANCE REL TDC MSB
8F8F 00B9 SPARK ADVANCE REL TDC LSB
00B5 SPARK ADVANCE REL REF PULSE
0085 COMMANDED AFR
31B9 BASE PWM MSB
01BA BASE PWM LSB
014E CORRS VOLTS
00A5 CCP
(46) 00AE RETARD ;BYTE * 45/256
8F9F 00E4 N/V RATIO
3012 RUNTIME MSB
0013 RUNTIME LSB
0187 CAT TEMP
00AF KNOCK CNTS
00BF STATUS FLAGS 1A
SC1SD0 BIT STATUS WORD
0 1 = SERIAL DATA TRANSMIT ENABLE
1 1 = TORQUE VALVE ON
2 NOT USED
3 1 = TCC LOCKED / SHIFT LIGHT ON
4 1 MEANS VSS = VSS1, 0 MEANS VSS = VSS2/2
5 VSS CHIP SELA }
6 VSS CHIP SELB } ADDRESS BITS FOR VSS CHIP
7 VSS CHIP SELC }
00BE STATUS FLAGS 1B
SC1SD1 BIT STATUS WORD
0 0 = QDM FAULT B
1 0 = LOW A/C PRESSURE DETECTED
2 1 = IN SECOND GEAR
3 NOT USED
4 RESUME (NOT USED)
5 TRIMDOWN (NOT USED)
6 1 = DEFROST ON
7 FAN # 2 (power steering pressure switch)
0029 SERIAL DATA WORD 1
MW1 BIT STATUS WORD
0 ADVANCE FLAG (0 = ADV, 1 = RET)
1 1 = VEHICLE MOVING
2 INTERRUPT SERVICE EXECUTION EXCEEDED 6.25MSEC
3 1 = MALF 35 DETECTED
4 0 = ROAD SPEED 1ST TIME FLAG
5 A/C CLUTCH FLAG (1 = DISABLE)
6 1 = BYPASS CHECK ENABLED (EST MONITOR)
7 1 = ENGINE RUNNING
8FAF 002A SERIAL DATA WORD 2
MW2 BIT STATUS WORD
0 LAST LOOP VALUE OF TPS BYPASS FLAG
1 TPS BYPASS FLAG (TPSLOAD SUBROUTINE)
2 1 = REFERENCE PULSE OCCURRED (6.25 MS CHECK)
3 1 = DIAGNOSTIC SWITCH IN FACTORY TEST POSITION
4 1 = DIAGNOSTIC SWITCH IN DIAGNOSTIC POSITION
5 1 = DIAGNOSTIC SWITCH IN ALDL POSITION
6 1 = HIGH BATTERY VOLTAGE - DISABLE SOLENOID DISCRETES
7 1 = IDLE CONDITIONS MET (BLM LOGIC)
002B MODE WORD 3
MW3 BIT STATUS WORD
0 LOOP TIMING FLAG FOR TIMING ERROR LOGIC
1 1 = SYNCH MAP READ WITH 2X REF. PULSES ENABLED
2 1 = BLEND OF A/F AFTER AFTI TIMEOUT COMPLETED
3 1 = HIGHWAY SPARK ADVANCE (CONVERTER OVERTEMP MODE)
4 1 = EGR ON
5 1 = ROAD SPEED FILTER EXERCISE FLAG
6 1 = REF PULSE OCCURRED (USED FOR FILTRPM LOGIC)
7 1 = VATS OK 0 = VATS FAILED
0049 QDM WORD 1
QDMMW1 BIT STATUS WORD
0 1 = FORCE PRP4 OUTPUT HIGH
1 1 = FORCE PW5 OUTPUT HIGH (EAS)
2 1 = FORCE PW4 OUTPUT HIGH (A/C)
3 1 = FORCE SC1 O4 HIGH (TCC/ELITE)
4 1 = FORCE PW7 OUTPUT HIGH (FAN #1) 1 = FAN ON
5 1 = FORCE PW2 OUTPUT HIGH (CCP)
6 1 = FORCE PW3 OUTPUT HIGH (EGR)
7 USED FOR CHECK ENGINE LIGHT
0032 LCC/CCP WORD
LCCPMW BIT STATUS WORD
0 1 = SHIFT LIGHT ON
1 1 = MALFS HAVE OCCURRED
2 1 = LAUNCH MODE
3 MALF 42A REPEAT FLAG
4 TCC MPH HYST BIT (FOR FORCING TCC TO LOCK AT HI MPH)
5 1 = AIR SWITCHED TO PORT
6 1 = CLEAN CANNISTER (CCP LOGIC)
7 TRANSMISSION LOCKED FLAG (1 = LOCKUP ENABLED)
0024 FMD WORD 1
FMDBYTE1 BIT STATUS WORD
0 PARK/NEUTRAL (1 = DRIVE)
1 3RD GEAR
2 4TH GEAR
3 P/S CRAMP (0 = CRAMP)
4 READ BUT NOT USED
5 READ BUT NOT USED
6 V5 COOLING FAN DISCRETE (1=FAN REQUESTED)
7 AIR CONDITIONER (1 = A/C REQ)
0001 NVM WORD
NVMW BIT STATUS WORD
0 O2 SENSOR READY FLAG (1 = READY)
1 C/L TIMER TIMED OUT (1=TIMER O.K.)(ALSO ALLOWS EGR)
2 VSS SENSOR DETERMINED
3 IMPROPER SHUTDOWN FLAG (0 = PROPER, 1 = IMPROPER)
4 1 = ISMNMPKA LEARNED AFTER NVM FAIL (QUICK LEARN DONE)
5 1 = SPEED SENSOR OPTICAL 0 = SPEED SENSOR MAGNETIC
6 1 = IAC MOTOR RESET ENABLED
7 1 = MALF 42 FAILURE (EST MONITOR)
004A QDM WORD 2
QDMMW2 BIT STATUS WORD
0 1 = FORCE SC1 OUTPUT 2 HIGH
1 1 = FORCE OPORTI HIGH (ADD COOLANT LIGHT)
2 1 = FORCE DO1 HIGH (2ND FAN)
3 1 = FORCE PWM6 OUTPUT HIGH
4 CLEARED
5 CLEARED
6 CLEARED
7 CLEARED
0035 LOOP MODE WORD
CLCCMW BIT STATUS WORD
0 F4 TBL FLG (0=EGR ON), ALSO USED FOR CLPROP & A/C RTD.
1 1 = ADTAOFF HAS BEEN INCREMENTED (TPSLOAD SUBROUTINE)
2 ALDL MODE 4 MOTOR RESET COMPLETE (1=COMPLETE 1X ONLY)
3 DECEL FUEL CUTOFF FLAG, 1=DFCO ENABLED
4 'K4' FLAG FOR TPSLOAD SUBROUTINE
5 NOT USED
6 NON-VOLITILE MEMORY BOMBED
7 1 = CLOSED TPS FLAG
8FBF 003E AF WORD
MWAF1 BIT STATUS WORD
0 ARSEN DIVERT FLAG (1 = DIVERT)
1 LEARN CONTROL ENABLE FLAG (1=ENABLE STORE,0=DISABLE)
2 SLOW O2 RICH/LEAN FLAG
3 1 = 'DELIVER FUEL ON EVERY REF' ACTIVE
4 QUASI-SYNCHNONOUS PULSE FLAG (QAP FLAG)
5 NOT USED
6 1 = RICH, 0 = LEAN
7 1 = IN CLOSED LOOP, 0 = OPEN LOOP

i was going to delve into adapting criags software but me not being the VB *** lol if i had the time. i would add this myself.

hmm ill have to dig for the post by mechanic.

as for the trigger wheel. do you know a competent machinsit ?
if so have him make you and steel disk and and cut the notchs for the trigger. mind of course you have the correct pattern spacing etc etc etc. after thats all done figure out where 60dgress btdc is on the balncer and install your pickup there. ill dig around for some holdedn stuff see if you could get a few dis modules shipped the coils i think are standard gm fare however. as for a pikcup go ****** one out of any car with dis. its looking for breaks in the field. normally on, off when nothced.

TRAXION

Why not just use this?



Tim

funstick

you could use that but it wont cycle correctly the module is looking for signal breaks. when the wheel has no ntoch there is no signal break. when there is a notch the signla breaks. then registers a pulse. it could work either way to be honest but whenever possiable i try to replicate gm's strategy it leads to less no starts and headaches . also does that wheel have the correct pulse spacing and number ? gotta find a holden head like tomcat im sure he will have some answers to help out.

Mechanic

Thank you for the encouraging comments Tim, I always appreciate feedback, as it helps keep me on the right track..

The whole idea behind the concept I use, is to have the ENTIRE data area of the code mapped, simply an extremely complete and accurate hack included within the definition. Ive even included a nice function intended to be used for filtering the less critical constants and tables from being displayed: Each item has a checkbox labeled "Normal". If this box is set to off, the item will only be displayed in "Advanced" mode (available in the "Options" menu)... :-)

A very functional search feature is also available to help get you where you want to be. You can search by start address, Name, etc.. The "Like" option allows you to find any word within the items name, and you can use the standard "F3" for "find next" to scroll through the entire definition. A search on the word "Flow" for example, will pop you directly to the "Injector Flow Rate" constant.

Even novice GM code hackers like me may find that the software works extremely well at its originally intended purpose; a free binary hacking tool. The real time code display has many benefits. For example, the start address can be scrolled through the binary until an area meets a certain criteria, where upon it can be further scrutinized. The PCM file format also extends on the .ecu file format in that labels can be extended in length, and the "Notes" feature can include a complete book for each item of extended descriptions, tuning technique, and the changes made if desired.

funstick

youve cuaght my interest. im currently hacking the code myself but im getting help from some pros. anyways id apprciate it if you could say let me try the program out?? toss me an email let me know whats best for you ? this could save me tons of headaches.

Mechanic

You can download the software directly from here :

GMPCM

Ave a look and see if it will meet your needs....

SATURN5

Thats a real nice editor. In a prior post you referred that you also had a def file for the $8F. Mind if I had a copy? mucho thanks, Bob

TRAXION

Mechanic ...

I have some other feedback for you that I'll toss your way via e-mail.

Tim

Grumpy

You might try reading Max Boost by Corky Bell, the NACA papers and Hugh McInnese's book on turbos. If you already have, then a reread is in order.

funstick

to be honest i dont give 2 craps what corky bell has to say. i know how much HP im shootig for and i know how much fuel i need. thats how much fuel i need for the HP. sure i could turn up fuel pressure to push the delivery up but that will most definately take its strain on the injectors the pump and heat up the fuel cuasing alot of the aditives to evaporate. driving the octane levels down. ptb's i belive they are called. anyways i dont care. and to be honest why do you care ? youve never cared before. i dont need litearature to tell me what i already know from experience. boost goes up so does fp pressure. CFM goes up so does volume.

SATURN5

Hmm, so now your a turbo expert huh?

Let me know once you make your first million.

Of course with 90lb injectors...should support +700 HP in your honda.

:lala: :lala: :lala:

funstick

hmm who ever claims to be an expert or throws the first punch is often the person without any knowledge to start with. i dont need to read a book about turbos. there pretty simple. i dont need to read a book to understand combustion properties. i dont need to read books unless they have some peice of knowledge or mathmatical formualtion that helps me define more accurately what i dont know for sure.

im not cliaming to be an expert at anything. i just have my setup i know what im gonna run and i know why. whos to say ill actually run 90lb pr hr injectors. but if i ever stepped the honda upto that level it sure would be nice to be able to do it.

yet agian ive numersous time pointed out the problem to people. what make corky bell anymore of an expert then a Jet propulsion engineer for GE.?? if your gonna depend on other people to thoerize for you thats just sad and silly. i might not have bruces code savy. i might not have your insane ability to make a rud and obnixous post that contradicts everything ive ever observed about the internal cobumstion engine.

ive spent alot of time tunning carbs, palying with cams, building motors long before i got into efi. i have come up with inovative way to solve my problems. ive spent alot of time doing reasearch for folks that sometimes dont seem to care. cut the BS get off my back. if you dont wish to contribute anything useful dont.

SATURN5

Again you very clearly pointed out the difference between knowledge and guessing...

Grumpy

You claim not to be an expert in one reply, and then know it all in this one.

Information is power.
Shifting thru the stuff I mentioned will save you lot on the learning curve.

Believe it or not, I like seeing people suceed. And giving away the info., to let them do that. Look back over the years about what I've posted, if your not clear on that. In part it's folks with attitudes like what you display that drive the, givers away.

funstick

hmm the givers thats a interesting thought.

lets see this is a post about $8f and when to apply it. its about a better version of boost code. its about making a change going forward doing better things and expanding the hobby. i stated my goals objectives etc etc in the begging of the post. what do i see from you and satrun5 ( yes grumpy im speaking directly to you) personal attacks all the time. maybe if you shut up and spent more time listening to new ideas and people thoerys and then shared with people your ideas and thoerys and dropped the holier than thou attitude of sianthood ( glad to see your still the matry) then maybe we as a community could grow and the hobby would be the better for it. but yet again becuase you insist on personal attacks and floundering the resources that people are trying to collect its all a waste of time. ive siad this before if you have nothing useful to add dont. no one needs your constant conjecture and inconclusive evidence. im glad you feel better for reading a few books.

hell lets cal all the shots out here. in your recalibrating a maf the final answer did you actuall type anything about how the a/d converter hands off the maf volateg into counts in the code ?? NO. do i think you know as much as you say you do i wonder quiet a bit.

whats really insulting is that there are alot of new people here that are really trying very hard to come to grips with what to do. the funny thing is all you do is post more and more noise. thats about it.

6months ago you were running around yelling at people for touching the maf tables now your telling them to touch the maf tables. what gives ?

TRAXION

Ok guys, this is starting to get just a tad bit outta hand. Just wanted to throw up a warning post that this is going to get locked if there are a couple more posts like this.

Tim

Grumpy

I used to share alot, but the roar of the poorly informed got overwhelming. Much like this posting of your's.

When you post poor to totally inaccurate data, and I'm just correcting your errors, no need to get offended, if you hadn't posted the inaccuraties, then I wouldn't have corrected you.

In case you haven't notice, I've been at this alot longer then you, and I post about what I've seen and dealt with rather then what little Birdies tell me.

If you want to mistate, and falsely report info., well gosh, don't get testy, when your corrected.

funstick

think about this statement for a while. think about it long and hard.you assume

A you have a better working knowledge of the I.C.E. then i do. where do you have the factual evidence to prove this.

B can we please for once just stay on topic for gods sake. its about $8f but as in every other poost youve responded to its turned into a war of words. im going to be asking to have this post locked it was a wasted effort to go forward. and to think this could have turned into something useful for your black car.

Grumpy

1) Just for grins, let's limit this to proms, because,
A) I've elected not to play one of your silly games,
B) that this is a forum about DIY Proms.

2) There is no war of words, I'm usually just correcting your postings.

3) Again, you've assuming things. You have no idea as to what stage the code is that I'm running in the black car.
And, in part it's due to folks like you that I have quit sharing as much as I used to.
You have no idea what my short term, or long term goals are for the black car.

4) The only one that's caused this thread to go off on tangents is you, so don't try passing off the blame on anyone else other then yourself.

Please note, that again, you've posted off topic, and again we've gone off on a tangent.

funstick

You might try reading Max Boost by Corky Bell, the NACA papers and Hugh McInnese's book on turbos. If you already have, then a reread is in order.

You claim not to be an expert in one reply, and then know it all in this one.

Information is power.
Shifting thru the stuff I mentioned will save you lot on the learning curve.

Believe it or not, I like seeing people suceed. And giving away the info., to let them do that. Look back over the years about what I've posted, if your not clear on that. In part it's folks with attitudes like what you display that drive the, givers away.

I used to share alot, but the roar of the poorly informed got overwhelming. Much like this posting of your's.

When you post poor to totally inaccurate data, and I'm just correcting your errors, no need to get offended, if you hadn't posted the inaccuraties, then I wouldn't have corrected you.

In case you haven't notice, I've been at this alot longer then you, and I post about what I've seen and dealt with rather then what little Birdies tell me.

If you want to mistate, and falsely report info., well gosh, don't get testy, when your corrected.



1) Just for grins, let's limit this to proms, because,
A) I've elected not to play one of your silly games,
B) that this is a forum about DIY Proms.

all of the above posted by grumpy ----------------------------------------


these are your replys in order no comment they serve themselves where did you provide ideas or insight about $8f code ?

this was posted by satrun 5


Hmm, so now your a turbo expert huh?

Let me know once you make your first million.

Of course with 90lb injectors...should support +700 HP in your honda.


also where did you provide insight and usefullness into the $8f code ??



my thoughts

for one to make the bold statement that i was running off onto tangents is a huge leap in misdirected logic. i reponded in to harsh a manner to bruces mention of a book For that im am sorry) but thet last staement a reread is in order who do you think you are man ?. the fact remains however that im sick of being constantly hounded by someone who is obviously either intimadated by me or just plain mean.


and bruce if you sitting around waiting for me to make mistakes thats just pathetic. i am human. im sorry i cant have the fountain of information about gm ecms you do. most of my knowledge come form tunning. tunning with EFI carb whatever. so if i dont have a specific peice of knowledge i can relate i will most likely try to relate a useful peice of information in the best manner i can. if this is your problem then what gives.

also i never tell anybody to just say oh yeah raise the injector constat to say 50lb per hr. i dont give specific advice into how much to tweak things. however i will make an attempt to give the best answer i can and hopefully i can help someone else who either confused or lost. most of what you have to say is demeaning or rude. i find that truly remarkable considering you live in the midwest. a place thats normally full of polite, helpful people.

in summary before making such a bold sweeping accusation that i pulled the discusion line off topic check what you said. i didnt ask how to build my motor. i didnt ask what books to read. i was talking about DIS and better boost code.the fact that my honda came up was filler more what my personal golas are, its good to have goals. but not for you to comment on nor make joke humour or advice about.

this is my last reply to this post please either lock delete whatever.

and traxion i think i found some stuff about the assuie DIS that might help you out.pop me an email.

TRAXION

This is post is way off target at this point. Sorry guys - gotta lock it.

Tim