Christos

Looks like the logs are raw data, any way to covnert this to something useable?

Also, the spark map/o2/ and blm (?) tables never populate with any data when the program is running, even after 15 mins.

Anyone have tips on this program? I would like to diagnose my o2 and maf mostly here. My car runs rich, and I'm setting off a code 33/36, (maf, and burn off relay) replaced both the Maf burn off, and power relay, and it didn't fix things.

Also bought 2 MAFs, and both made the car stumble, and run much worse. I'm still running my original maf because it runs better then the two new ones (which i returned, of course!)

Thanks for any help, im totally new to this, I was hoping I could find something with this program as to what my problem is.

Christos

I should have mentioned it, but I am looking into prom tuning, but I want to make sure I can get the data ok before I waste money on the equipment.

Also, my car is a 1986 IROC 305 TPI, MAF. Odd enough, my data port on the aldl wasn't where it should be when I read abotu the cable. It's pin "E", second pin from the left.

Morley

Yeah, it seems most of the schematics assume you are running a S/D setup which uses pin M.
You know with your 86 you can run the much faster 8192 baud software? It is avialable here http://moates.net/gmecm/software.html I have it running well on the 2 transistor cable (schematic is on the same page) However I can only get the 851 version to work with this cable. So if you try the 852 version and it won't work, try the 851.

Christos

Thanks for the link there.

I did try the moates software first, but it just shows random variables. Even if the cable isn't plugged in. Granted, i'm running XP, but back on my 98 laptop, it didn't pull any data, when win ALDL did.

I think i might have the 165 series ECU, not sure why only winaldl works for me.

Thanks for the responce! I gave up on this thread a while back. ;)

Morley

I have a laptop running win 95 and one running win 98, both work just fine with Craig's software. Maybe you had a flakey connection somewhere in your cable?

funstick

you might have an 870 ecm not a 165. ive been thru this with some v6 cars produced both early and late in the 85 late early 86 model yr. pull the ecm out get the p# and tell us what you have.

Morley

165 ECM. You're in business.
I like Winaldl's digital dash setup but I like the amount of info avialable from Craig's software, not to mention the much faster baud rate.

tjrh522

Are you sure you changed the setting to be in diagnostic mode with Craig's software?

caleb

wich two transistor cable are you running the first picture or the second?

Morley

Ummm, the first one, the second schematic only has 1 transistor, but I do use that cable with Winaldl.

Christos

I had Steve make me the cable a while back actually, so i'm not too sure which one it is.

Craig moates software doesn't work. tjrh522, that was a great question, as it WAS in test mode. Still, even in running mode, with all the diffrent ECM's it supports, i get random variables for each table.

winaldl I got working ok. I had to reposition the wire to plug/read pin "E" instead of pin "M" to do this. (yeah, tried with moates too, didn't work)

I think this means somehow I have the 165 ECM, with the 160 baud "E" pin serial port. I have no idea why, Ive had a shop scan my ECM before, it it said, "1986 Camaro 305 TPI" Like it should, so my ECM should be right.

WinALDL says my PRIM ID is: <b>8291</b>

Anyone know if there is another program out there I could buy/download which would work for my ECM? I still want to try prom burning, but until I can get my laptop to work as a scanner, I can't see the point, as I won't be able to tell if I'm doing anything.

Thanks for all your help so far!

Morley

This is normal for the data pin to be "E" on the early TPI's. The pin position has nothing to do with the baud rate of the data, that is left to the software in the scanner to put the ECM into the 8192 Baud mode.

As far as Craig M's software not working, I have found that if a cable will work with Winaldl it won't work with Craig's software and vice-versa.

Christos

Ill have to hunt around for what tools i still have after my move, and check my ecm number.

Still, it said my prim id was 8291, not 8192. I'm kind of confused. Why doesn't my car ever have something be normal? Haha.

Ok, wasn't aware of the moates/winaldl cable oddity of not working with eachother. Now that I found my prom ID i can look for more scanning software hopefully.

Christos

Ok, tried CarBytes, and also Craig moates once again. Neither one worked.

Craif moates never made a connection. The other one didn't either.

Winaldl fired right up, and populated with data. I switched the BLM/INT/O2 selections over to, "wide average" (whatever that means) and it populated a few of the tables with data.

Not sure what any of them mean besides O2, and winaldl doesn't seem to have ANY documentation on what is what, and their webpage is pretty sparce too.

I am/have been running rich, so I did an average o2 sensor reading from the 174 samples I got just not. I averaged .600 for my readings. I let my car idle mostly, but did rev it up to 3,500 twice.

Isn't my O2 supposed to average more like .700? I'm still not familiar with anything. Please don't totally give up on me guys : )

Morley

Ignore O2 readings, you are interested in BLM and INT. What are they reading when in closed loop?

Christos

Not sure how to check to see if I'm in closed loop actually.

I was running about 185-190 degrees when I ran the BLM and INT logs (whatever they are)

<B>BLM</b>
Wide Avg 10
RPM \ MAF 24 48 72 96 120
800 143.6 0 0 0 0 0
1200 140.9 144 0 0 0 0
1600 145.3 0 0 0 0 0
2000 145.3 0 0 0 0 0
2400 146 0 0 0 0 0
2800 144 0 0 0 0 0
3200 144 0 0 0 0 0
3600 143 0 0 0 0 0
(rest was blank, as was past '120' at the top)

<B>INT</B>
Wide Avg 10
RPM \ MAF 24 48 72 96 120
400 0 0 0 0 0 0
800 124 0 0 0 0 0
1200 127.5 124 0 0 0 0
1600 130.9 0 0 0 0 0
2000 127.3 0 0 0 0 0
2400 127 0 0 0 0 0
2800 124 0 0 0 0 0
3200 125 0 0 0 0 0
3600 114 0 0 0 0 0

(rest was blank, including past '120')

I could only get these to run in "wide" mode, and they didn't seem to populate much.

Morley

Try running your laptop off of 110 power, I've had trouble with using the battery with the winaldl cable, it only gives a partial data stream.
By your BLM's you are running quite lean, all in the 140+ range. You are looking to have the Int and BLM's in the 126-132 range with 128 being dead on.

Christos

Ill see what I can do about getting another power source.

Laptop is a p800 256mb ram, 30gb drive, I got 3 batteries for it, all fully charged, (one in the system)

Living in the 3rd floor of an apartment, I couldn't easily plug it in anywhere, but I know a few people.

128 is dead on for BLM? What is the blm anyway?

I had an emissions check about a year ago, where i was told right then I was running pretty lean. About a week afterwards, i started getting 11 mpg (13 if i drove like granny) and I can smell lots of gas in my exhaust, so i figured i was running rich. I'm on my 2nd new o2 sensor.

Morley

The cable needs 12 volts and most laptops are 10.8V, trying to get 12V from it will kill it fast.


BLM= Block learn mulitplier
The mpg went down because the ecm is dumping in mass amounts of gas trying to correct the lean condition.

Christos

Mortley, thanks for al your help so far.

I never thought of my awful gas mileage problem being like this before, I had just figured it was a problem with a leaky injector or something.

I'm going to have to get a fuel pressure gauge and test things out.

About a year ago (5000 miles) I had my fuel filter replaced, my injectors cleaned, (while on the car, fluid flush) and a new set of spark plugs. Can't see what else could be causing this lean condition besides a FPR or the fuel pump. Hopefully my fuel pressure will show something.

Morley

Does the car seem to run ok, or does it idle like crap?

Christos

It used to idle like crap, but I replaced the IAC.

Now it idles (according to winaldl) at 925 RPM. This is with the idle screw backed all the way down as far as I can get. It doesn't stall anymore, so I figured it wasn't too bad of a thing.

I have gotten a code 33 and 34 many times before, Maf and burn off relay codes. Ive replaced the Maf twice, and replaced the burn off relay, and the power relay.

With a new maf (used a new wire one, and when that didn't work, a new heat-sink style) the car actually ran much worse.

I'm stull running my stock Maf, because my car runs much better with it then the replacements. I have both of the new relays installed still. Also a new TPS set to .54 volts, and 4.28 at WOT, as should be.

Car seems to run ok to a degree. It acts up once and a while, but it's been doing ok for a while lately. Just idles pretty high, and burns through a lot of gas.

Morley

The high idle is normal when using winaldl, the ecm locks the idle at 1000 rpm when in aldl mode (10k ohm resistor across pins A&B)

Also, you have an 86 IROC, there was a service bullitin for those cars released a number of years ago for the PROM. It addressed the following:
False code 34
Cold drive away hesitation
Torque converter lock up hunting
and a few other problems.

If the calpack was never replaced on your car then you need to do that first thing. The problem was that the UV windows wern't covered with the sticker right away when the chips were programmed and they got exposed to light before the stickers got put on. This started a slow process of erasing the chip and corrupting the data on it slowly over time.

Christos

Yeah, I forgot to mention that. I'm surprised you knew it too.

I hit up another website and read that, got the P/N, and replaced my current memcal with the updated memcal. Didn't seem to make a diffrence at all.

At this point, I figured I could modify the old memcal with a zif, and do burns, I just wanted to get a good scanner working, and understand it well enough so I would know if im hurting or helping.

I was pretty dissapointed the factory recall replacement memcal didn't fix my problem, i was sure it was it.

My ecm did fry before, wouldn't flash a code 12, so it was replaced once already. It flashes 12 now, but i still wonder if it somehow might have been damaged again.

Morley

Was the replacement ECM an actual 165, or was it the "service replacement" ECM?

Christos

Not too sure.

I didn't know my camaro well back when this happened. My brother in law took my car to the air force base to lift it and install new spark plugs (impossible to get to the rear ones, unless it's on a lift pretty much)

This didn't fix things. I tried flashing my aldl for the first time, and it didnt' flash anything. The AFB mechanic checked it out, and said the ECM was fried. He ordered one from a junkyard, and installed it. This fixed problems i was having with it then.

Car ran great until January 1st, 2000. After all the y2K BS, I make jokes I owned the solitary thing in the world which had problems with the y2K roll over. Just an odd coincidence.

Later, I read about the problem with the memcal, so I ordered the replacement about a year later, and installed it. Didn't help anything.

With the replacement memcal, I did see a professional aldl scanner show my car as a 1986 camaro, 305 tpi, so it looked totally right to me. The ecm wasn't recalled as I saw, it was just the memcal, so im still running this used replacement ecm.

Morley

The used ECM might be at fault, the service replacement ecm was supposed to cure a lot of the problems and frailties of the origional 165.
The service number on the replacement is 16198259, if you replace the ECM again you might want to look into getting one of these.

Never heard of not being able to get the rear plugs changed , they can be a pain but having to use a lift is a bit extreme.

Also, GM never did a "recall" on the memcals/proms, they just issued a service bullitin for them and the owner had to pay for replacement. And your local GM dealer wouldn't tell you about the SB, they would just replace the MAF and other expensive items while you went broke. You had to ask them point-blank about any service bullitins for it (I did anyway).
Luckily I opted to do all the troubleshooting myself and knew who to talk to about the results and they told me about the SB for my '85 IROC's prom.

Christos

That's an interesting idea. I didn't know there was an ECM problem, just the new memcal.

gmpartsdirect has that for about 110 as a reman. I think ill pick it up once I have the money for it. Should I carry over my new memcal over to this ECM? Or is it already updated?

Thanks again for all of your help.

Morley

If you have the "good" memcal, then I'd keep it. If you are going to be burning your own chips anyway your best bet would be to get an adaptor from Craig moates and chip to go with it. With the adaptor you will only be using the "cal" portion of the "pack" and the stock prom will be unused.

110 is a good deal for a known good ecm. If you go that route ask around here for anyone selling their old 165 (when they swap to S/D) to have as a spare.

The "problem" with the 165 as I have heard it, is that it is susceptible to physical shock and static electricity and the service replacement was supposed to be a stouter ecm.