165 MAF to 165 MAP using 808 code
10-14-2002, 01:08 PM
#101
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I may be wrong, but, it would seem that the Holden chip would be using a prom mounted ESC like the 730s do, why else would it have the spark tables, rpm setpoints, rate of retard, etc, etc, etc. I sent a post about using the 730 memcal with the onboard esc, possibly using the 128K chip instead of the 256k chip of the 730. Was hoping TC would reply, but no luck. The EST for the 165 does function but I would rather have more control of it as the 808 has no effect on its adjustment. I would rather control it through the program and bypass the external EST, as the external advance return is slow and too much.
10-15-2002, 06:29 AM
#102
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
Engine: LC9, LT1
Transmission: TKX, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, 3.23
This is. really important. And prolly one of the major reasons for NOT switching to this code base..
I truely hope someone has an answer. Not having knock retard is just. bad.
-- Joe
I truely hope someone has an answer. Not having knock retard is just. bad.
-- Joe
10-15-2002, 06:56 AM
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Originally posted by anesthes
This is. really important. And prolly one of the major reasons for NOT switching to this code base..
I truely hope someone has an answer. Not having knock retard is just. bad.
-- Joe
This is. really important. And prolly one of the major reasons for NOT switching to this code base..
I truely hope someone has an answer. Not having knock retard is just. bad.
-- Joe
10-15-2002, 04:13 PM
#104
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ERC,
If the 808 ecu which give or take a bit is identical to a 165 ecu has a prom mounted ESC then why would the 165 not have also? It would be cheaper for GM. I think that as electronics evolved and got smaller/more advanced, they were able to fit all the ESC circuits on the memcal. As is what happened by the time the 7730 SD ecu emerged but this is after the 165/808 days.
I think the guys down under are our best hope in solving this problem. I'd have thought that a 100k sensor with ESC module as found in our cars is required but we need to find out how to enable it in the code.
Cheers
Simon
If the 808 ecu which give or take a bit is identical to a 165 ecu has a prom mounted ESC then why would the 165 not have also? It would be cheaper for GM. I think that as electronics evolved and got smaller/more advanced, they were able to fit all the ESC circuits on the memcal. As is what happened by the time the 7730 SD ecu emerged but this is after the 165/808 days.
I think the guys down under are our best hope in solving this problem. I'd have thought that a 100k sensor with ESC module as found in our cars is required but we need to find out how to enable it in the code.
Cheers
Simon
10-15-2002, 06:01 PM
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Good thoughts Simon and Adrian. The EST used on my vette and most likely the Camaro works independantly of the ECM and does function on mine. I have verified it using Diacomm and Winaldl, by advancing (mechanically) the timing and trying it under load. What I dislik about the external EST is that it bumps alot of timing out and gives it back too slowly for my liking.
The HSV and other bins would probably be a better choice for mods vs the ASBX. I'll see if those bins are floating around and see if it's doable. Still, I am curious if the 730 memcal will work in the 165, I know it's a 256K chip vs 128K but you can dbl bin the chip, or load it with FFs, and it will work, if you don't, you get errors and CEL causing the dreaded limp mode.
I have got the ASBX to work with a stroker and work fairly well between 47-50 PSI fuel, idles a little rich and you still have to play a little with the idle table to lean out enough to control the idle. Realize of course that I'm running a lot @ 50 and good lift with a 11:1 and 310CFM @ 0.600 lift.
The HSV and other bins would probably be a better choice for mods vs the ASBX. I'll see if those bins are floating around and see if it's doable. Still, I am curious if the 730 memcal will work in the 165, I know it's a 256K chip vs 128K but you can dbl bin the chip, or load it with FFs, and it will work, if you don't, you get errors and CEL causing the dreaded limp mode.
I have got the ASBX to work with a stroker and work fairly well between 47-50 PSI fuel, idles a little rich and you still have to play a little with the idle table to lean out enough to control the idle. Realize of course that I'm running a lot @ 50 and good lift with a 11:1 and 310CFM @ 0.600 lift.
10-16-2002, 02:19 AM
#106
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The knock sensor can be turned on or off in all the bins, I believe I had it turned of in the bin I posted.
HSV bin can be used but we use a knock board and memcal like the 730 used (identical except for netres but works ok)
I have all the differerent memcals available but a std HSV will require more work than the one I posted.Go to esc enable temp and drop it back to 40 deg and knock retard will work :-)
HSV bin can be used but we use a knock board and memcal like the 730 used (identical except for netres but works ok)
I have all the differerent memcals available but a std HSV will require more work than the one I posted.Go to esc enable temp and drop it back to 40 deg and knock retard will work :-)
10-16-2002, 08:10 AM
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I've identified where to turn it on/off. Other than just trying it, can you use it with the 100k 165 knock sensor and sig in-sig out thru' the factory EST with a jumper? I looked at the sig in for the 808 vs 165, same wire location. Or would you have to change ks down to 4k as with the 730? TC, is what you're saying is that it's totally software driven and that the external EST is not needed, or did I fall off the boat? I see the min/max RPM enable, temp enable, rate, decay and slope. That would be slick and should work as the limp mode sets spark, air, fuel for a if all else. In fact, they will run without the chip plugged in, I wouldn't want to go too far tho'
10-16-2002, 12:42 PM
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I think the answer is that the ESC needs to be turned on in the bin as described by Tomcat. Using a 7730 memcal with a 3k knock sensor or the seperate esc module with a 100k sensor is up to you either should work.
100k sensor+esc module = 3k sensor+7730 memcal
as always I could be talking rubbish
Simon
100k sensor+esc module = 3k sensor+7730 memcal
as always I could be talking rubbish
Simon
10-18-2002, 08:10 PM
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Hi I am new to this Forum and this is my first post. The reason I am here is I have been asked to re map a 1988 corvette which has had a cam change and many other engine mods. ECM is 165 so I intend to convert MAF to MAP.
I have done some research and I am sure I can help you guys solve your ESC knock issues.
Direct knock sensor (3.9K) input is at B11 on the 808 ECM. Nobody has mentioned this on this forum and this is why you are not getting knock control. ESC signal input on the 165 is at B7 and the ESC signal comes from the 5 pin ESC Module. We don't use this ESC Module here in Australia.
So just to make clear on how to get knock control working on the 165 with the 808 code. Must use 3.9K knock sensor connected directly to B11 and must use memcal which has knock filter/ buffer found in V8 Aussie or 730 memcals.
It may be possible to use existing US ESC Module and 100K knock sensor if ESC signal which normally goes to B7 on the 165 ECM and feed this signal directly into the correct unused pin in the US type memcal. If anyone is interested in going this way please give me a shout.
Tomcat I had a look at the Pontiac 350 bin you posted and as you said the knock enable temp is at 106 degs C, disabling ESC. Please note that max knock output is set to only 1 deg retard. This would normally be set at 12 deg retard. Keep up the good work Tomcat I am sure these guys are going to enjoy MAP SD.
Cheers
I have done some research and I am sure I can help you guys solve your ESC knock issues.
Direct knock sensor (3.9K) input is at B11 on the 808 ECM. Nobody has mentioned this on this forum and this is why you are not getting knock control. ESC signal input on the 165 is at B7 and the ESC signal comes from the 5 pin ESC Module. We don't use this ESC Module here in Australia.
So just to make clear on how to get knock control working on the 165 with the 808 code. Must use 3.9K knock sensor connected directly to B11 and must use memcal which has knock filter/ buffer found in V8 Aussie or 730 memcals.
It may be possible to use existing US ESC Module and 100K knock sensor if ESC signal which normally goes to B7 on the 165 ECM and feed this signal directly into the correct unused pin in the US type memcal. If anyone is interested in going this way please give me a shout.
Tomcat I had a look at the Pontiac 350 bin you posted and as you said the knock enable temp is at 106 degs C, disabling ESC. Please note that max knock output is set to only 1 deg retard. This would normally be set at 12 deg retard. Keep up the good work Tomcat I am sure these guys are going to enjoy MAP SD.
Cheers
10-19-2002, 01:45 AM
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Kojab
Good info, I am getting knock counts from the ESC, but I had already moved the ESC wire. The counts are there, but I haven't seen any retard, just kc.
I guess I will have to go to the 3.9k ks and try it that way, I had moved the max retard to 5 degrees and 58C temp, 2k RPM. I am still playing the the injector constant to get fuel mileage up without power loss. I can send you the bin I am modding so see what you think. It has given me concerns.
Good info, I am getting knock counts from the ESC, but I had already moved the ESC wire. The counts are there, but I haven't seen any retard, just kc.
I guess I will have to go to the 3.9k ks and try it that way, I had moved the max retard to 5 degrees and 58C temp, 2k RPM. I am still playing the the injector constant to get fuel mileage up without power loss. I can send you the bin I am modding so see what you think. It has given me concerns.
10-19-2002, 07:24 AM
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ERC
Questions before answers. You say you are getting knock counts. What is telling you this? What scan tool are you using? Could it be that you have code 43 active in your ECM. If this is so, 6 degs of retard will emmediately be commanded. This would be expected if you were attempting to use a 100K knock sensor.
I would guess that your engine management (MIL) lamp won't be "ON" warning you of a current 43 fault code because you are probably using a bin file with flag bit 7 at $1DF turned off ($5D Code). All AUST HSV (Holden Special Vehicals) have this bit turned on because they all use knock sensors.
I personally don't use the $5D 808 code as the data aldl data is far to slow. I always use the 8192 used in the Aussie $5A and $12 code.
ERC please send me your bin file and I will check it out
Cheers
Questions before answers. You say you are getting knock counts. What is telling you this? What scan tool are you using? Could it be that you have code 43 active in your ECM. If this is so, 6 degs of retard will emmediately be commanded. This would be expected if you were attempting to use a 100K knock sensor.
I would guess that your engine management (MIL) lamp won't be "ON" warning you of a current 43 fault code because you are probably using a bin file with flag bit 7 at $1DF turned off ($5D Code). All AUST HSV (Holden Special Vehicals) have this bit turned on because they all use knock sensors.
I personally don't use the $5D 808 code as the data aldl data is far to slow. I always use the 8192 used in the Aussie $5A and $12 code.
ERC please send me your bin file and I will check it out
Cheers
10-19-2002, 11:11 PM
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Kojab
Would be happy to send you the file. Email me and I will get it to you. Where can I pick up a 8192
(AUST HSV) bin file? Which code is more proficent, the $5A or the $12 with TunerCat? I've had to do a lot of editing with the winbin file, as the 5D is not extended enough to work the file over.
Will the 8192 file function with no problems in the 165? I assume that it will.
Johnny
Would be happy to send you the file. Email me and I will get it to you. Where can I pick up a 8192
(AUST HSV) bin file? Which code is more proficent, the $5A or the $12 with TunerCat? I've had to do a lot of editing with the winbin file, as the 5D is not extended enough to work the file over.
Will the 8192 file function with no problems in the 165? I assume that it will.
Johnny
10-23-2002, 09:11 PM
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I am having problems getting winaldl to work. I have got it to work on a friends car that has the 165 computer. I have had diacom working on the car prior to this mod. Any ideas?
Also what value should I be at with 30 lbs Ford injectors.
If I remember correct I have it set to .0950 or so just to get the car to idle. The wide band o2 still reads 13.4.
thanks
Chuck MacTrinder
www.tccracing.com
Also what value should I be at with 30 lbs Ford injectors.
If I remember correct I have it set to .0950 or so just to get the car to idle. The wide band o2 still reads 13.4.
thanks
Chuck MacTrinder
www.tccracing.com
10-23-2002, 09:32 PM
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What fuel pressure are you running? I had my 30 Accels flowed at 40psi-30.1#, 43psi-31# & 47psi-33#. 47 had the best spray pattern. I am running at 47 and I finally settled on 0.983, I originally set them at 1.067, according to the formula, and you couldn't breathe at 47 and 40 they leaned out above 6k. Memory serves me, I think fords are calibrated at 39, and if youre running higher fp, its gonna be rich as... If you're running my earlier bin, youre probably gonna choke, and idle is real nasty. One other thing that I did was mount a S10 vac cannister near the map and fuel press regulator and got the manifold pulses to smooth out so the fuel pressure and map don't jump around so much, it seems so slow things down a bit and makes it easier to tune. I'll probably get flamed on that.
11-03-2002, 06:25 PM
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Has anyone got a communication software to work after doing this?
If so what type of cable/ pin locations are you using?
Thanks
Chuck MacTrinder
#72 www.tccracing.com
If so what type of cable/ pin locations are you using?
Thanks
Chuck MacTrinder
#72 www.tccracing.com
11-05-2002, 08:13 AM
#116
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A 730 memcal with knock board and knock sensor can be utilised if you require knock detection. All the ESC functions need to be turned on in the bin , I think from memory the file I posted had the coolant enble raised and max retard zero'd (false knock causes to many issues)
I have used winaldl with some good success , also some programs we use down under for datalogging but these are commercial software.
ERC if the map is jumping around too much you can tame down the transiant enfichment and enleanment by upping the kpa values slightly - really helps on big cam stuff.
Direct knock sensor (3.9K) input is at B11 on the 808 ECM. Nobody has mentioned this on this forum and this is why you are not getting knock control. ESC signal input on the 165 is at B7 and the ESC signal comes from the 5 pin ESC Module. We don't use this ESC Module here in Australia.
Totally correct , also the spark reference is realtive to the type of distributor pickup used to phase the rotor button properly - shouldnt be changed in the chev application.
One note though is that base timing is 10 deg on the 808 code not the 6 you guys are used to :-)
I have got the ASBX to work with a stroker and work fairly well between 47-50 PSI fuel, idles a little rich and you still have to play a little with the idle table to lean out enough to control the idle. Realize of course that I'm running a lot @ 50 and good lift with a 11:1 and 310CFM @ 0.600 lift.
Big cam will need the VE table lowered in the low rpm where the engine isnt as efficient - actually the VE table is where you do all your tuning just like in a 730 except power enrichment is not tps based but Map based on your desired open loop A/F table
Happy tuning :lala:
I have used winaldl with some good success , also some programs we use down under for datalogging but these are commercial software.
ERC if the map is jumping around too much you can tame down the transiant enfichment and enleanment by upping the kpa values slightly - really helps on big cam stuff.
Direct knock sensor (3.9K) input is at B11 on the 808 ECM. Nobody has mentioned this on this forum and this is why you are not getting knock control. ESC signal input on the 165 is at B7 and the ESC signal comes from the 5 pin ESC Module. We don't use this ESC Module here in Australia.
Totally correct , also the spark reference is realtive to the type of distributor pickup used to phase the rotor button properly - shouldnt be changed in the chev application.
One note though is that base timing is 10 deg on the 808 code not the 6 you guys are used to :-)
I have got the ASBX to work with a stroker and work fairly well between 47-50 PSI fuel, idles a little rich and you still have to play a little with the idle table to lean out enough to control the idle. Realize of course that I'm running a lot @ 50 and good lift with a 11:1 and 310CFM @ 0.600 lift.
Big cam will need the VE table lowered in the low rpm where the engine isnt as efficient - actually the VE table is where you do all your tuning just like in a 730 except power enrichment is not tps based but Map based on your desired open loop A/F table
Happy tuning :lala:
11-06-2002, 01:44 PM
#117
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Thanks for the info TC, I had already made some adjustments to the Kpa, I went up average of 5% above 2000 and it has helped, I also worked the VE table 1200 down - softened it up a bit, and worked on the table 2400 up increasing efficiency using Dyno 2k tables. It's slow, but I'm getting there.
Another thing if you reduce the Kpa % on park to drive, you don't have as much of a jolt and the idle is cleaner, heck I can turn on the AC at idle and not have to touch the throttle to keep it running in gear. I think that is called "eating your cake, and having it to". I'll send you some updates, if you want to look at them
Johnny
Another thing if you reduce the Kpa % on park to drive, you don't have as much of a jolt and the idle is cleaner, heck I can turn on the AC at idle and not have to touch the throttle to keep it running in gear. I think that is called "eating your cake, and having it to". I'll send you some updates, if you want to look at them
Johnny
Last edited by ERC; 11-06-2002 at 01:50 PM.
11-07-2002, 06:46 AM
#118
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Get WINALDL working and or a wideband 02 and start tuning your VE tables - just like tuning the maf on a normal 165 - you will be amased about how nice it will run :lala:
Should idle like a baby - the good thing is you can adjust whatever idle a/f you want to suit the big cam.
Should idle like a baby - the good thing is you can adjust whatever idle a/f you want to suit the big cam.
11-15-2002, 10:18 PM
#119
Originally posted by ERC
Good thoughts Simon and Adrian. The EST used on my vette and most likely the Camaro works independantly of the ECM and does function on mine.
Good thoughts Simon and Adrian. The EST used on my vette and most likely the Camaro works independantly of the ECM and does function on mine.
Last edited by drive it; 11-15-2002 at 10:23 PM.
11-15-2002, 10:21 PM
#120
Originally posted by Tomcat
Get WINALDL working and or a wideband 02 and start tuning your VE tables - just like tuning the maf on a normal 165 - you will be amased about how nice it will run :lala:
Should idle like a baby - the good thing is you can adjust whatever idle a/f you want to suit the big cam.
Get WINALDL working and or a wideband 02 and start tuning your VE tables - just like tuning the maf on a normal 165 - you will be amased about how nice it will run :lala:
Should idle like a baby - the good thing is you can adjust whatever idle a/f you want to suit the big cam.
11-16-2002, 09:01 PM
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Drive It
I haven't tried it with vemaster yet. It won't work with AFR Modifier. I don't know if the VATS still works with mine, I have a regular blank key cut, I will try it and let you know. I have a very modified ASBX.bin that I have been playing with on a 383 and 396. You have to do major changes to the VE table and others to get it to run.
Johnny
I haven't tried it with vemaster yet. It won't work with AFR Modifier. I don't know if the VATS still works with mine, I have a regular blank key cut, I will try it and let you know. I have a very modified ASBX.bin that I have been playing with on a 383 and 396. You have to do major changes to the VE table and others to get it to run.
Johnny
11-26-2002, 11:32 AM
#123
OK, getting closer......Tunercat answered back that the 808 does have support for vats, charcoal can and also egr as stated above. However air switch/divert. valves are unkown.
If anyone is scanning with diacom on the 808-I know that diacom shows air switch solenoid and air divert solonoid toggle on/off-could you take a look and see if it is showing it toggling on/off?
Can't think of any other way to really check it out....Thanks!
If anyone is scanning with diacom on the 808-I know that diacom shows air switch solenoid and air divert solonoid toggle on/off-could you take a look and see if it is showing it toggling on/off?
Can't think of any other way to really check it out....Thanks!
11-26-2002, 11:36 AM
#124
Originally posted by ERC
Kojab
Where can I pick up a 8192
(AUST HSV) bin file? Which code is more proficent, the $5A or the $12 with TunerCat? I've had to do a lot of editing with the winbin file, as the 5D is not extended enough to work the file over.
Will the 8192 file function with no problems in the 165? I assume that it will.
Johnny
Kojab
Where can I pick up a 8192
(AUST HSV) bin file? Which code is more proficent, the $5A or the $12 with TunerCat? I've had to do a lot of editing with the winbin file, as the 5D is not extended enough to work the file over.
Will the 8192 file function with no problems in the 165? I assume that it will.
Johnny
11-27-2002, 07:07 AM
#125
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No $5A or $12 support in tunercat or winbin - yah gotta do the hard yards and work on a disassembly.
$5D works more than adequately , I did another this week and it transformed the car from a hesitant slug into a barn stormer - admittadly the MAF was a bit suspect but it drove like a car should once I finished ( well they are never really finished but I got it damn close)
$5D works more than adequately , I did another this week and it transformed the car from a hesitant slug into a barn stormer - admittadly the MAF was a bit suspect but it drove like a car should once I finished ( well they are never really finished but I got it damn close)
11-30-2002, 03:21 PM
#126
OK, I'm goin crazy now.....trying to download the 5d ecu for win bin from diy-efi among other sites....when I click it it shows a text only. I have downloaded other ecus for winbin-I am in a decongestant fog right now with this cold...but can't figure it out! I know I'll probably feel stupid, but have to ask.
Sorry-disregard-I got it....
Sorry-disregard-I got it....
Last edited by drive it; 11-30-2002 at 05:25 PM.
12-12-2002, 06:54 PM
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Hi guys,
I have been reading your board for a while now I have some thing that may help you with your programming.
I have a friend with a vett using a 165 and map sensor.
works great he used a Kalmaker kit for programing the 165 ecm.
He has real time programming.
only thing I dont like is it uses security devices to stop you reading the bin file.
You may want to have a look at the site.
http://www.kalmaker.com.au/page12.html
nothing like having a laptop and realtime programing on the road.
Apples.
I have been reading your board for a while now I have some thing that may help you with your programming.
I have a friend with a vett using a 165 and map sensor.
works great he used a Kalmaker kit for programing the 165 ecm.
He has real time programming.
only thing I dont like is it uses security devices to stop you reading the bin file.
You may want to have a look at the site.
http://www.kalmaker.com.au/page12.html
nothing like having a laptop and realtime programing on the road.
Apples.
12-13-2002, 07:42 PM
#129
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KALMAKER - got it and love using it
You can read the binary but since it is a completely rewritten code it wont make snse in you winbin editor - no need if you owm a copy of kalmaker .
I still do a lot of hex stuff but great being able to tune on the fly and datalog at the same time
You can read the binary but since it is a completely rewritten code it wont make snse in you winbin editor - no need if you owm a copy of kalmaker .
I still do a lot of hex stuff but great being able to tune on the fly and datalog at the same time
01-07-2003, 03:05 PM
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I have ordered all the parts I think I'll need to do this conversion today. I figure if it doesnt work I'll need all the bits anyway to do a 7730 conversion.
Ordered
GM part no.
16151348 - memcal unit from a late speed density 7730 ecu
The eprom will need removing and an eeprom with 808 code loaded will replace it. This memcal will have the the knock filter chips on it and allow direct knock sensor input on ecu pin 11 as instructed by Kojab
10456549- 4k knock sensor
16137039- MAP sensor
Someone posted a pinout for an 808 ecu earlier in this thread and it doesnt show connections for some things such as pin C8 4th gear signal, A8 serial data, B2c fuel pump signal, D11 Aircon pressure fan switch, which are shown in a 165 pinout diagram. Are these things inputs/outputs used in 808 code?
I also compared the original bin supplied by tomcat and a stock 7730 bins's timeing tables the latter seems to have quite a bit more advance. Could a lot of the 7730 values such as the timing and VE tables be copied into the 808 code as a start?
I'm looking forward to giving it a try!
Thanks
Simon
Ordered
GM part no.
16151348 - memcal unit from a late speed density 7730 ecu
The eprom will need removing and an eeprom with 808 code loaded will replace it. This memcal will have the the knock filter chips on it and allow direct knock sensor input on ecu pin 11 as instructed by Kojab
10456549- 4k knock sensor
16137039- MAP sensor
Someone posted a pinout for an 808 ecu earlier in this thread and it doesnt show connections for some things such as pin C8 4th gear signal, A8 serial data, B2c fuel pump signal, D11 Aircon pressure fan switch, which are shown in a 165 pinout diagram. Are these things inputs/outputs used in 808 code?
I also compared the original bin supplied by tomcat and a stock 7730 bins's timeing tables the latter seems to have quite a bit more advance. Could a lot of the 7730 values such as the timing and VE tables be copied into the 808 code as a start?
I'm looking forward to giving it a try!
Thanks
Simon
01-08-2003, 08:45 AM
#133
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Email me Simon and I will forward a full wiring diagram for the 808 , A8 serial data is for 8192 bauld - not used on $5D code but is on $5A
B2 not used , spare input that can be used for something else if you manipulate the code.D11 not used but a/c pressure switch wired in series with a/c
.
B2 not used , spare input that can be used for something else if you manipulate the code.D11 not used but a/c pressure switch wired in series with a/c
.
01-08-2003, 01:00 PM
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Thanks Tomcat.
I have sent you a 'thirdgen private message' including my e-mail address as your address is hidden.
It would be a great help if you would send me a wiring diagram.
Simon
I have sent you a 'thirdgen private message' including my e-mail address as your address is hidden.
It would be a great help if you would send me a wiring diagram.
Simon
01-09-2003, 02:57 PM
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Adrian, (or anyone else)
My brains running a bit slow tonight and I'm getting a bit confused with some things. Can you answer a few questions for me please?
The 165 computer in my car can run either a $12, $5D or $5A Australian code?
The bin posted by Tomcat at the start of this thread is $5A code which has a 160 baud ALDL speed which some people seem to think is too slow but Tomcat has assured us it is OK
Tomcat has kindly sent me a wiring diagram for an 808 ecm. Is this diagram the same for $12 $5D $5A codes?
Which codes have Winbin definition files? I downloaded the definition file from the link earlier in this thread for $5A. Are others freely available.
Which code should I be using and what benefit does it have from the other 2? I need a code I can use winbin and Winaldl with
Thanks
Simon
My brains running a bit slow tonight and I'm getting a bit confused with some things. Can you answer a few questions for me please?
The 165 computer in my car can run either a $12, $5D or $5A Australian code?
The bin posted by Tomcat at the start of this thread is $5A code which has a 160 baud ALDL speed which some people seem to think is too slow but Tomcat has assured us it is OK
Tomcat has kindly sent me a wiring diagram for an 808 ecm. Is this diagram the same for $12 $5D $5A codes?
Which codes have Winbin definition files? I downloaded the definition file from the link earlier in this thread for $5A. Are others freely available.
Which code should I be using and what benefit does it have from the other 2? I need a code I can use winbin and Winaldl with
Thanks
Simon
01-09-2003, 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by SIMON HOLTBY
Adrian, (or anyone else)
My brains running a bit slow tonight and I'm getting a bit confused with some things. Can you answer a few questions for me please?
The 165 computer in my car can run either a $12, $5D or $5A Australian code?
The bin posted by Tomcat at the start of this thread is $5A code which has a 160 baud ALDL speed which some people seem to think is too slow but Tomcat has assured us it is OK
Tomcat has kindly sent me a wiring diagram for an 808 ecm. Is this diagram the same for $12 $5D $5A codes?
Which codes have Winbin definition files? I downloaded the definition file from the link earlier in this thread for $5A. Are others freely available.
Which code should I be using and what benefit does it have from the other 2? I need a code I can use winbin and Winaldl with
Thanks
Simon
Adrian, (or anyone else)
My brains running a bit slow tonight and I'm getting a bit confused with some things. Can you answer a few questions for me please?
The 165 computer in my car can run either a $12, $5D or $5A Australian code?
The bin posted by Tomcat at the start of this thread is $5A code which has a 160 baud ALDL speed which some people seem to think is too slow but Tomcat has assured us it is OK
Tomcat has kindly sent me a wiring diagram for an 808 ecm. Is this diagram the same for $12 $5D $5A codes?
Which codes have Winbin definition files? I downloaded the definition file from the link earlier in this thread for $5A. Are others freely available.
Which code should I be using and what benefit does it have from the other 2? I need a code I can use winbin and Winaldl with
Thanks
Simon
My brains running a bit slow tonight and I'm getting a bit confused with some things. Can you answer a few questions for me please?
The 165 computer in my car can run either a $12, $5D or $5A Australian code?
Yes
The bin posted by Tomcat at the start of this thread is $5A code which has a 160 baud ALDL speed which some people seem to think is too slow but Tomcat has assured us it is OK
If you mean the $5D, then Yes it is 160 baud
Tomcat has kindly sent me a wiring diagram for an 808 ecm. Is this diagram the same for $12 $5D $5A codes?
Yes, except for the serial data line, as previously mentioned by Tomcat
Which codes have Winbin definition files? I downloaded the definition file from the link earlier in this thread for $5A. Are others freely available.
There are WinBin ecu files for the $5D and $12 as far as I know
Which code should I be using and what benefit does it have from the other 2? I need a code I can use winbin and Winaldl with
If you want to use Winaldl then I'd imagine you'll have to use the the $5D code as it's 160 baud and I believe Winaldl only works with 160 baud ecms
If you wanted to use the 8192 baud codes then you'd probably need to BUY some software like EFILive
Thanks
Simon
Adrian
01-10-2003, 01:59 PM
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Adrian,
Thanks for answering those questions. Yes I did get $5a and $5d mixed up. I think I'll see how I get on with $5d first but will contact you again if I need a $12 bin.
Is Tomcats original $5d bin file the best one to start with? Anyone got anything better?
I think I need to alter the bin to allow for the following..
My car is a 350 so I'll have to alter the injector constant.
A 7730 memcal and 4k knock sensor is on order so I'll need to enable knock.
I dont have EGR so that can be disabled although looking at the 808 wiring diagram it doesnt seem to show an EGR valve so I assume it is already dissabled.
The air pump has been removed so that isnt relevant and 808 code again doesnt seem to support it.
That only leaves the charcoal cannister. Do I, can I enable this? What happens if it is not enabled? How will the petrol tank fumes be vented if it is not operating?
Any comments/advice appreciated
Thank you
Simon
Thanks for answering those questions. Yes I did get $5a and $5d mixed up. I think I'll see how I get on with $5d first but will contact you again if I need a $12 bin.
Is Tomcats original $5d bin file the best one to start with? Anyone got anything better?
I think I need to alter the bin to allow for the following..
My car is a 350 so I'll have to alter the injector constant.
A 7730 memcal and 4k knock sensor is on order so I'll need to enable knock.
I dont have EGR so that can be disabled although looking at the 808 wiring diagram it doesnt seem to show an EGR valve so I assume it is already dissabled.
The air pump has been removed so that isnt relevant and 808 code again doesnt seem to support it.
That only leaves the charcoal cannister. Do I, can I enable this? What happens if it is not enabled? How will the petrol tank fumes be vented if it is not operating?
Any comments/advice appreciated
Thank you
Simon
01-12-2003, 12:54 PM
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So the fuel tank vent pipe goes to a charcoal canister and then to the throttle body? I'd have thought this would create a vacume leak causing problems at idle especially. Obviously not though.
I'll remove the purge valve and connect both ends of the hose together unless advised otherwise.
I think this is a better/safer idea than removing the charcoal cannister and leaving an open vent
Simon
I'll remove the purge valve and connect both ends of the hose together unless advised otherwise.
I think this is a better/safer idea than removing the charcoal cannister and leaving an open vent
Simon
01-19-2003, 04:47 AM
#142
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I'm still waiting for parts from the US but in the meantime have been trying to create a suitable bin file and also taking a look at WinALDL.
First problem is, can a scan tool detect knock with 808 code? Is it output in the data stream. I notice with WinALDL that when I change its settings to an 808 ecm the spark counts table dissapears but is there when set for use with a 165 ecm. Its going to be difficult to tune the spark table with no knock info.
Alterations made to the bin so far.(using winbin)
Values section
EST spark ref angle set to 8 deg
EST max spark advance set to 41.8 deg as this is what it was with165 ecu
DIAG mode forced advance . I set this value to zero as I dont want extra advance because I'm in diagnostic mode
ESC coolant temp enable set to -5.5 degc
ESC max retard set to 12 deg
I notice that the fans are set to come on at 98 degC with 808 and 107 C with 165 I decided to leave the temp at 98
Where is TCC road speed lock up set? With 165 there were lock and unlock values for high and low gears. I see there are values "TCC Road speed upper limit for lock" and one for lower. Is it these values that determine what speed the TCC locks in high gear?
Injector size set for 350 engine
Arrays section
ESC attack and percentage recovery rate values copied from 165
idle rpm vs battery voltage set to values suitable for my car.
I'm still unsure what to do with the charcoal cannister. I'm thinking of..
a) Connect the tank vent pipe that goes to the CC directly into the throttle body and remove the CC and all its vacume pipes wiring etc. But am worried it may suck petrol out the tank.
b) Crimp/seal the tank vent pipe and drill a v.small hole in the filler cap to allow the tank to vent.
Thanks for any answers to the above
Simon
First problem is, can a scan tool detect knock with 808 code? Is it output in the data stream. I notice with WinALDL that when I change its settings to an 808 ecm the spark counts table dissapears but is there when set for use with a 165 ecm. Its going to be difficult to tune the spark table with no knock info.
Alterations made to the bin so far.(using winbin)
Values section
EST spark ref angle set to 8 deg
EST max spark advance set to 41.8 deg as this is what it was with165 ecu
DIAG mode forced advance . I set this value to zero as I dont want extra advance because I'm in diagnostic mode
ESC coolant temp enable set to -5.5 degc
ESC max retard set to 12 deg
I notice that the fans are set to come on at 98 degC with 808 and 107 C with 165 I decided to leave the temp at 98
Where is TCC road speed lock up set? With 165 there were lock and unlock values for high and low gears. I see there are values "TCC Road speed upper limit for lock" and one for lower. Is it these values that determine what speed the TCC locks in high gear?
Injector size set for 350 engine
Arrays section
ESC attack and percentage recovery rate values copied from 165
idle rpm vs battery voltage set to values suitable for my car.
I'm still unsure what to do with the charcoal cannister. I'm thinking of..
a) Connect the tank vent pipe that goes to the CC directly into the throttle body and remove the CC and all its vacume pipes wiring etc. But am worried it may suck petrol out the tank.
b) Crimp/seal the tank vent pipe and drill a v.small hole in the filler cap to allow the tank to vent.
Thanks for any answers to the above
Simon
01-25-2003, 05:31 PM
#143
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Did the conversion today and it initially ran terribly, way too weak. I adjusted the injector constant to about 0.15 and it runs great. It has a good idle and seems smoother and more powerful than MAF. I could certainly recomend converting.
I'd like to tune the VE table but winaldl doesnt show any values in the blm or int tables only the o2 table.
I get raw data from the Map sensor and blm values but how do I use these numbers to decide which values to alter in the VE table? Can someone give me an idiots guide please?
Also how do I detect knock to check the knock sensor is working?
Thanks
Simon
350 camaro
I'd like to tune the VE table but winaldl doesnt show any values in the blm or int tables only the o2 table.
I get raw data from the Map sensor and blm values but how do I use these numbers to decide which values to alter in the VE table? Can someone give me an idiots guide please?
Also how do I detect knock to check the knock sensor is working?
Thanks
Simon
350 camaro
01-25-2003, 06:35 PM
#144
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Simon what type of cable did you use to make winaldl work. I did this to my car, it ran,but I was unable to get any data from it...
I did a back to back test with it compared to the maf. At Road Atlanta with the maf I would reach 147 m.p.h. at the end of the back strecth. With the map it would hit 154 m.p.h. Great improvement I just want to be able to read the data.
Thanks
Chuck MacTrinder
#72 www.tccracing.com
I did a back to back test with it compared to the maf. At Road Atlanta with the maf I would reach 147 m.p.h. at the end of the back strecth. With the map it would hit 154 m.p.h. Great improvement I just want to be able to read the data.
Thanks
Chuck MacTrinder
#72 www.tccracing.com
01-26-2003, 03:28 AM
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Racer,
I'm using a the simple "2 transistor" cable/interface to connect. It is mentioned quite often on this site and there are several websites showing how to build one. I'll try and find a link for you if you cant.
In a previous post you say that you can connect to a friends 165 computer which makes me think your existing lead is oK.
Have you remembered that the connection is different with the computer running in 808.? With 165 there is a serial data output going to the aldl connecter, But with 808 the data is sent on the SES light. When you connect the 10k resistor to the same pins as 165 the SES light will start flickering. You need to connect your computer to the wire between the ses light and its input at the ecu which I think is A5 . Before you would have connected to A8 but this is now redundant.
Also in Winaldl have you gone into setup to select an 808 ecu as it can scan many ecu's?
Did you find Tomcats original bin way too lean? What changes to the bin have you made?
It is such a shame that Winaldl does not fill the BLM and INT tables. I'm going to try some earlier versions. Anyone emailed the guy who wrote the program to report this bug?
I think we have all found that this change to MAP has been a big improvement. Thanks to Tomcat, Adrian and others for their help
Simon
I'm using a the simple "2 transistor" cable/interface to connect. It is mentioned quite often on this site and there are several websites showing how to build one. I'll try and find a link for you if you cant.
In a previous post you say that you can connect to a friends 165 computer which makes me think your existing lead is oK.
Have you remembered that the connection is different with the computer running in 808.? With 165 there is a serial data output going to the aldl connecter, But with 808 the data is sent on the SES light. When you connect the 10k resistor to the same pins as 165 the SES light will start flickering. You need to connect your computer to the wire between the ses light and its input at the ecu which I think is A5 . Before you would have connected to A8 but this is now redundant.
Also in Winaldl have you gone into setup to select an 808 ecu as it can scan many ecu's?
Did you find Tomcats original bin way too lean? What changes to the bin have you made?
It is such a shame that Winaldl does not fill the BLM and INT tables. I'm going to try some earlier versions. Anyone emailed the guy who wrote the program to report this bug?
I think we have all found that this change to MAP has been a big improvement. Thanks to Tomcat, Adrian and others for their help
Simon
01-26-2003, 11:54 AM
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Ok thats what I am missing. I hooked up directly to the aldl port just like the 165. So I need to go directly to the A5 pin going into the computer? Forgive me for being stupid.
As far as being lean, yes I could not get the car to go lower than 15 to 1 afr reading on my wideband o2 sensor. that is why I switched back to the maf system. I did not want to run around a 2.5 mile track for 20 laps with the car that lean.
Thanks
Chuck MacTrinder
#72 www.tccracing.com
As far as being lean, yes I could not get the car to go lower than 15 to 1 afr reading on my wideband o2 sensor. that is why I switched back to the maf system. I did not want to run around a 2.5 mile track for 20 laps with the car that lean.
Thanks
Chuck MacTrinder
#72 www.tccracing.com
01-26-2003, 12:54 PM
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I thought that was what you had done wrong. Yes data is on a5.
Strange that you converted back to maf. Just keep increasing the fuel flow constant "Kinjflow" until you are about there and then fine tune the ve table.
Simon
Strange that you converted back to maf. Just keep increasing the fuel flow constant "Kinjflow" until you are about there and then fine tune the ve table.
Simon
01-27-2003, 09:13 PM
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Car: 1985 Firebird
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700R4
with the 808 you need 10k resitor on aldl ports a and b then you need to use the ses light output from the ecm for the signal
01-27-2003, 09:43 PM
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Sounds great Thanks for the help.
I did keep increase inj size, but just did not get it rich enough.
I only had 3 practice sessions and the cops just don't like the car on the street. I did see the big diff between the 2 and know I have to get the tune right. Some dyno time over the winter is in need.
Thanks again
Chuck MacTrinder
#72 www.tccracing.com
I did keep increase inj size, but just did not get it rich enough.
I only had 3 practice sessions and the cops just don't like the car on the street. I did see the big diff between the 2 and know I have to get the tune right. Some dyno time over the winter is in need.
Thanks again
Chuck MacTrinder
#72 www.tccracing.com
01-28-2003, 06:44 AM
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I emailed Winaldl about the BLM bug a while ago but never followed it up as I now use a different scan too that I bought.
Maybe email joboy about the problem and he will look at it.
I think from memeory the bin I originally posted was for a mild cam , normally the inj constant for a 305 is 0.1445 and 0.1330 for a 350 both using there original injectors.
This bin should need a fair bit of tuning to get it right but thats why we are all here , not to get something done for us but to learn.
Amazing how responsive MAP feels compared to MAF , I am currently playing around with my LS1 Monaro ( soon to be your GTO) and I am converting it to MAP - on a manual we normally pickup about 5kw and better throttle reponse.
Maybe email joboy about the problem and he will look at it.
I think from memeory the bin I originally posted was for a mild cam , normally the inj constant for a 305 is 0.1445 and 0.1330 for a 350 both using there original injectors.
This bin should need a fair bit of tuning to get it right but thats why we are all here , not to get something done for us but to learn.
Amazing how responsive MAP feels compared to MAF , I am currently playing around with my LS1 Monaro ( soon to be your GTO) and I am converting it to MAP - on a manual we normally pickup about 5kw and better throttle reponse.