I bought a used fuel injection setup with the Accel DFI Gen7 computer. As I'm going over the instructions and wiring harness I see that it has been hacked up some. The CTS connector was cut off (no big deal) but the IAC was completely removed (cut out, taped and buried in the loom) and I'm wondering what else might be wrong with it.

So I'm thinking about buying a modern computer and harness to replace the DFI stuff which is getting old anyway. Holley HP and Fast 2.0 both caught my attention and they sell kits to use with your own MPFI hardware.

Does anyone have experience with either of these two new EFI systems (including the throttle body version)? Or even the Gen7 Accel stuff? I'm pretty sure I can get the hacked up Accel harness working, but I'm wondering if I'd be better off spending some extra money and going with the newer technology right off the bat.

Thoughts?

I'm going to call Fast and Holley and get some more particulars, but I'm curious if anyone else has already gone down this road.

http://www.holley.com/550-604.asp
http://www.fuelairspark.com/fas/ez-e...-fit-typehtml/

 

Have you looked at www.dynamicefi.com? Just sayin.

 

Not for this project, no. I considered it for my TBI truck before I learned the capabilities of the 7427...but my Camaro is carbed. Dynamic does not offer harnesses, correct? I'd rather not have to source a harness from the junkyard.

 

Painless wiring might be able to make one specific for your car..

 

Why not just a megasquirt ? Fast processor, more functionality, regular updates, advanced tuning software..

-- Joe

 

EBL uses a GM puter then modifies it to EBL functions. So a stock harness for that donor ECM is the ticket. EBay? Or a custome on fro painless wiring. I recall s10wildside member once offered some services in this regard and for MS as well... See his posts....

 

I run gen 7s on 2 of my vehicles and love it.

 

X2!!!!!
In the right hands they'll still drive circles around most of the "newer" stuff.
Remember, when FAST introduced their XFI 2.0, the 4 "new" calibration tables they offered Accel has had since '02.

So much for newer, faster etc.

 

Curiously, what tables are those?

-- Joe

 

Virtually every feature listed under "Features new to 2.0" has been on the Accel since '02. Some are too vague to compare, i.e. "more accurate warm up enrichment, improved on board diagnostics".
http://www.fuelairspark.com/fas/xfi-...a-logginghtml/

But I guess because they advertise the most that makes them the best right?
Not hardly.

 

You hit it on the head..."In the right hands..." The Gen 7s and Thrusters have a lot of features. Many people get lost and confused with them, they aren't always the easiest to grasp, but when you get them right they work great.

 

Sounds like the same features I'd expect any EMS to do.. $1,800 is kind of a lot of money for an ECM.

Gen7 is actually kind of simple. You enter basic information on the blueish configuration screen, you verify your tps, wideband, spark bias and start working on your VE table.



-- Joe

 

Well, I certainly would like to use the EFI I've already bought as long as it is capable of what I want to do.

I already emailed Mark and he has me on the right track to repair the harness, so the only other part left is the configuration and tuning. And hoping all the used stuff I bought is still functional...I do see I'm missing a "spark enhancer box" for my dual-sync dizzy to run SFI.

When I called Holley they were fairly helpful and pointed me to a free download of the software from their website. It's more user-friendly than the Accel for sure, but the end result does look like it would be similar in functionality.

Mark, are there custom outputs in the Accel software I could use to, for example, energize the reverse lockout solenoid on my 6spd when the ECM is at idle state? And are there any software upgrades or anything required to use the fan and nitrous control, etc.?

 

I am partial to my ls1 ecm swap 24x kit for my efi sbc. Lsx is the current market and tuners are dime a dozen for those systems using hp tuners or similar. Can take a ls1 fbody harness and cut out what you dont need and simply extend it. Buy 24x parts for under 300$ from efi connection

 

Plus the Gen 7 has 5 transient fueling tables, XFI has 2. XFI has individual cylinder fuel and spark trim, the Accel only fuel.
But the XFI is all or nothing. In other words if you add or subtract fuel or spark in any cylinder it'll be from idle to wot. The Accel is done by load and rpm. Much more useable. If you were to reduce spark to an single cylinder on the XFI because it runs hotter than others at WOT, then guess what, that cylinder will have the same less timing at idle as well. That could have a negative effect on your idle quality etc.

 

This kinda stuff is only an advantage to those who actually monitor cylinder egt's and air fuels and i am willing to bet 98% of tuners on this forum do not have the budget or patience to setup their headers for individual cylinder control for egt and o2's. A 4 or 8 cyl datalogger for that stuff isnt cheap. I am pushing 1200-1300 hp on pump gas which is scary yet i dont even monitor individual cylinders because its expensive and not real easy to do with all the piping in the bay lol
If it was relatively cost effective i would try it

Its all great stuff but most here for relatively mild setups will never need half the features modern efi systems provide. Why isnt there a cheap simple system? Ez efi kits try to make it simple but you lose alot of good basic control of the fueling and timing. Seems like nothing is in between except for oem systems either factory tpi or 411 ecm swap stuff or ebl flash

 

As mentioned the Accel Thruster is a great compromise. Plenty of tunability on it's own, and by accessing those cals thru the Gen 7 software you get more features/tunability.

Don't underestimate the difference having extra transient tables can make. Once they're done correctly it can make even the biggest baddest application drive really well.

 

I agree to a point. While I also don't need per cylinder egt monitoring and such, I like launch control, boost control, nitrous control, multiple configurable outputs based on any condition you desire, real autotune based on wideband that will not only tune part throttle VE, but accel enrichment, power enrichment, and even warmup. Plus an actual AFR table is a lot more beneficial in my opinion that a stupid BLM based on a constant target AFR.

Then there is stuff like staged injection, can support, flex fuel, etc that I've not even scratched the surface yet.

Cost me $350 total and plugs into a factory '165 harness. Isn't that cheap?

-- Joe

 

I dont buy much into those laser gun readings of header surface temps. Its kinda difficult to get accurate readings. Alot of engine builders seem to agree if you research the subject. They can help locate a dead cylinder but i wouldnt necessarily use it to tune mixtures

 

With all due respect have you ever taken the temp readings, then changed that cylinders' fueling and then taken them again? My guess is no you haven't. When you've actually done it let us know.
Yes you have to make sure you shoot it in the same spot every time but it's not that hard to do. And it can most surely make a difference on certain applications.

 

There are some applications where that degree of critique is needed to get every single bit one can out of a combo. Guys like Orr are making so much power it doesn't matter. He's already exceeded what his car is teched for at the track, and will require lots of safety to run it's potential. I "get it" on a rail car that's in the 6s and needs to be within a 100th every pass, but dude. This is thirdgen.org.

-- Joe

 

You're right. If you want to settle for your car running "pretty good" vs "really good" then so be it. That's certainly your call.

 

Lol trust me i wouldnt say that if i didn't try it. I had a year of overheating problems in which i tried all kinds of timing and airfuel ratios thinking i could get exhaust temps down. I had some wide range of readings cyl to cyl. So i tried 16 to 30 deg timing at idle. 13's to 15's air fuel. Didnt make much difference with my laser temp gun. Depending how you use it on the round tubes it gets varied readings. I never cured the cylinder temp discrepancies but plugs looked fairly even and piston carbon was fairly even on tear down

So no i dont really buy into temp reading at idle on surface temps. Egt probes are only way to do it

 

Sorry, I'm not following you on this one. Can you elaborate? I just need to send a 12v or ground to the solenoid while at idle. How would I go about this via the software and wiring? Probably a lot of 6spd guys who would be interested in this...

 

My stuff runs really good. Heck, my damn riding mower runs really good.

I don't think woody is going sequential and coil on plug, so I don't think the cylinder trims are something that he cares about at this point.

I thought every aftermarket EMS (that supports sequential) had indvidual cylinder spark trims that were LOAD/RPM based ?



Megasquirt does of course.

-- Joe

 

I don't know what he's talking about, but the gen7 has two auxiliary outputs, and TCC control.

Unfortunately, they cannot really be programed to "do anything" like most aftermarket systems, they are designed to do specific tasks as their conditions are somewhat limited. #1 is meant as an A/C clutch disable, or VTEC output. It's only conditional is TPS %..

Output #2 is a little better, it can enable/disable based on an RPM threshold or coolant temperature. (As it's intended to drive a shift light or 2nd coolant fan). I'd try to use this one.

The TCC control has conditionals based on RPM and TPS input, so you could probably rig that to work as well.

-- Joe

 

Seems like TCC or shift light would be the opposite of what I want since they enable above a certain rpm. I'd like to enable the reverse lockout at under a certain rpm, and ideally be mph based as well. From what I've read, the LT1 cars enable it under 4mph or something...not sure if it has anything to do with rpm.

 

I don't think it's going to happen with the Gen7, but maybe efiguy knows another way ?

Here is an example how we do it on Megasquirt. In this example I'm using output port 5 to control my fan. Under condition from the dropdown list I chose "coolant". In your case, you would chose MPH. I selected > 180, but you would select < 1. Then you could even add a second condition of RPM, or whatever you wanted.

I realize it's something you want, but I'd probably be willing to live without it if the EMS would run the engine good enough, which while not very feature backed for 'extra things', the gen7 will do fuel and spark just fine.

-- Joe