870 ECU to 165 ECU swap, injectors pulsing too fast
#51
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From: LeRoy, NY
Car: 2003 Hyundai Tiburon GT
Engine: 2.7L V6
Transmission: 6-speed
Axle/Gears: 4.41
Re: 870 ECU to 165 ECU swap, injectors pulsing too fast
The only way you could test the PROM is by getting your hands on either a spare MEMCAL (which I would advise) or a Moates BURN2. The PROM is most likely fried if it was just floating around inside the ECM when received. It's highly probable you installed it backwards and power got to the wrong pins of the chip, killing it within milliseconds.
The ECM decides the starting fuel pulses based on something like 3 different tables... Fuel pulse duration vs coolant and air temp, duration vs batt volts, duration vs TPS position. This is called "Start Mode". Your problem is occuring when the ECM switches to "Run Mode" at 400 RPM and looks for the MAF as an input as it controls the F/I pulse and the spark timing. Don't start pointing fingers at the MAF yet... Worry about the MEMCAL first.
You will want to look for the following "Morse" codes: 4-1 (Bad MEMCAL, cylinder select error), 5-1 (Bad MEMCAL), 5-5, (ECM error).
The ECM decides the starting fuel pulses based on something like 3 different tables... Fuel pulse duration vs coolant and air temp, duration vs batt volts, duration vs TPS position. This is called "Start Mode". Your problem is occuring when the ECM switches to "Run Mode" at 400 RPM and looks for the MAF as an input as it controls the F/I pulse and the spark timing. Don't start pointing fingers at the MAF yet... Worry about the MEMCAL first.
You will want to look for the following "Morse" codes: 4-1 (Bad MEMCAL, cylinder select error), 5-1 (Bad MEMCAL), 5-5, (ECM error).
#52
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From: PA
Car: 1996 Camaro, 1985 Camaro
Engine: 3.8, 3.4
Transmission: WC T5, 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3.23(?), 3.42
Re: 870 ECU to 165 ECU swap, injectors pulsing too fast
I didn't install it incorrectly. Though rattling around inside the ECM box couldn't have been good for it though, but it seems extreme that it would've killed it, but yeah, I'm gonna check my wiring again on monday, and chances are I won't find anything new, so most likely I'll still want the memcals, I mean its at least a 33% chance that that's the problem, and its cheaper than replacing the whole ECU or getting a chip burner and such. I'll still want to tune it eventually, but for now I just want it to run.
#53
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From: Chasing Electrons
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Re: 870 ECU to 165 ECU swap, injectors pulsing too fast
To check if the PROM is OK do this:
At key-on, engine-off, observe the SES light. It should turn on briefly, blink off, then turn on solid. Can re-test after 10-seconds of key-off.
It needs to do the blink-off, if it does the PROM is OK and the ECM is running from it.
For the ALDL connector, wire the serial data to both pins: M & E
RBob.
At key-on, engine-off, observe the SES light. It should turn on briefly, blink off, then turn on solid. Can re-test after 10-seconds of key-off.
It needs to do the blink-off, if it does the PROM is OK and the ECM is running from it.
For the ALDL connector, wire the serial data to both pins: M & E
RBob.
#54
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Joined: Jul 2009
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From: PA
Car: 1996 Camaro, 1985 Camaro
Engine: 3.8, 3.4
Transmission: WC T5, 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3.23(?), 3.42
Re: 870 ECU to 165 ECU swap, injectors pulsing too fast
So if the prom is bad it will just kick the SES light on solid with ign pwr, correct? As for M & E, you are saying to take 1 wire and run to both correct, if so can you specify color or location of the serial data wire? And is it possible for the EEPROM to be only partially bad and still pass that test?
Last edited by Project 3.4 Camaro; 09-11-2011 at 05:16 PM.
#55
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From: LeRoy, NY
Car: 2003 Hyundai Tiburon GT
Engine: 2.7L V6
Transmission: 6-speed
Axle/Gears: 4.41
Re: 870 ECU to 165 ECU swap, injectors pulsing too fast
Serial data wire is in ECM A8 and is as orange as the power wires... It will pass through the ECM harness into the dash harness at the C207 (terminal J) under the dash and then it's supposed to run to both holes E and M of the ALDL...
Last edited by Maverick H1L; 09-11-2011 at 06:11 PM.
#56
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From: Chasing Electrons
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Re: 870 ECU to 165 ECU swap, injectors pulsing too fast
So if the prom is bad it will just kick the SES light on solid with ign pwr, correct? As for M & E, you are saying to take 1 wire and run to both correct, if so can you specify color or location of the serial data wire? And is it possible for the EEPROM to be only partially bad and still pass that test?
Yes to the ALDL, the one wire goes to both pins. One pin is for 160 baud data, the other for 8192 baud data.
RBob.
#57
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Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 2009
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From: PA
Car: 1996 Camaro, 1985 Camaro
Engine: 3.8, 3.4
Transmission: WC T5, 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3.23(?), 3.42
Re: 870 ECU to 165 ECU swap, injectors pulsing too fast
SES light steady, I even did this on my corsica before hand to know exactly what I was looking for, came on momentarily flicked off then immediately back on, camaro, just steady, not even a hint of a flicker, checked several times to be sure. Also, even after running a new wire to M and splicing it onto serial data(E) I still get nothing on the scan tool, for either the vehicle the ECU is from, or the vehicle the memcal is from, speaking of which, which car should I scan for? Last but not least, could a bad EEPROM cause the scan tool to not get a reading? Certainly seems like things are pointing to the EEPROM, also I tested pulse voltage, it varied while cranking, starting out at .03 or something, then bumped to like 1.5, then topped out at 2.8 or so when the engine tried to start.
Lastly, maverick, please PM me paypal info and shipping amount for the modules, things appear to indicate a bad EEPROM which makes sense, dead EEPROM causes ECU to try to start off of a backup chip setup for dizzy reference pulses instead of DIS pulses, and voila...fubar injection pulses...makes sense.
Lastly, maverick, please PM me paypal info and shipping amount for the modules, things appear to indicate a bad EEPROM which makes sense, dead EEPROM causes ECU to try to start off of a backup chip setup for dizzy reference pulses instead of DIS pulses, and voila...fubar injection pulses...makes sense.
Last edited by Project 3.4 Camaro; 09-12-2011 at 03:31 PM.
#58
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From: Chasing Electrons
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Re: 870 ECU to 165 ECU swap, injectors pulsing too fast
SES light steady, I even did this on my corsica before hand to know exactly what I was looking for, came on momentarily flicked off then immediately back on, camaro, just steady, not even a hint of a flicker, checked several times to be sure. Also, even after running a new wire to M and splicing it onto serial data(E) I still get nothing on the scan tool, for either the vehicle the ECU is from, or the vehicle the memcal is from, speaking of which, which car should I scan for? Last but not least, could a bad EEPROM cause the scan tool to not get a reading?
RBob.
#59
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 4
From: PA
Car: 1996 Camaro, 1985 Camaro
Engine: 3.8, 3.4
Transmission: WC T5, 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3.23(?), 3.42
Re: 870 ECU to 165 ECU swap, injectors pulsing too fast
Well then, I think I have at least a 85% probability of a bad EEPROM, can't wait to get those memcals off maverick and see if she'll roar again for me.
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