Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

can someone briefly or in a tunning for dummies meathod explain why i would want a DFI or a FAST system over just having my stock ecm programmed?

i can't seem to find anyone that deals with the stock ecm programming in my tri state area yet everyone deals with the above so as much as i am tired of spending money to get my motor to run i want it to run and would like to know why i would want to change the system.

what is the reason someone would change to DFI or FAST when you can tune a stock ecm?

Grumpy

Why not learn how to tune the stock ecm?.

Then if you build enough engine to really need EFI tuning, you'll have a firm foothold on what to do.

With some of the newer products available the stockers are real time, and easy to work with.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

why because i do not have the time to learn how to build an engine....it isn't that i don't want to. i've been reading up as much as i can but at this rate i won't have a running car for a few years.

the motor is a seriously built motor however no one in my tristate area can deal with stock ecms yet they claim if i upgrade to dfi/fast type setups they can do it no problem. i really don't want to spend the 1000+ or so those setups will cost me when i've seen first hand how the stock ecm can be programmed to work.



i cannot find anyone in a 15 hour drive that has a certified business and can program my speed density ecm tpi car. i've tried having people help me with it and have gotten the car to run great for the most part when it's warmed up and idled however it doesn't start well at all (have to hold pedal to the floor to even attempt) and when it does i have to keep it going until it warms up with the gas pedal otherwise when it dies it fouls plugs. until it warms up the car spits out dixie cups of fuel.

i need some serious help on the issue but i have no where to turn and not enough time in the day to go back to engine building basics.........unfortunately it seems like that's the only thing i'll be able to which means i'm out of a car for a year or so.

i can't believe it's that difficult though, i wish i knew what to do. if i could find someone that could get it to start on it's own without any stupid tricks with this setup i'd gladly give them a very nice reward. i was told from the last tuner that it is difficult because the car doesn't have enough vacuum so i'm trying to track that down right now.


anyhow that's why i wanted to know what the difference is, because i could have the car tuned by the weekend but it seems to me either these shops don't know their stuff or they just want money. i want to know what i'm getting that's so great about these fast/dfi setups.

JMatlock88

Change to DFI if you need:
Frequent or on-the-fly tuning
Staged nitrous control
2 bar MAP for supercharging

It is cost effective to stick with the stock ECM if you dont see yourself changing the combination frequently. My dyno tune ran me $500. Compare that with $2000+ DFI systems. As far as driveability, the stock ECM still wins.

Edit: What's the duration of your cam and displacement?

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

lol i'm running no more then a crazy setup to your own and no one in my area can help me. i've got well over 1,000 between chips, dyno time, replaced parts that were assumed wrong, etc. into this thing and the damn thing still doesn't run.

if that's the difference though then i really don't need one except that all the shops claim to tune dfi/fast systems and not stock ecm setups.

JMatlock88

that's bs... Give Ed Wright a call for a mail order chip. He doesnt mess up.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

after dealing with tpis and their mail order chips that ruined my 8,000 383 motor i won't do it. nothing out of state for me unless i can bring the car to them.

JMatlock88

Sure, you can bring the car to him-- it's in Tulsa, OK. I SERIOUSLY doubt you will encounter any problems with a Fastchip. TPIS SUCKS! You can park it at my place if you need me to babysit it overnight. I am located about 1 hour away.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

hmm...bit of a drive but i might be willing to consider it if he would guarantee that i don't have to pay him a dime if he can't get it right. i should get ahold of him.

JMatlock88

I wouldn't approach it that way for lack of tact. I'd simply let him know what a big trip this will be and comfirm with him that he stands behind his work. I swear you will be happy. Mine ran like a terd at 150rwhp before I took it to him. He had it nailed by noon.

JMatlock88

Oh, Ed Wright made the comment that I had the cleanest and most powerful TPI-generation car that he had ever had on his dyno. I'm looking forward to seeing your car and resigning the title! :lala:

IROCZZ3

You certainly don't need an aftermarket computer even though I'm using one myself. If they say you need DFI that's BS.

I'm using the Holley C950 setup because of it's bang for the buck. I also got one because I just don't have the time to fiddle with chips. I'm always gone and I'd rather be driving my car, but at the same time I didn't feel like paying for a FAST unit.

I picked mine up with a harness for $825 shipped. Plus later down the road I have the option to upgrade to the Pro version. It still comes nowhere near the $2000 price tag of the FAST system.

The Accel and FAST systems are a bit better because it has neat extra features for extra $$, but I didn't need them. And that's pretty much what you need to ask yourself.

JMatlock88

Also remember that you can use the moates equipment to add a lot of versatility to your stock EFI setup if you choose. The Ed Wright program that you purchase can be easily integrated with the said equipment.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

yeah i have all the little moates gadgets including the little lcd switcher for the multiple programs.....just can't get the actual chip to work.



and what i meant about not having to pay a dime was just a statement.......it's just everyone is ready to take your money but yet so far and few are willing to work. i have no problem paying for something that's worth it wether it's a chip, computer or otherwise but i want it to serve a purpose and if the stock ecm can be made to work then damn it i want to use it. if possible that is...

88TPI406GTA

Well...the car I just bought today (91 Camaro) has a DFI 6...and once I get a cable, I will review and give out another opinion. I already have burnt my own chips and the DFI 6 can be had for around $600-700 used...

Yet another learning experience...

Neil

Kandied, I agree with how you are approaching the tuning issue. Don't do the chip by mail order, have your car in their shop on a dyno with a wide band O2 hooked up so they can nail the tuning. I, myself am thinking of the FAST system with a wide band O2 so that I can make "live" parameter changes whenever I add nitrous and the almighty blower down the road.
As for Ed Wright's chips, I have seen one of his mail order chips and it wasn't that different from the stock ARAP bin. I am not minimizing his knowledge or ability to tune a vehicle, but I am actually backing him in that there is no way for sure to perfectly tune a modified vehicle over the phone the first time (better to be safe than sorry). It takes many attempts, been there done that!

Is this your new motor that's running rich at start up? I'd deal with that quickly.....don't want to prevent the rings from seating in! my.02 cents.

F.Y.I. Between the custom proms, Diacom scanning software, chip burning software and hardware...I have spent approx. $800.

Neil

Regarding Grumpy's comments
Kandied, IMO.........I agree in that by learning the stock ecm it will help you with DFI, however, at what cost? I wish I would have sucked it up and went DFI initially and learned that way. This way with DFI, down the road additional money could be spent on switching from bank to bank over to sequential injection (stock ecm is batch fire).......instead of scrapping all your stock ecm programming harware/software and scanner and re-investing in DFI.

88TPI406GTA

The funny thing is...after reading the EMIC manual and talking with Accel DFI tech...I am considering swapping back to a stock SD setup and selling my DFI 6 and Accel 300+ ignition setup...

Why?

Because the car has basically a stock TPI 350 and I will be driving it year-round. The stock SD ECM (and corresponding bin) will be a better deal for my use.

If it had more HP, I would consider keeping it...it appears to be fairly simple...but not a lot simpler than learning the stock setup. I will be attempting to tune this weekend a bit...and will post more results.

Fred91GTA

What about emissions equipment? Am I right in assuming that DFI will not control basic emissions equipment functions such as EGR and charcoal anister purge? Is there any way to run DFI and keep this emissions equipment?

Grumpy

Tuning is tuning.

Other then in some real healthy engines, where you NEED SEFI, or P+H injector drivers, there's nothing to be gaine with an aftermarket other then simplicity, or eye candy.

They delete all the frills so you have an ecm that JUST does enough to get the job done.

The falisy with the WB is you still have to figure out what AFR the engine actually likes, and a stand alone WB will do that just fine.

Once you learn the ropes, you can command any system. Take notes read up on the subject matter, and dive in.

BTW, there's no aftermarket board that I've seen the comes even close to the DIY Prom board here. While you MIGHT find someone to lend a hand with an aftermarket, there's literary dozens of guys here running any one of the popular stock ecms.

And you'll note the newer aftermarkets are getting alot more like the oems to get the nice street manners.

a383z

iTrader: (2)

I highly suggest DFI my car went from a gas spitting monster to purring like a kitten with out a dyno and it ran way better. the guy who did mine is called jims performance and I have seen some other stuff hes done and its awesome. I am taken my car back to him for the 2 bar map for the charger and the NOS hookups. If you do go DFI you wont be disappointed and the sky is the limit for further upgrades. Do you really think I could run charger and NOS on a 383 with a stock pcm.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

yeah however i don't know if you would want to. if i was forced induction i'd probably consider it but i don't see the need to spend that much more when someone out there can do it with what i have.

a383z

iTrader: (2)

But when I was NA the DFI gave me more HP from a so called chipped that was made for my application. Just saying if you go DFI, you can get a base model program to get your car running. Get it how you want to run and then start playing. I can load up a program if I want to take a long trip and get decent gas mileage, get to my location and then load a program that gives me maximum HP and who cares about gas mileage. You dont have to have any extended amounts of down time if you decide to make any more modifications in the future.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

oh i completely understand where you're coming from don't get me wrong but i can do the same thing with the stock computer. i can change data on the fly, have different programs for the same thing at the touch of a dial (up to 16 thanks to craig moates) as well as just about everything else you can do with DFI at a fraction of what it costs. however their are a few advantages with the DFI but nothing that i'm aware of that i need for a N/A motor.

while i'm saying that DFI aparently is a great way to go it seems as if it isn't completely necessary. unfortunately for me the shops in my area only know how to work with DFI and not the stock setup even though you can do the same thing. i just can't see spending that much money for something that i can already do so that's why i'm trying to get to the bottom of it.