customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Little background. Car is an 87 formula 350 but is heavily modified. It now sports a 521 BBF, C6 3 speed trans, 3000 stall non lockup converter and ford 8.8 rear with 3.55 gears. This car also had a summit racing universal 2 core aluminum radiator 19x31", dual fans with shroud from a 2005 charger high flow water pump and a large open water restrictor instead of a thermostat. The trans cooler is massive from a super duty truck and measures 28"x17" roughly and is
Massive. I'm also running a remote oil filter and oil Cooler that is about 30rows so to say the least I'm not worried about cooling.

This is the second summer I'm driving it since its been completed (winter
Mods was the oil cooler and temp gauge. But I've now Noticed a few things that weren't happening before. Took it to a car show last week (farthest ive been with it at 20miles highway) and my trans temps got to 220*F which normally never get higher than 140. Engine temps are in the 190-210 range which is also a bit high, and my oil temps are getting to 220 as well. With all these
Coolers I can't believe its running that hot. I'm running a water mix with royal purple ice mix and I'm still using the stock firebird air dam.

My question is that all my stuff seems to be above what is needed to cool this beast yet it still runs hot. The cooling system has no air, rad hoses are not collapsing (stainless tubing) and my fans are def working well. My engine temps aren't that bad but the trans and oil are not making me happy. I can only assume that I'm not getting enough airflow at 55mph on the highway to the coolers and rad, around town the trans temps are usually about 200 but that's still high as the trans cooler is not run into the radiator and has its own seperate cooler. So I ask is there a better design air dam I can use or fabricate something
To force air into the rad and stuff at highway speeds? I know my 3000 stall non lockup isn't helping but this has never Occurred before just recently. My cruising speeds are 2700-3000 rpms at 55-60mph.

Copperhead

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/body...r-spoiler.html - - I'll let you know how it turns out tomorrow, doing a 2-hr freeway drive to an autocross in 80-degree weather . . .

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

To start off are you using the first or second design air dam?

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/ca...ents/Air-Dams/

If you're using the 1 piece V shape one you might try going to the upgraded design.

Also another member a month ago or so made an air dam from a 4th gen air dam. He cut it down to size and mounted it with angle iron. The slope on it looked like it would pull in more air than the 2nd design.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

It's a 3 piece design that ultimately looks like a V. Large center and 2 end peices in front of the wheels.

Hard to see the pics of the stuff u posted.

Also not really that much info from the links posted on the benefits of cooling. I almost want like a large scoop to force air into the rad and coolers in front of it.

Dakota W.

What and why? Do your coolers have their own fans?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Why not? It's a massive motor that makes stupid power and is essentially bullet proof. Thing looks like an animal and sucks up the whole engine bay. Plus timing changes are a breeze! Haha

No coolers have no fans, they are essentially just stacked in front of the radiator with 3/4" space basically between themselves. I could throw a fan on the front but that will limit air flow into the coolers/rad at highway speeds.

Oh my rad has also been lowered about 1.5" and moved to the pass side about 3".

Basically I want to fab up something like a shovel at the base of the rad to force air right into the rad and coolers.

nhgator

This is made from conveyer belting and works like a scoop of sorts.

Dakota W.

I would've gone with a zz572 BBC, but that's just me. I'm a little worried that your rad fans are pulling air around the coolers for your trans and oil instead of through them, that's assuming that they're mounted off to the side and not in the middle of the rad.

tom86iroc

iTrader: (1)

my buddy had a bbc427 in his camaro he used a 3core rad you might not have enough fluid to cool all those coolers down fast enough

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Pics would prob help, goin to try to post some alittle later. The BBF 460 came with a trans and was for free. I put like 8 grand maybe and now it's a 521 which is still alot cheaper than the 572 without a trans. I had just installed and tuned a 383 HSR and a fully built 700r4 and the car was stolen and gutted, motor was 3 months old. So decided to get alittle crazy and be unique, car gets
Alot of attention now!

Trans cooler is essentially the size of the rad core, its frigin huge! It's like 17"x26" and there is no offsetting the cooler in front of the rad. So it basically covers full surface area of the rad. The oil cooler is mounted of to the driver side but is the largest oil cooler I could find with -10an fittings. Cooling 101 suggests not mounting the cooler directly on the rad as you don't want the radiator heating the coolers up which should run cooler than the rad at all times. That 3/4" is optimal for allowing air to still be drawn through without being to close. Even if that's too far and doesn't allow the air to be pulled through the trans cooler by the rad fans then that's fine. As low rpms or speed isn't really the problem. High speed is the problem it seems and that means that I'm not getting enough air through the rad and coolers at 55mph. Which can only mean the air dam isn't working or isn't efficient enough.

Which is where I'm at now. Just looking for ideas.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Thought that too but the rad cooled the motor last season enough. Also the engine temps weren't horrible 190-210 isn't tst bad for such a large motor. The trans is the biggest issue as its getting the hottest.

Honestly a better air dam or more air through the coolers/rad would help, larger rad would help if its slightly undersized and then an overdrive trans with lockup would lower trans temps dramatically and lower highway rpms solving the issues as well lol. Just trying the cheapest of those versions first.

tom86iroc

iTrader: (1)

what kind of fans are they? and how much CFM are they pulling?

Dakota W.

Is your air dam installed?

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

you have a lot of coolers stacked in front of the radiator. which is the first cooler in front. if the radiator is the last one ( prolly is ) then it is going to get the hottest. pics would be great. with all the coolers stacked there is going to be a lot of heat build up in there.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

OEM for the new 2005 dodge chargers with a 6.0L hemi. Have no idea on the CFM but they flow a good bit of air, prob more than the stock 5.7 TPI fans. They are a unit, dual Fans with integrated shroud.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Yes, that was stated in the original post. Stock air damn, 3 piece and looks like a V.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Oil cooler is closest to the front bumper, them trans cooler, then rad. What's weird is that the oil cooler is warmer than the engine temp or rad, and the trans cooler in the middle gets the hottest. I think the issue is the cruising rpm, and the trans stall. But I would have thought the size of the
Cooler would have helped alot.

Dakota W.

I would try a bigger air dam.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Are there any available or is this something ill have to fab?

redneckjoe

try some different water restricter sizes. i had to do some experimenting til i found what works best.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

The revised air dam puts a straight piece under the radiator. You still get side pieces that hook into it. It is suppose to allow better flow because it also is longer than the v design ones I have seen. I can get a picture if you want one. You can buy then around $65 or so.


Posted from Thirdgen.org App for Android

Keoman

iTrader: (3)

I still think this works the best.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/cool...n-air-dam.html

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

I have a milodon kit but haven't opened it. I've used a stock sized tstat I gutted for a 76 thunderbird which is a smaller 7/8" hole size that's what I ran last year. This year I put in a gutted high flow unit with a larger 1 1/8" hole. Either way my engine temps aren't the real issue.

More of how I can get more air forced into the rad at highway speeds. Looking for pics on fabbed air dams.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

I've seen them new for like 60-80$ on eBay. Will have to see if I can't make something for free an see if it works as well. Will
Most likely be metal and weight more but if I know it helps ill prob purchase the 4th gen version.

I wonder how much of an agle forward actually helps.

Dakota W.

I pulled the 2 corners of my air dam forward on my camaro to form more of a scoop, and didn't notice any difference. I've got a 3core aluminum rad and nothing else.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

1st design type of a third gen air dam. (no angle to it and not flat under the radiator. Designs pushes air to sides move than up into the radiator opening):



2nd design type of third gen air dam. (first pictures isn't exactly the same, but basically shows you the design is flat and the angle):



Full Kit (angled, flat, and additional deflects to go under the splash guards to push air around the car):


Modified 4th gen design on a third gen (flat and even more of an angle than the 2nd revised design for 3rd gens):


You could try the local junk yards. I would imagine it shouldn't cost over $20-$25 to pull one yourself.

In either case if you have the V Type going to revised design or 4th gen modified one should show an improvement.

Keoman

iTrader: (3)

Honestly I would have used either, but finding a second gen air dam from a salvageable thirdgen F body around here is like finding gold. I looked for a good while.
Wrecked 4th gens are in great abundance. Cost me $5 and I had the hardware at home. Maybe $7 in angle iron from home depot or lowes if you don't already have it.

I wouldn't make it out of metal, that sounds like a terrible idea. Depending on the material used, could do serious damage to the rad support if it contacted the ground. Either way it will distort and require you to straighten it every time it hits.

The angle may not do anything for airflow, but it increases ground clearance a bit and also sets the plastic at an angle so when you do hit, it doesn't crumple. It merely flexes, reducing the change for breakage or unwanted removal.
If it does break off, $5 for a new one is right up my alley.

I have a completely stock L98 for the time being but it does wonders. In 100* weather w/ AC on at 65MPH it still bounces off the thermostat. I have yet to make the fans engage at cruising speed.

EDIT I should mention I have a 3core alum radiator.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Well it looks like I prob have the Gen 1 air dam. Mines 2 peices and bascically looks like a arrow.

Here are some pics of how I have it, remeber the rad has been lowered 1.5" roughly so I had to cut up the stock air damn to fit. Hard to see in the pics but The cooler in front (smaller is the oil cooler) with -10AN lines) the large cooler you see right behind it is my trans cooler (no joke its frigin huge and covers the surface of my whole rad) then behind that you can see my radiator. I have about 1" of clearance from the trans cooler to the rad surface and about 1/2-3/4" between the oil cooler and trans cooler. The air dam is poop and bascically is bent backwards and doesn't force any air up to the rad and coolers.

Looks like I'll be fabbing up something to force more air in at highway speeds lol

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

WEll guys i just wanted to let you know that I spent like 4 hours on sunday making a new and improved air dam. Cost was like 20$, 36" piece of 90* zinc coated steel from Homedepot and a 18x24" piece of .090" lexan. Cut the steel to 33" and moved it all the way to the front of the coolers (was way behind under the radiator) so it should get air right into the coolers for better cooler and thus get into the radiator. Hand bent the steel at more of a forward angle (PITA) to keep it straight and not wavy. Steel is bolted to oil cooler brackets and some aluminum braces that all attach to the rad support via screws. Lexan is screwed to the steel and forms a scoop in a way with side pieces for support and air funneling. all together is slightly shorter (alittle more ground clearance) than the stock setup and its pretty sturdy.

you might ask why lexan and if that catches anything your going to rip it off and your rad support. My answer is, couldnt find a strong enough rubber/plastic to make it out of, and when lexan takes it a hit it flexes and if it flexes too much it just breaks and shatters. So if it does take a hit it will break and then I can just replace one of the pieces which takes 15-30 min to make. Hopefully it shatters and breaks apart without ripping the mount off the support.

I hope it works! not sure if i'll be taking it out this week, depends on the weather but if I do it will be tues or friday.

gona put a thread in the fabrication forum with more pics so check it out.

Copperhead

Made this up, works awesome. Should be somewhat efficient as a splitter as well, but impossible to test without a wind tunnel. Dead stable at 150 mph, freeway coolant temps 180 degrees max at that speed in 80 degree weather.

Copperhead

Aluminum extensions are mockups only for now.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Looks factory, how did u make it? And how do u kno its stable at 150mph lol?

Copperhead

I meant that the car is stable, with the factory bendy plastic airdam you could feel it get a little loose at speed. I have no idea how the airdam was doing. I might throw a GoPro under there for a run, might be interesting.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

what did you fab that with?

Copperhead

You'd never believe it, but it's a factor spoiler off an 80's Chevette. Braced from behind, aluminum filler panel to the bottom of the rad support, hung off turnbuckles, extended tips out of sheet aluminum. It's about 4" off the road, adjustable +/- an inch or so. It will slide up if you scrape something, but not back if you hit something, I'll just hafta be real careful. My buddy's Z06 is 3" off the ground and he gets by, driving carefully.

Finished product:

redneckjoe

there was a guy on here a while back that made a metal air dam similar to your lexan design. IIRC, the guy attached it with some piano hinge and some heavy springs, so it could move if it hit something.

Dakota W.

You put chevette parts on a good car? You're so going to hell when you die

Copperhead

No way, those are awesome!

Well, they have awesome spoilers anyways . . .

Ok, not really awesome atall until you put its parts on a car that's awesome

The Project

iTrader: (6)

Picked one up for $10.00. installing tomorrow.