racing geek

iTrader: (5)

My car originally came with AC but it no longer works. I have been asking around and it seems that the only way to make it work again is to update it to the new R13? stuff which I was told would be a bunch of money. In the two years I've owned my car, I have never needed it and I don't really mind not having it. With that said, I would like to remove it to save some weight and clean up the looks of the engine bay.

A local junkyard has a Firebird with a non-AC heater box. I plan on getting it either tomorrow or in the next couple of days. My question is, what else should I grab other then the box itself? I did a quick search and found that my motor wouldn't work in the new box so I have to grab that as well. Are there any other hoses or electrical connectors I should grab while I'm there? How about the interior controls... Even though they are from a Firebird would they still work and look right in my car? Would my stock heater controls work just fine (other then the AC settings)? Are there any parts in the dash that I would also have to grab? If I find that the motor in this unit doesn't work, how much would a new one cost?

I was also wondering about the pulley. Would an AC delete pulley really be needed? Couldn't I just get a shorter belt and remove the compressor and bracket completely? I just don't see the point in spending something like $40 for a part that just sits there taking up space and spining. Does the delete pulley really serve a useful purpose?

That is all for now. I appreciate any quick answers as I want to get it soon before it is gone. I just don't want to go back to get parts I forgot to grab the first time and risk paying extra because I could have had it as part of the package deal.

Thanks,
Mike

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

Since there are no responses, I guess I'll be going later or hoping I grab everything needed... probably going later.

After some more searching on TGO, I have found that I won't need the AC delete pulley. Apparently the V-belt cars can just remove the entire compressor/pulley and brackets and just use a shorter belt. That's good to know.

gregsz-28

iTrader: (1)

If you plan on taking anything from under the dash, plan on finding a whole dash, as A/C cars had more vents, but the dash from the 'bird obviously won't work. To make the controls work from a non A/C car, you would have to change out everything under the dash. If you just get the box, motor, and everything attached to it, everything will still work fine, even your controls, except the A/C settings, as you mentioned. You can even use the stock wiring going to the box, and reuse the resistors from your A/C.
A new motor at Autozone is $25, which is how much junkyards usually want for them anyways.
As far as belts, I know that if you have v-belts, all you have to do is remove the belt for the A/C. I don't know about serpentine belts though.

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

They said they want $50 for everything. I never thought of asking how much it would be without the motor.

I would like to complete the look of having no AC by swapping the dash and controls, but I don't think it would really be worth the effort. If I use the heater after the swap will the hot air still blow out of all the vents? What exactly is "everything attached to it?" About the wires... I read that there are two different kinds of plugs for the motor. Is this true or was I reading about someone trying to swap in an S10 unit?

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how much weight will be saved? I was told a while ago that it would be around 30 pounds. Does that seem accurate?

y84pauloflondon

I agree with gregsz28. To take apart the dash is a pain in the A**, I did last year to replace my heater core, and you risk the chance of braking old plastic....I don't get it, you want to spend money on a used box, fan, and controls, but not on a pully!?!?! Remove your AC, keep your controls, box, and fan if it still works. And Gregs right, if you got V-belts just remove the AC belt. If serpentine, try this, take a piece of string, run it through the pullys, mark it when they meet and then measure the length of string. Now that Should give you an idea of length of belt needed....Good Luck!

y84pauloflondon

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how much weight will be saved? I was told a while ago that it would be around 30 pounds. Does that seem accurate?[/quote]

That sounds a little high for the compresser and bottle, but maybe.

gregsz-28

iTrader: (1)

Yes, air will still come out all the vents. Everything attached to it means cooling tube, mount for that tube, and the motor. You don't need to take the wires or resistors. All the original connectors should still work.
IDK how much weight will be saved, but I'd like to think it is more than 30 lbs. I've taken so much weight off the front of my car that it almost looks lifted.

gregsz-28

iTrader: (1)

I didn't mean that it was too difficult to take apart the dash, it really isn't. It might take an afternoon to complete a swap from an A/C dash to a non-A/C dash.

BTW, you don't need to remove the dash to replace the heater core.

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

It's the compressor (and its brackets), bottle, condenser, all the hoses and the huge chunk of the heater box that would be gone. I've also read that the motor is smaller in non-AC cars so that will probably save some weight as well.


You wouldn't happen to have a picture of "everything" that you could post, would you? Where are the resistors located? If they are attached to the heater box I'll probably just take them anyway as spares. Same with the wiring harness and connectors and such. When I bring it to the main office, I'll just leave that stuff behind if the guy wants to charge me more.


I think he was saying he had to take apart the dash because some of the inner plastic structure broke during his heater core replacement. I could be wrong though...

Mike

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

Are you referring to my stock box that has the huge lump in it where all the AC hoses enter? That lump area is why I want the non-AC heater box. It will clean up the engine bay way more then if I just disconnect everything. I'm not getting all new parts because that isn't really possible on a budget and the used box in the junkyard doesn't really have any rust on it anywhere. I also don't want to spend money on a pulley because that is money I could spend somewhere else on my car. Tell me, would you pay for something you don't need? Yeah... I don't need to do this swap, but you get my point right?

gregsz-28

iTrader: (1)

Yes I do happen to have a pic of 'everything'. The resistors are circled in red.

y84pauloflondon

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregsz-28
I didn't mean that it was too difficult to take apart the dash, it really isn't. It might take an afternoon to complete a swap from an A/C dash to a non-A/C dash.

I think he was saying he had to take apart the dash because some of the inner plastic structure broke during his heater core replacement. I could be wrong though...

Mike

No, I didn't take apart the whole dash to change the heater core, although the HAYNES Repair book I bought 8 years ago did say to do that. But the last owner did change the core and did brake some plastic, and lost 2 screws. I'm just saying doing the core swapped out, is just a pain IF you don't needed to that work. And OLD plastic can brake easy. Reading the comments before,.....I wasn't trying to p*** off anyone or to insalt you, but yeah I got your point, it would clean up the look under the hood and complete the look inside aswell.....Paul

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

Trust me, it takes a lot more then that to **** me off or insult me. No worry's.

I plan on going tomorrow afternoon to get the box and the other stuff. Maybe I'll find some more useful parts too! There are a couple pretty decent leather firebird steering wheels in there, I just don't have the special puller tool.

y84pauloflondon

My bad, i should have given MORE thought when i first read your post. I really should take a min after work to relax before I jump online, lol.

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

I got the heater box and motor and resistors and all that other stuff. I must have talked to a different guy yesterday when I bought it because that guy said $30 (with or without the motor) instead of the $50 quote I got over the phone. Maybe he gave me a deal since I'm just a kid. Anyway, it seems to be in pretty good shape. There are just a few areas where pin size surface rust is forming (meaning virtually rust free), but there are several dents. They aren't big, but it looks like someone took a screw driver and stabbed it a couple times. There is also a slightly wavy spot near a bend. It really isn't as bad as it probably sounds... I'm just picky. I would post pictures but my parents have the camera and they are out of town. Oh well...

I hope the motor works. gregsz-28... I am sorry to say that YOU ARE WRONG. Autozone does not sell a non-AC blower motor for $25... they sell it for $19.99! HA!
non-AC blower motor
blower motor resistor
blower motor wheel/fan

I did find some other parts too. I'll be going back in about 8 hours to get the rest of the stuff. I found some LS1 front calipers, a leather shift ****, a Firebird map pouch, a few dash badges, an aluminum driveshaft, some swaybars, and a perfect condition black berger panel from an 02 SS Camaro (for a friend). I hope I get a package deal! lol

Mike

gregsz-28

iTrader: (1)

How do the firebird map pockets come off the dash? There is one in a local JY I saw, but didn't take because I didn't want to damage it taking it off.

HCR13

iTrader: (5)

you just have to pop off the picket, its just pushed in with tabs, good luck taking it out...

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

The first time I just tried pulling with my fingers and I ended up bending the metal backing in it so it would never lay perfectly flat again. Since then, I slide a putty knife under it near the tabs and just pull it away from the dash. I'll try and send you a private message with a pic showing the tabs.

---------------------------------
I ended up getting everything except the driveshaft. Turns out that the top side (facing the bottom of the car) had a dent in it. Unfortunately I didn't notice this until I already had it out. I was also able to get the calipers for next to nothing so I'm thinking about going back to get the rear calipers for a future brake upgrade.

Mike

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

Everything is out except the heater box. I ran out of time so hopefully that will be swapped this weekend.

Now for some more questions... Does anyone know where I can get a new gasket for the non-AC heater for mounting it to the firewall. The one from the jy car still looks good but I want to be certain it will not leak. After pulling the compressor, I've noticed that I have a giant bracket sticking near the end of re valve cover onthe drivers side. The problem is that it is also used to hold the power steering pump in place. Based on some diagrams in my shop manual, it looks like I just need the power steering pump brackets from a V-belt V8 cay that came from the factory without AC. Can anyone confirm this? Could I get this bracket from any vehicle that meets the above criteria that is an 82-87 or are re early years a little different like they are for a lot of other things?

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

Does the car you're removing the delete box from still have the brackets? That set up is a mess and I haven't seen a delete set up either. It is a basic SBC though, so there may be other vehicles that might have brackets that would work as well.

I recommend pulling the heater box and controls all in one unit. It's some effort, but not that bad really. Get the vents from both sides and the center control part under the steering wheel too.

If a gasket isn't available you could use some RTV. I know the ones I've seen are a PITA to free from the firewall.

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

The car I got my box from was a V6 so I don't think the Bracket would be the same.

What part under the steering wheel? I plan on leaving the dash and controls alone until I find good pieces in the junkyard or at a swap meet.

I hate RTV... it's just a big mess.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

No a V6 won't be the same.

A/C delete cars usually have vents on the sides under the dash with cable controls under the steering wheel. They would be nice to have since the A/C is gone.

RTV would be the last resort. Mentioned it in case you couldn't find anything else. the ones that I've seen do have some kind of sealant on them though.

gregsz-28

iTrader: (1)

I think it would be fine to use the gasket that is already on it. Maybe you could go to a hardware store and get some weatherstripping that has adhesive on one side. But really there is no reason to worry about the 2% of your air that might escape, so the condition of that gasket doesn't seem too important.
For the compressor brackets, can you just grind the mounts for it off of the PS brackets?
I just left the parts of the compressor brackets that are part of the PS brackets. They do look bad, but I don't even plan to keep power steering.

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

I really don't want to cut anything just in case I would for some reason want to put the AC back on the car sometime in the future. I'll take a picture of it later today.

I'm not worried about air getting out, I'm more worried about air getting in.

gregsz-28

iTrader: (1)

Ok, that makes more sense. I agree with not using RTV, I did that, and now I have lots of RTV and gasket pieces stuck to my firewall after I had to remove the box once. At least it isn't visible with the box installed. I don't know of any reproduction gaskets available though.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

If you can't find a bracket right away, grab a second AC bracket and modify that. I had to modify mine for the headers I used anyways. Otherwise if you have the money I'm sure there's something aftermarket that would work as well.

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

I'll just ask around for now. I would think I can get one... I hope. If not I probably will grab an extra from a junkyard car.

I don't have much if any money until I sell some of my parts I have laying around. I haven't had a good day today... my college tuition bill just came in the mail, I got a flat on the way to a show so I had to roll in with a spare and the flat tire was almost ripped/cut off the wheel by the time I could stop and change it, I'm low on sleep, I have to work third shift tonight, and I'll miss my race on Sunday. Buying an aftermarket brace will not be happening anytime soon. Maybe I'll get a raise tonight... that would make my day better. Who am I kidding... Ugghhhh life stinks! LOL