327_TPI_77_Maro

iTrader: (8)

Hi guys, I am reinstalling AC on a car that is an AC car but had the lines removed a while ago. The easiest thing for me to do is get one of those all in one R134a kits that comes with a gauge and cans of refrigerant that include oil/stop leak/ etc. I have heard stories that if I just do this R134a conversion without replacing some of the AC system parts that I will not have AC for very long. I am trying to keep this project low budget. I don't expect it to be perfect and maintainence free for 10 years. Who has refilled an R12 system with R134a and not replaced any of the AC parts and had it work for at least several years without any problems? Thanks! It is a 1983 system I am working on btw.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

My experience with 134 was disasterous. Long story short, two compressors went down and more importantly to me, the cooling properties were inadequate--the work was done by a pro whose work I respect. I went back to 12. I'm a happy boy now.

JamesC

327_TPI_77_Maro

iTrader: (8)

The problem with 12 is that it is not inexpensive anymore. I don't want to spend a ton of money on this thing.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

I understand. Factor in two compressors with 134 and suddenly the effort isn't cheap. That said, you may have better luck than I did. Go for it, especially if you're doing the work yourself.

JamesC

327_TPI_77_Maro

iTrader: (8)

Lol I have several of these compressors, they are like $10 each from the junkyard around here. I wouldn't own cars like these if I didn't do all of the work myself. Sounds like I might be better off buying R12 on Ebay. With my luck I would buy some really old looking cans and they wouldn't have any charge left in them once I got them.

LeoP

You should replace the accumulator/reciever, the dessicant isn't designed for r134a and install 8 ounces of the correct PAG oil, the system requirements have been changed. If you decide to use the all in 1 kit, you may have problems.

coolram62

iTrader: (2)

Also flush the system before you add any oil or refrigerant.This will clean out any remaining mineral oil.PAG and mineral oil are not compatible and you want the system as clean as possible going to 134A.A R12 designed system won't work as effectively with 134A but it will work well if you prepare it properly.There is an alternative to 134A that doesn't require as much work.It's called Freeze12.

327_TPI_77_Maro

iTrader: (8)

Thanks guys for the responses, this is very helpful info as I have done tons of automotive work but not on AC systems. Usually I am ripping them off, not putting them back on! However once I tackle this AC system I will also equip my 77 Camaro with AC. In my old age (22!) I am getting too dependent on creature comforts. Where can I get Freeze12? Do I need to have someone with a license (ie a garage) buy it? My brother works for a mom and pop type garage/repair facility that is licensed, if I had to go that route. What will it cost for me to fill a completely empty F body AC system with Freeze 12? Do I still need to replace the accumulator/receiver? How can I "flush" the AC system myself, do I need any special equipment? The system on the car has had the main pressure lines disconnected for years open to the atmosphere. Will this require replacing anything additionally due to moisture?

coolram62

iTrader: (2)

Freeze12 is very similar to R12.But it's actually a mix.Go to http://www.freeze12.com for more info.It's been awhile since I ordered and it was from a supplier in FL( http://www.sherco-auto.com/fr4012.htm ).They sell everything you need and are nice people to deal with.I do have my EPA HVAC mobile license but it wan't neccessary to purchase Freeze12 4yrs ago(though with the EPA they change to suite the higher ups).I will say it's a good idea to replace the receiver/dryer whenever you open a system(or if it's been open to the atmosphere for any amount of time).Hope this helps.

idoxlr8faster

I SWAPPED MY 91 GMC PICKUP TO 134A FROM R12 USING AN ALL IN ONE KIT. THE SYSTEM WAS COMPLETELY DRY WHEN I BOUGHT THE TRUCK, AFTER CONVERTING IT I DROVE IT FOR THREE YEARS, IT ALWAYS BLEW MORE THAN ADEQUITLEY COLD AND I NEVER HAD TO REFILL IT, NOR DID I HAVE ANY FAILURES. IT STILL BLEW COLD WHEN I AUCTIONED IT OFF THIS PAST FALL.

Phatfiddler

iTrader: (8)

To get R12 you MUST have a license. The licencse covers issues like disposel, proper equipment etc etc. You can actually take the test online, and print out your "license card" for your wallet. You receive a registration number on the license that you use to verify that you passed. We got our R12 on eBay, and even they required that we have a license, checking teh registration number and all.

Don 79 TA

where do you find the information online to do the R12 tests?
i tried searching, didn't get anything

Phatfiddler

iTrader: (8)

In order to be able to buy and handle the refrigerant, you must be a certified 608 technician. First, take the technician test online, its an open book test. The fee is $25. Next you can take your refrigerant test, which is free, and also open-book. What is open-book testing you ask? This means you can actually have the manual as reference during test taking, but we all know that you'd used it anyways, since the test IS online, so whos gonna know?

Mainstream Engineering Corporation - EPA Certification

What type of Certification do I need to purchase refrigerants?
If you get a 608 certification (Type I, Type II, Type II, or Universal), you can by any refrigerant sold in an HVAC/R store in containers of 20 pounds or more. If you get 609 certification you can buy any refrigerant sold in an automotive supply house in any size container, however these stores typically only sell R-12, R-134a and replacement blends for R-12.

What does an exam look like?
Here is an sample question from the 609 exam:

The technician must do the following when retrofitting a Motor Vehicle A/C system with a new refrigerant:
A) Use only DOE approved refrigerants
B) Change only the low side service connection
C) Relabel the system to indicate the new refrigerant being used in the system
D) None of the above

Is the use of R-12 (also called CFC-12) banned?
No. The production or importation of CFC-12 in the USA is banned because according to the EPA it depletes the Ozone layer. However, use of CFC-12 is not banned. Even though production of CFC-12 ended on December 31, 1995, use of CFC-12 is still permitted and both recycled R-12 and R-12 manufactured before the Production Ban is still readily available. You can continue to use the CFC-12 that is in your vehicle now, and your service technician can continue to put it in your vehicle, as long as supplies are available. CFC-12 used today is constantly being recovered and recycled, and CFC-12 produced in 1994 and 1995 is being placed into inventory, so that there is still refrigerant available.

Don 79 TA

thanks for the info

rideon1200

Why dont you just go to an appliance repair shop and ask them to install 3 cans of HOT SHOT. You will not find it at an automotive store because it is a drop in replacement for R12, no changing oil no replacing anything. It sell for 10.00 a can and takes 5 min. to put in. The automotive shops want to charge 800.00 for a conversion. Hot Shot is used mostly for old refridgerators that use R12. R134 has a diffrent oil makeup, so if you put in in a 12 system it might work, but it will dry out the seals and the oils can damage compressor. If you buy R12 on E Bay and are not licsensed you are breaking the law. Up to 10,000 fine for transporting or having in possesion.