Red88GTA

This was new info to me, but after being burned somewhat on this I felt everyone needed to know.

I am rebuilding the A/C in my GTA. Trying to use all AC/Delco parts for the peace of mind. I bought a hose assembly, Compressor, and accumulator/drier. (Orifice will be a non AC/Delco - Variable Orifice). Anyhow, when I received the Drier from the local Advance Auto, I opened the AC/DELCO box and noticed right off that the drier didn't look "factory" wrong shape and poor welding when put together. Looked on the bottom and the part number stamped on the drier was a Four Seasons/Murray/Factory Air (all made by the same company) drier and the number didn't match the GM number on the box. I started acuzing Advance Auto of swaping parts. They ordered another one.. Same story. So I told them to give my money back. If I wanted a cheap Four Seasons, I would save the $20 and buy it.

Finally, I went to gmpartsdirect and today I get another Four Seasons/... style accumulator in their AC/DElCO box. So basically, I gave GM $51 for a $30 accumulator that I couldv'e bought anywhere. Talk about a rip-off!! Well, I am now stuck with it because all the shipping money lost. Gmpartsdirect and Advance both said that AC/DELCO is getting parts from other companies and sticking their name on it.

Long story short. GM parts - AC/DELCO no longer stands for higher quality. It stands for a middleman who buys parts from cheaper companys and sells it to you for a markup. Please be careful buying AC/DELCO - GM parts. Now, the hose assembly and compressor did have the AC/DELCO part numbers so I only presume they made them. Thanks for your time.. Pat

Jed

Funny...last wekend at Autozone I discovered that AC Delco oil filters are absolutely identical to STP oil filters.

25THRSS

How'd you discover that?

91Z28-350

I just got all the A/C stuff for an R-134a conversion, still waiting on hoses though. My compressor was labeled Delphi. Delphi makes stuff for Delco. I got my stuff through Jason Cromer. FWIW, I only buy from Jason Cromer or the famous Dal. I've bought a few things from P&G (partszoneonline.com), but their prices don't include shipping, so they suck.

Red88GTA

91z

Have you looked at your accumulator yet?

My AC Compressor was Delphi. The Hose assembly had an actual Delco sticker, but the most visible part - the accumulator sucks..

Pat

91Z28-350

No, not yet. I'm going to wait for the hoses, and some o-rings, before I begin assembly. I have to pick up some PAG oil and the conversion kit for the fittings too.

Edit: my accumulator is AC Delco too. No stickers on it or anything, it came in an AC Delco box with the part number on it. It's brand new.

Guest

R-414a is the substitute for R-12 no need to swap out any other other then the oil in the compresser R-414a can not be used with PAG (polyalkaleneglycol) oil i work in a HVAC place and i sell it all the time to replace R-12 but if you want i can get you 30lbs of R-12 for $2,000 thats the about the retail cost of R-12 now

91Z28-350

Tell me more about R-414a. Is it cheaper than R-134a? I have these new parts, should I just use mineral oil in the compressor? Is R-414a a long term solution, meaning will it stay, or will a conversion be inevitable?

Guest

well i talked to some of the server guys that buy the stuff and they just put it in there car with out putting new oil in the compresser and it runs just fine. one guy told me that he has to put it in and your done never need to rechare it. unless you have a leck. the only problem is that you have to be certified to get it

Guest

i just talked to some more service guys (i'm at work) anf you just put it in and go. no need to chage the oil (i said that cuzi was reading it off the can) no need to chage anything

91Z28-350

Thanks for the info! It's good to come across an HVAC guy!

Do you know the price difference between r-134a and r-414a? I'm just curious because I was quoted $275 (locally) to recharge my freon system, and figured for that price and a couple hundred more I can get an r-134a system and fix my leaks.

Guest

well 30lbs (by far way to much for a car) is $105 for 134a and $400 for 25lbs of 414a BUT list to this... they sell R414a in 9.6oz cans for $15 and you only need about two cans for your looking at like like $30 for the 414a just what you need for a car. :-D

Red88GTA

91Z - I would stick with 134A since you are redoing all the parts including hoses. 1) 134 can be bought at Wal-Mart and everywhere else, 2) Using anything but 134 and 12 will void the warranty (though I don't know how they can tell).

I am going to flush my evaporator and condensor. Then put on the new hose assembly, variable orifice (better than the stock apparently), drier, compressor, and the green o'rings with the Nylog oil. I have been told that this setup will work well. And if I can make another suggestion PAG oil hates the old Mineral Oil if the two get together. Use Ester 100.. But that's just my .02 cents.

Guess you were able to get an actual ACDelco Drier. This factory air drier has a square top instead of the rounded top. You were lucky..:hail:

Pat

SSC

I agree with Red88. If your changing all the parts theres no need to worry about R134 leaking out. GM car's tend to leak out of the compresser so if its being changed I wouldent worry about it. If you really wanted to cool down swap a 4th gen condenser into your car, a used one will work fine. Now that ive got all the serpentine conversion stuff thats what Im doing. The last 134 conversion I did on a 3rdgen (not my own) only took 2 1/2 cans of 134 and a small can of oil 8 oz. That blew out 40* air on a 89* day even with the old r12 condenser. Much better and cheaper then R-12. Just remember to pull vaccum on your system and see if it hold for 15 minutes before charging.

Red88GTA

SSC

Haven't thought of this. Is a 4th gen Condenser a direct bolt in? How much fabrication?

Pat

91Z28-350

Thanks, that's what I'll go with, as soon as I get all my parts in.

Since I'm replacing all the parts, wouldn't I use PAG, or should I still use Ester 100?

Edit: Just read the tech article again, and it said to use PAG if mixing, ester if not.

Red88GTA

91Z -

That's the $100 question about which oil to use. I read around and they also say Ester is a better oil and since the system will be thoroughly flushed, why not. But anyhow, one of the A/C retrofit sites, or one of these threads, or when I was reading the GM policy, they said to use Ester 100. You might want to look around I can't remember. P

Red88GTA

Here is one site I found about the oil

Pat

http://www.delanet.com/~pparish/oil.htm

mystikkal_69

iTrader: (2)

where can we get the OEM round top accumulators? i've looked @ ackits.com accumulators for our cars. they look just like the stock one. i'll probably get one from them in the future when i redo my A/C. if anyone is in need of one,(and hates those square/pentagon shaped ones) get one from there and let us know if they look just like on their website. they are listed @ 34.51


ACKits.com

see...

breathment

so your saying the factory (REAL GM replacement) Dryer is round at the top?

mystikkal_69

iTrader: (2)

not really round, but roundish. the shape of the cylinder is what i'm referring to. the replacement ones from autozone etc... are shaped like a pentagon on the top section of the dryer. opposed to the stock on which is shaped like the pic i posted. roundish on the top section of the dryer.

breathment

so this would be one of the ones yall are talking about as being non GM? (sorry just kinda confused)

Danno

Depending on what you buy and for what year you may in fact get a substitute part as GM reduces inventory for older vehicles. One thing people don't always know is that many times parts under the AC/Delco logo are not always the same as dealer stocked parts under a GM part number. GM has tried to expand the AC/Delco name much the same a Ford with the Motorcraft line of parts. GMSPO may have actually stopped stocking the item under it's own number and simply furnished parts under Delco supplied by someone else. Also GM has responded to changing market issues-consumers not wanting to pay for quality. Parts guys refer to this as "doorstop items". Brake pads, shocks for example are things that people want cheap. GM offered these items under the Goodwrench logo when they were actually repacks of other manufacturers and not the same quality as OE. Unfortunately what you experienced is becoming more commonplace. One of the things I always liked was that GM traditionally had one of it's divisions supply almost everything in thier cars. Delco electronics(still the best), Harrison cooling components were quality parts. Many items you get under anybody's OE label in any industry are simply repacks of some other suppliers components. You just got lucky enough to recognize it.

mystikkal_69

iTrader: (2)

yes that is the evil dryer we speak of. the non-stock one.

breathment

here's a closer look.. this is what u will see under the hood on ANY new stock GM vehical...

mystikkal_69

iTrader: (2)

well i'll be damned.

Soulrev

Yeah and there's a reason why "delco" parts are harder to find now.. A lot of the smaller auto parts stores have stopped carrying them. Less headaches for the auto parts stores. Autozone is a **** shop so it doesn't count as a parts store ;P

breathment

im guesing the **** begins with an R right?

mystikkal_69

iTrader: (2)

hehe. AUTOZONE should be renamed RICEZONE. i'm guessing the old design found on our cars is the harrison design, while the new one is the delphi design.

Sonar_un

Anyone know about this? I think we should make a new post.

Red88GTA

Sonar

Guess we are both tired of the east Texas heat! I am at the same point with my rebuild and pulled the condenser yesterday in about 10 minutes. Figure it will help on the flushing and not make such a mess. (My GTA is not a daily driver)

It appears a 4th Gen Condenser would fit in there, just that the fittings are at the wrong spots requiring some fabrication of lines.. Maybe someone will have an idea on your thread you started.

According to the info on that Variable Orifice, they make it sound like the 134a conversion is going to be plenty cool.!? Pat

mystikkal_69

iTrader: (2)

take a look at what is now available to replace the fourseasons crap..... and @ your local autozone. the stuff is so new the barcode scan did not work(had to type the numbers in). they haven't been entered into the system over here.


this is the new stuff that replaces the the old factory air (four seasons) junk. the accumulator is the "old" design that came on our cars stock 10yrs ago. the compressor looks great. looks just the original one i had on there before i put the FS compressor. if you bought a four seasons you know what i mean. no ugly fourseasons deformed clutch. i will let you know how this stuff works out.

Compressor - Alma Compressor (repalces 57238)
Accumulator - Atco #7-5030 (replaces 33198)

CaysE

Just want to add something about refigerants (also in the HVAC business). I used HotShot (R414b) in my car, which will directly replace r12, r134a, AND r500. Its pressure is about the same (+3 or 4 psi) as r12, so you don't need to change any hoses, and the fittings are the same as well.

My A/C hadn't worked since I bought the car last year, so I finally pulled a vaccuum on the system earlier this week and miraculously it didn't have any leaks. Charged it up with HotShot and it runs great. Sorry I don't have any costs on this, I got the stuff for free as extra, open inventory. But look around for it if you still have an r12 system.

goodgoalie29

i recently came accross a similar situation. i walked into a UAP NAPA parts store to buy spark plugs for my car. not sure of the part number but, sure i wanted an ACDelco OEM part. i asked the clerk if there was a big difference in preformance between the OEM part and other after-market parts available. i could not believe his response! he actually told me that i might find "NGK" stamped on the ACDelco spark plug! i asked him what he ment, and he informed me that ACDelco is starting to use OTHER manufactures products and putting THEIR NAME on them!!! So, BEWARE. that ACDelco OEM part you think you are buying may not be the Genuine deal. Check the numbers, and the manufactures. you could be buying an After-market part possing as an OEM. By the way, NO NGK's on the plugs i bought. they are PURE ACDelco and work great!

Guest

the part number your talking about is AC-Delco Part number 41-101 witch is used Stock in the 5.3L (the new 325ci AKA new school 327 it is also used in other V-6 motors like the 3100 , 3800, even the 2200 ) GM also knows that they are NGK plugs. i wouldn't call this a scam. its just like GM owns Sabb but there parts don't say sabb on them, its just like GM using parts that are made in Mexico GM also in the past has used a Bosch ABS system not an AC-Delco so to me this is not a scam its just one company useing the design of someone else. just like the northstar motor from GM that shuts down 4 cly when you are at criuse to save on gas. they sold that design to mopar for use in the new HEMI all companys do it

meridius

I dont know if this helps but I know that GMs contract with Delphi is up so yes they may be using different companies forthier parts now, I know this is true on new cars being built and if you dont beleive e look at a cobalt up close once.