R12 on Ebay about $20/can average
07-31-2002, 12:12 PM
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R12 on Ebay about $20/can average
I hopped onto ebay yesterday just to see if peeps were selling R12 on there. Sure enough, it was there! Looks to be running about $20/can on average, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less. We're talking 12-14 oz cans. That's about 2-3x the price of R134a but R12 cools 2-3x better too. Sure....if you go to a shop they're gonna nail you $65+ per lb of it, but all you have to do is have the 609 certification card (you can take it online at www.asecert.org for $15 and you can bid on the auctions! Seems like a much better alternative than all these substitutes that we're unsure of their performance....and definitely beats 134a for our cars.
Just my $0.02
Just my $0.02
08-01-2002, 02:23 PM
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Car: 1986 Firebird
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There's also http://www.epatest.com for R12 certification!
08-01-2002, 11:19 PM
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Well...I bid on one of the auctions and won it 
$63 for 3 12 oz cans, so $21/can (that includes shipping)! I can almost see the ice cubes flying out of my dash vents now
$63 for 3 12 oz cans, so $21/can (that includes shipping)! I can almost see the ice cubes flying out of my dash vents now
08-03-2002, 09:57 PM
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Its funny that people still believe that R-12 is worth the money and that it works better. I am an A.C. expert and convert about 100 vehicles a year to 134. On average 134 puts out 5-10 degrees cooler air and the conversion typically costs less than one can of R-12. If you would like to waste your money, then go ahead and buy that HIGH dollar R-12, if you want to be sensible convert.
08-04-2002, 12:05 AM
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Car: 88 IROC convertible, 88 Sport Convertible---both RED
Engine: 350 TPI in the IROC, 305 TBI in the Sport
Transmission: 700R4 in both
Say, James, what would be the appropriate pressure readings on a Camaro with R-12 (still) and in 100 degree heat? High and low side....
My car doesn't blow very cool (just bought it month and a half ago) and wanted to get an idea of how low I might be...whether or not to convert or get a shot ot R-12.
TIA..
My car doesn't blow very cool (just bought it month and a half ago) and wanted to get an idea of how low I might be...whether or not to convert or get a shot ot R-12.
TIA..
08-04-2002, 12:40 AM
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Originally posted by jamesbern
Its funny that people still believe that R-12 is worth the money and that it works better. I am an A.C. expert and convert about 100 vehicles a year to 134. On average 134 puts out 5-10 degrees cooler air and the conversion typically costs less than one can of R-12. If you would like to waste your money, then go ahead and buy that HIGH dollar R-12, if you want to be sensible convert.
Its funny that people still believe that R-12 is worth the money and that it works better. I am an A.C. expert and convert about 100 vehicles a year to 134. On average 134 puts out 5-10 degrees cooler air and the conversion typically costs less than one can of R-12. If you would like to waste your money, then go ahead and buy that HIGH dollar R-12, if you want to be sensible convert.
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08-04-2002, 07:07 AM
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Originally posted by jamesbern
I am an A.C. expert... On average 134 puts out 5-10 degrees cooler air and the conversion typically costs less than one can of R-12.
I am an A.C. expert... On average 134 puts out 5-10 degrees cooler air and the conversion typically costs less than one can of R-12.
Pronunciation: 'ek-"sp&rt
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from expert, adjective
Date: 1535
: one with the special skill or knowledge representing mastery of a particular subject Puh-leeze
The physics don't back up your claim of 5-10 degrees cooler. Now I will believe that the old worn out, under-charged system that was brought in to you to be converted blew cooler after the conversion.
Definitely agree that R12 is expensive, but I stayed with it. I did a lot of research and talked to several AC shops. They all said the same thing. R12 cools better.
08-06-2002, 09:53 AM
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I'm going to disagree with you 500% James. Maybe a system you converted to R134A does blow cooler now than it did before you converted it, but why did you convert it in the first place? If it had a full charge of R12 and was working perfectly why would anyone in their right mind evacuate it and replace the refrigerant? R134A runs at a higher pressure than R12 does, and ANYONE will back up that statement. Higher pressure equals higher temperature at the condenser. On cars that already have a marginal cooling system (3rd gens) that is definitely not a good thing. Some vehicles can be converted to 134A without a problem. I did my old truck ('89 GMC full size) and it worked great in there simply because it has a huge radiator and condenser. I'm on my second 3rd gen now, and the first one I converted to 134A....you could watch the temp gauge rise the instant you turned the AC on and if you stopped or were going slow, it'd just keep creeping up and was just about impossible to get back down. And that was with both stock fans going full time, NEW radiator, and also a third auxillary fan in front of the condenser. With my current car, running R12, yes the temp will go up about 20-30 degrees (from 180-210-maybe 220) but no further and as soon as you start moving it comes right back down. Blows alot colder too.
08-06-2002, 02:26 PM
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i have to agree with 88Roc350TPI about the temp going WAY up when a\c on. 240* is a pretty high temp!! even on the freeway it takes a long while for it to get down to 180* compared to when its off.. But other then that...
08-06-2002, 07:38 PM
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Car: 88 IROC convertible, 88 Sport Convertible---both RED
Engine: 350 TPI in the IROC, 305 TBI in the Sport
Transmission: 700R4 in both
well....I'm sure of one thing...my air was NOT blowing cold, just kinda cool...that don't cut it when the temp hits 100*+... shop told me I needed a new compressor...they wanted 7 to 900 to replace/repair and do the 134 conversion....
went to autozone, picked a compressor for 99.99, accumulator for 29.00 and orifice tube for 1.99 plus an R134 retrokit.
put everything on today, got the system vacuumed and charged and R134 blows pretty damn cool to me....
all for under 200
and at least this way, i can pick up a $6 can of 134 and give it a shot if i need to without needing a 609 certification....
went to autozone, picked a compressor for 99.99, accumulator for 29.00 and orifice tube for 1.99 plus an R134 retrokit.
put everything on today, got the system vacuumed and charged and R134 blows pretty damn cool to me....
all for under 200
and at least this way, i can pick up a $6 can of 134 and give it a shot if i need to without needing a 609 certification....
08-07-2002, 01:59 PM
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James, I have been in the HVAC business for over 15 years and yes there is options. But there is NO substitute for R12. It does blow the coldest and is thicker which means less prone to leaks after time. I will agree with you on one note, and that is SAVE your money. Meaning do it once and do it right, go r12 and chances are it will be the last time you work on your a/c. Use the relacement garbage and risk the chance of having to waste your time and money to have it fixed over again and then not have as good a system as you had in the first place. Granted my experience is mostly with condensing units but it is still the same concept and uses the same freon's.
08-07-2002, 07:45 PM
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I agree that R-12 is the best refrigerant, but that doesn't change the fact that half the time when converted to 134 the system cools better. I can't explain it! I have also been on the other side of this argument until I was proved wrong, more than once, by people who had done more conversions. Basically you can spend $40 on one can of 12 and have it leak out or you can spend $30 and convert and not worry about losing high dollar R-12. I don't think that there is that much of a tradeoff personally because unless you are very sensitive 3-5 degrees is pretty much unnoticable when you are talking about vent temps. in the 40 degree area.
08-10-2002, 02:08 PM
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James,
I'm not trying to bash you, R12 is more efficient than R134a, and I think you just said that yourself. Yes, on several that you've converted it may very well cool better than it did prior to the conversion. BUT, why was it converted? Maybe the accumulator was spent? Bad condensor that was replaced? Leaks? Bad compressor? If you had a perfectly functioning non leaking R12 system it would be incredibly stupid to open it up to change it to R134A for the sake of doing it don't you agree? Take 2 identical systems (same compressor, evaporator, accumulator, condenser and orifice tube) and put the correct amount of R12 and 134a in them respectively and the 12 is going to outcool the 134 each time. Now if you had a 12 system that was in need of repair and a perfectly running 134 system, yes the 134 is going to cool better. That's like saying that 4cyl's are more powerful than V8's because you can pass a suburban towing a yacht with your honda civic. Have to compare the apples to apples here, and not the oranges.
See ya
I'm not trying to bash you, R12 is more efficient than R134a, and I think you just said that yourself. Yes, on several that you've converted it may very well cool better than it did prior to the conversion. BUT, why was it converted? Maybe the accumulator was spent? Bad condensor that was replaced? Leaks? Bad compressor? If you had a perfectly functioning non leaking R12 system it would be incredibly stupid to open it up to change it to R134A for the sake of doing it don't you agree? Take 2 identical systems (same compressor, evaporator, accumulator, condenser and orifice tube) and put the correct amount of R12 and 134a in them respectively and the 12 is going to outcool the 134 each time. Now if you had a 12 system that was in need of repair and a perfectly running 134 system, yes the 134 is going to cool better. That's like saying that 4cyl's are more powerful than V8's because you can pass a suburban towing a yacht with your honda civic. Have to compare the apples to apples here, and not the oranges.
See ya
08-11-2002, 06:06 PM
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I'm simply talking about converting a R-12 system that has lost a can or more of freon due to a leak. It only makes sense to convert it for $40 when one can of R-12 costs $40.
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