T-FATTY

Hello,

Does anyone know who built this car? There aren't any ASC or any other builder decals/stickers anywhere on the car. The top sits like it is with a boot, the trunk lid is very small and the area between trunk lid and top is fixed/doesn't raise. I can post more pics if needed.

The car is on fleebay if you want to see pics there. I have it listed as an ASC car but i want to be sure so i can correct or cancel the auction.

, Todd.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

well it doesn't look like an ASC built car, but I'm sure the other experts can point you in the right direction. Any other pics?

-jason

JMR

is not asc
since we do not have more pics you might want to check this out https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/conv...y-3rd-gen.html
there are pics of the work from many other companies other than asc

Guest

Definitely not an ASC conversion. Is that an 87?

JT

iTrader: (1)

It is a 1987 and not like any ASC I've seen, so I'd agree it's not likely an ASC.

Here's some more pertinent pictures from the auction:









It appears fairly well equipped. A factory 350 with Ultima seats and a digital dash in a Trans AM (from what it appears).

T-FATTY

Anyone know who did the conversion? I had an email saying it maybe a Straman. What do i look for to figure out who did it. If you ned pics of certain areas i could post them.
Thanks, Todd.

okfoz

It could be a Hi-Line, Straman, Custom Automotive Restyling (CAR), or one of the others. It is definately NOT an ASC, Matrix3, Autoform or Greenwood...

Here is a link that may be useful... its what I used...https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/conv...y-3rd-gen.html

John

T-FATTY

I got the invoice today and added the list to e bay ad. It has 28 options listed on it, is that average for these cars?

JT

iTrader: (1)

I think your Trans AM was well equipped for 1987, in my opinion. You have the digital dash, ultima seats (seats generally found in the GTA) and the 350. The latter two don't seem to be extremely common on the Trans AM - from my personal findings. I know that a 350 in a Trans AM, instead of a GTA or Formula, is uncommon as they were typically reserved for the GTA or Formula.

Interestingly, you have:
"DK6 - CONSOLE,INTERIOR ROOF $50.00".

That would have been the roof console with two map lights, a pouch for storage, another compartment for storage, another interior dome light, and a set of trip dials for manually recording mileage. This is something that you certainly no longer have when the hardtop was cut off and converted into a convertible.

Would you be able to email me (jt@thirdgen.org) a copy of the invoice?

T-FATTY

Copy of invoice sent.

T-FATTY

B20 - Luxury trim group = Ultima seat?

JT

iTrader: (1)

The "ultima" seats, which are often called GTA seats around here since they were standard on the 1987-1992 GTA, is actually RPO code AQ9. It may, or may not, be on the invoice you received. Unfortunately, the invoices do not appear to list every single RPO code that would have been on the SPID sticker in the center console.

okfoz

Was the car originaly a CC1 T-top car? Looking at the pix, it does not appear to be so.

John

JT

iTrader: (1)

John, CC1 is not on the invoice. Here's a copy:

T-FATTY

No bids, i'm surprised.

slimwhitman

Not a Straman either. The exposed convertible brackets on the side of the rear passenger area make it appear to be a low-end conversion or a kit that the dealership or body shop could use to convert the car in-house.

Mirror Image

iTrader: (2)

Its nothing that Pontiac put out they didnt come out again until 1991 there was not one in 1987

okfoz

Yes and no, technically GM did not make any convertible F-bodies after 1969... Starting in 1987 ASC got the contract for the conversion for the Camaro's, ASC also did some 1985 thru 1987 Camaros for dealers, and some 1986 Firebirds and about 600 Firebird convertibles from 1987 thru 1989 for dealership special orders... 1991 & 1992 to ease the ordering procedure Pontiac offered the convertible through normal dealer ordering means to simplify the process...

John

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

Perhaps yes, but in a roundabout way...

B20 consisted of: luxury "GTA" door panels(w/map pockets on GTAs and some TAs, w/o map pockets on base birds, Formulas and some TAs), deluxe pallex cloth, metal dash speaker grilles w/cloth, deluxe seat belts, split folding rear seats, and luxury front seats(w/cloth pouch on backside). So a seat upgrade was part of B20 on base birds, Formulas and TAs, however, those luxury seats were not GTA seats.

So to have gotten GTA seats in a TA without specifically ordering them, they must've come in combination with having ordered B20 and some other option... same for the map pockets(not specifically orderable) on the GTA door panels. So perhaps both, GTA seats and map pockets on the door panels, were a result of having a TA's interior optioned like a GTA's. And the one option unique to this situation is the electronic dash.

So the car being a TA with B20 and U52(electronic dash) probably resulted in the car coming with GTA seats by default. And the map pockets on the door panels would be the result of getting GTA seats.

spain91camro

HI WERE ALL CONVERTIBLES MADE FROM 87 TO 92 ASC OR DOES HAVEING ASC CAR MAKE IT MORE DESIRABLE TO OWN A VERT BY ASC..THANK YOU

slimwhitman

By '87 most of the custom shops gave up converting the F-body since most buyers preferred to buy a "factory" ASC car from the dealer and not take chances with a "non-factory" custom. I have seen a couple '87-90 F-body convertibles by Straman (known for Ferrari restorations and convertible conversions) but those are few.

Are ASC convertibles worth more? That opinion is mixed. The AutoForm 2-seat cars are interesting and have a following. All the other non-factory convertibles are dependant on the quality of the conversion. Some were cheap and poorly executed, but others were very well done (perhaps better than the ASC conversion!). It might come down to a personal preference....and if a buyer wants a '82-86 F-body convertible instead of a post'87 model, then that would drive the value up as well.

It would be safe to say that the ASC cars are a "more safe" investment, if all you care about is future value.

On a seperate but related note, the ASC "factory" Eldorado convertible came out in '84. Hess & Eisenhardt had been convertiblizing the Eldorado since '79, and still found buyers in '84 & '85 because it was simply a better conversion than the factory ASC conversion. And the H&E cars seem to hold thier value as good, or better than the ASC "factory" cars.

spain91camro

@slim thank you for the info...helped me alot

rubiconron

This looks like the same top and spoiler on the 87 that I'm looking at.
Did anyone figure out who did this conversion?

Thanks,
Ron

okfoz

The spoiler is a stock Firebird Spoiler. Used from 82-85 as standard on the Trans Am, Firebird optional, and then standard on the 87-92 Firebird

John

rubiconron

Thanks for the info on the spoiler. I just haven't seen them on other convertibles. I do notice that the vert in this post has the 3rd brake light under the spoiler. The one in my thread has none. But the top frame is exposed in this car the same as the other.
I'm still just trying to figure out who did the conversion. How well was it done? What documentation is there on these? etc etc
When I first started looking into this car I just assumed that it was an ASC. Now I've learned different and I'm curious as to its value. The car I'm looking at needs a lot of work to make it a nice car. I'm not really looking for another project....God knows I have plenty of those.. but the car is not very expensive about 2K runs and drives and the body is not beat up. So here I am trying to find out what I'm looking at. I don't have any 3rd gen cars now. I had one in high school. It was an 89 305 tbi formy with ttops. The car looked great but it was a slug. I've always had a soft spot for the formulas....
Again thanks for the help!
Ron

slimwhitman

Ron, If you really want help, you need to post some photos of the car. Photos of the back seat area (with top up), the header latches above the windshield, the trunk lid and the top itself are most helpful.

rubiconron

These are all the pics I have so far. The pics posted previously in this thread look very similar. Exposed frame when top down and the same spoiler on the tail. Let me know if these help or not. I can request others but this is what I've been given till now.

Thanks,
Ron

rubiconron

okfoz

1) most convertibles began life as a T-top car and the top cut off. This car was originally a Hard Top, Not a T-top.
2) I think I have seen this car before online, it is a Formula 350, it was for sale at a dealership a while back, price was not too bad if I remember correctly.
3) Honestly, it may be a one of a kind... The special pieces made for the convertible conversion might be unique, which will make it difficult if not impossible to find replacement parts for those unique convertible pieces if damaged or missing.
4) The car has been repainted.
5) The Seats are not original.
6) Someone has put on their own personal touches in the interior.

What gets me is the trunk almost looks a lot like an ASC trunk...

My honest opinion is not to fall in love with the car, look for a nice ASC conversion. Replacement parts will be more readily available, as most parts can be taken from a Camaro...

I would not give much more for a hard top for the car, its too risky IMHO.

rubiconron

Thanks for the advise. The car has some appeal being the 350 and formula package. That's what I like about it. The car runs and drives and has less that 100K on it. Original engine with a swapped in trans. I know that it needs some work. The plusses that I see are the body is straight, interior looks fairly complete, runs and drives. Guy is asking less than 2K for it. Like I said earlier, I'm not really looking for a new project. I have tons already. I don't have the money for a "nice" convertible. If I was picking one I'd have to get a formula 350 vert or a formula tpi 5spd. May be years before I get there....I'll need a bigger garage too.

Thanks,
Ron

okfoz

I guess this morning, with a better monitor over the small Laptop monitor I had last night, the conversions look a lot lie the Trans Am above. I am not sure if we ever determined who did the conversion. Keep in mind there was at least 15 companies out there that did conversions...

Many conversions they put a sticker in the door jamb or somewhere on the car. for $2000 it does not seem out of line, the car appears to be workable, but I would not go much beyond that. If it was me I would get the reinforcement door jamb pieces which were used on the T-top cars. There are little wedges that keep the doors from rattling and relocate the structural rigidity to the top of the doors.

What I would do with it is:
1) Change the seats to Firebird.
2) Clean up the interior, replace dash pad,
3) Get some decals for it to make it look original (Formula 350 Door Decals)
4) Put the Door jamb wedge pieces for T-top cars, and install them.
5) Drive the crap out of it.

slimwhitman

This car is definitely a series-built conversion. I am surprised that it would not have started as a t-top car, but many coach builders knew how to convert many cars that were regular hardtops....it just depended on the specific car that the owner requested to have converted. I suggest you ask the owner to dig up any old paperwork they might have and give it to you to sort thru.....there might be an old conversion receipt in the pile. If you cannot find any proof on what company did the conversion (via paperwork or a label somewhere) then there is no conclusive way to id the converter, but I can get close when I have the time to sort thru my photo archive. Let us know if you buy it and I will make the time. Then you can take a few better photos that will get us closer.

rubiconron

Thanks for the help and suggestions. Most of the suggestions are on my list of things to do if I decide to buy. The guy who has the car is 3rd or 4th owner and all documentation has been lost along the way. I'll let you know if this thing makes it to my driveway!
Thanks,
Ron

okfoz

Slim,
The reason I say it was not originally a T-top car is if you look at the pictures where the door jamb is visible there is no evidence of the wedge pieces which would be on all Factory T-top cars. Also if you look at the top of the windshield and compare it to the A-pillar, the roof section behind the windshield is slightly wider. Also the shape of the roof section looks slightly different in that area (beyond the obvious lack-there-of on a hard top and a T-Top, The Hard tops seem to have more shape in that area.

Another reason why I say it was a hard top is in 1987 & 1988 there was no Formula 350 T-top cars, only in 1989, 1991 & 1992. There were a few GTA's with factory T-tops in 1987, but they all went to Canada, or exported elsewhere, they were NA in the US. (albeit WI is not too far from Canada.) Note that Canada has no record of any T-top 350 Formulas, only GTA's and Trans Ams...

Also looking at where the top meets the windshield, the seal in that area is not there, it looks more like a Sunbird or Cavalier in that area than a T-top would.

John

John

slimwhitman

Good points. You know the F-bodies far better than I ever will. I just know the coach convertibles. As far as that goes, most of the coach builders did not place the seal over the windshield, but rather at the leading edge of the top itself, like this car. This car has the larger trunk lid, which is a GOOD thing. I really wish it had a label since very few companies were still converting these by '87. Here is an '87 convertible by Convertible Concepts, but the trunk lid is short. I hope Ron buys it so we can work together to unravel the mystery.

rubiconron

Guys,

I do believe it to be a hardtop conversion. Your observations help to confirm that. The owner states the car was strengthened before the top was cut, but again there is no documentation and I'm sure being the 3rd or 4th owner that information was just passed on to him. I would have to see pictures underneath to prove that. Wish we had more info from the guy who started this thread or whoever has that Trans Am now.

Ron

slimwhitman

This '87 Formula 350 is now on ebay for everyone to bid on...... sorry Ron

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...SS%3AUS%3A1123

VIN is 1G2FS218XHN243256...would that have started as a hardtop or a T-Top car?

okfoz

VIN does not denote T-top or Hard Top, they are both "2" only the Convertibles were "3"

John

rubiconron

Hope whoever buys it finds this forum. Thanks for all the help guys!

Ron