(non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
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(non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
I am hoping that this would become a sticky. What I would like to do here is have one or two posts for each of the different types of Convertible Conversions.
There were at least a dozen companies that made 3rd Gen convertibles, and they seem to be growing.
I DO NOT WANT THIS TO BE A POST FEST, with stupid comments like, "That is cool," or, "I want one of those," etc. This is purely for Historical purposes.
By far the most popular is ASC Firebirds Produced by ASC from 1987 - 1989 Prior to production. Identical to the Camaro year for year, except for some minor cosmetic treatments.
If anyone has pictures of other conversions, please feel free to post them. The intent of the thread is to have an abbreviated listing and some pictures showing each known type.
?? - 1985 ASC Camaro Convertibles
82 - 1986 ASC Camaro convertibles Source ASC (from article in Chevy enthusiast )
?? - 1986 ASC Firebird Convertibles (3 known Detroit Auto Show cars)
173 - 1987 ASC Firebird convertibles - Source ASC
104 - 1988 ASC Firebird convertibles - Source ASC
330 - 1989 ASC Firebirrd convertibles - Source ASC (Note Dealer order logs have only 324)
There were at least a dozen companies that made 3rd Gen convertibles, and they seem to be growing.
I DO NOT WANT THIS TO BE A POST FEST, with stupid comments like, "That is cool," or, "I want one of those," etc. This is purely for Historical purposes.
By far the most popular is ASC Firebirds Produced by ASC from 1987 - 1989 Prior to production. Identical to the Camaro year for year, except for some minor cosmetic treatments.
If anyone has pictures of other conversions, please feel free to post them. The intent of the thread is to have an abbreviated listing and some pictures showing each known type.
?? - 1985 ASC Camaro Convertibles
82 - 1986 ASC Camaro convertibles Source ASC (from article in Chevy enthusiast )
?? - 1986 ASC Firebird Convertibles (3 known Detroit Auto Show cars)
173 - 1987 ASC Firebird convertibles - Source ASC
104 - 1988 ASC Firebird convertibles - Source ASC
330 - 1989 ASC Firebirrd convertibles - Source ASC (Note Dealer order logs have only 324)
Last edited by okfoz; 10-12-2010 at 06:41 PM.
#2
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
The next most popular would be the Autoform Convertibles. Unique with its 2 seat approach.
Last edited by okfoz; 04-06-2009 at 08:38 AM.
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
Here is some Hi-Line Convertibles
#4
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
Matrix3 Convertible
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#5
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
International Coach Builders
Last edited by okfoz; 04-13-2009 at 04:12 PM.
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
John Greenwood Convertible
#7
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
Straman Convertible
One thing I will note is that Stramman was actually one of the few companies to continue doing conversions after ASC got into the game.
One thing I will note is that Stramman was actually one of the few companies to continue doing conversions after ASC got into the game.
Last edited by okfoz; 05-07-2009 at 09:32 AM.
Trending Topics
#8
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
Custom Automotive Restyling (CAR)
#9
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
Buffalo Conversions Corp
I wish there was a better pic of this one...
I wish there was a better pic of this one...
Last edited by okfoz; 04-06-2009 at 08:42 AM.
#10
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
Coach Conversions, Inc.
1983 Firebird (from Craigslist)
1983 Firebird (from Craigslist)
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
How do you tell if a camaro convertible is factory or custom? I have a 84' berlinetta conv. and would like to know.
Last edited by Jonathan Abner; 12-30-2009 at 05:04 PM.
#12
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
Anything prior to 1987 is a "Custom". ASC started doing "Official" conversions for 1987.
If I had to guess your car appears to be a Matrix3 conversion...
If I had to guess your car appears to be a Matrix3 conversion...
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
the 6 digit on your vin it will be either 1-2-or 3
the #3 is a planned
1 is a hard top
2 is a t top
the #3 is a planned
1 is a hard top
2 is a t top
#15
Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
Question about a Matrix 3 conversion. Would the top be different than an ASC conversion? What overall would be different? Were they done prior to the ASC conversions in 86 or afterwards just by Matrix 3?
Interested because I am looking at buying the 84 on here.
Interested because I am looking at buying the 84 on here.
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
the fabric will fit on any top Matrix{III} there is no remarks when you order a new top replacement. With this in mind one will asume that all manufactures had copied the ASC designe
#17
Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
But if Matrix III did 1984 conversions wouldn't it be different than ASC or did ASC copy it. I was looking at one Matrix III and it looked like it had velco on the back part. Maybe it was an illusion.
#18
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
Yes Matrix would probably be different than any other top, I suspect that each company made their own tops, and their own frames... so you probably will have to make something to fix a frame, and any good upholstery shop should be able to make you a replacement top from the top you have...
John
John
#19
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
1982 thru 1986 - 87 = the coupe, 67 = a Convertible.
John
#20
Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
Ive got an 84 Z28 autoform convertible. I will post pictures as soon as I figure out how. What I am trying to figure out is how much to insure mine for. Any ideas what a clean Z of this kind is worth? Mine also has a 350 four bolt main shift kit and a disc brake rear end. I know the engine is not original (but runs great!) but wonder if the rar end is factory or not. I've had two other 84 Z's and neither of them had a disc brake rear.
#21
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
4 wheel disc brakes were an option every year... It was not available on every model every engine combination, but for the Z28 in 1984, I am pretty sure you could have gotten it with the LG4 or L69...
John
John
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
One thing I have not seen and was wondering if anyone knew is if any of the planned (6th digit in VIN a 3) conversions were power rather than manual?
#23
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
I do not think I understand the question...
The Factory "VIN 3" cars were all manual, I think it really had to do with the complexity of the top and with the tonneau cover it would have been quite difficult or expensive. I think another limiting factor would have been the fact of the extra weight a power top would have imposed on the car, add to that the verts were heavy and less aero-friendly than their coupe cousins.
THere were obviously several other conversions out there, I think there were some doing a power top too...
John
The Factory "VIN 3" cars were all manual, I think it really had to do with the complexity of the top and with the tonneau cover it would have been quite difficult or expensive. I think another limiting factor would have been the fact of the extra weight a power top would have imposed on the car, add to that the verts were heavy and less aero-friendly than their coupe cousins.
THere were obviously several other conversions out there, I think there were some doing a power top too...
John
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
I do not think I understand the question...
The Factory "VIN 3" cars were all manual, I think it really had to do with the complexity of the top and with the tonneau cover it would have been quite difficult or expensive. I think another limiting factor would have been the fact of the extra weight a power top would have imposed on the car, add to that the verts were heavy and less aero-friendly than their coupe cousins.
THere were obviously several other conversions out there, I think there were some doing a power top too...
John
The Factory "VIN 3" cars were all manual, I think it really had to do with the complexity of the top and with the tonneau cover it would have been quite difficult or expensive. I think another limiting factor would have been the fact of the extra weight a power top would have imposed on the car, add to that the verts were heavy and less aero-friendly than their coupe cousins.
THere were obviously several other conversions out there, I think there were some doing a power top too...
John
I think you answered my question. On my '69 convertible I have a power top but on the '88 IROC to take the top down I had to it manually.
I guess your response was that the 3rd gen convertibles did not come with the power operated convertible, all were manual operation?
I am looking for another 3rd gen convertible IROC and wanted to get a power operated one if they made them, but I can take that off my list of "nice to have options"! :-)
Bruce
#25
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
You may find an aftermarket converted car that had a power top, but not an ASC, who did all of the factory conversions from 1987 - 2002
John
John
#26
Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
I have a 1989 base Firebird convertable with an ASC tag on the door post.
is it considered a factory order, is it rare, are parts available or common with non-converts, or common to Camaro converts? I need a new trunk lid & weatherseals.
is it considered a factory order, is it rare, are parts available or common with non-converts, or common to Camaro converts? I need a new trunk lid & weatherseals.
#27
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
look at your 8th digit if it is a 1 it was a hardtop, if it was 2 it was a ttop, if it was a 3 it was planned by gm to become a convertable. that ASC tag is usually on the door but that compay was the group that made the car into the convertable alot of dealers took the hard top or ttop and converted them theirselves by buying the kit and sending them to the local autobody shop. Regarding you truck lid there is a compay called 3rd gen ranch in the states if you live in Canada there is a guy in a local web site called Kijji that is selling the parts you need
#28
Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
The 8th digit in the VIN is the engine. It's the 6th digit that is for the body type.
It was not until 1991 did Pontiac officially have a Convertible Firebird/Trans AM and was designated by the "3" in the 6th digit of the VIN to indicate it was ordered as a Convertible. Prior to that, all Firebird/Trans AM/GTA/Formulas that were Convertibles were done at a dealership level and do not indicate it in the VIN because it was after the fact.
It was not until 1991 did Pontiac officially have a Convertible Firebird/Trans AM and was designated by the "3" in the 6th digit of the VIN to indicate it was ordered as a Convertible. Prior to that, all Firebird/Trans AM/GTA/Formulas that were Convertibles were done at a dealership level and do not indicate it in the VIN because it was after the fact.
look at your 8th digit if it is a 1 it was a hardtop, if it was 2 it was a ttop, if it was a 3 it was planned by gm to become a convertable. that ASC tag is usually on the door but that compay was the group that made the car into the convertable alot of dealers took the hard top or ttop and converted them theirselves by buying the kit and sending them to the local autobody shop. Regarding you truck lid there is a compay called 3rd gen ranch in the states if you live in Canada there is a guy in a local web site called Kijji that is selling the parts you need
#29
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
Yes it is Rare by running the numbers. There were just over 600 of them made from 1986 thru 1989. There were 324 made in 1989 alone, however you are fortunate, as I am willing to share whatever research with you that I have if your willing to work with me on your car.
What I know is there were 39 V6 Firebirds and 58 V8 Firebirds or Formulas in 1989. I would be inclined to get you your sequence number in those cars if you like.
If you have any parts that you need, post it in the forum and someone here should be able to tell you what it is the same as. The trim piece on the rockers is the same as a Sunbird or Cavalier for example...
John
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
173 - 1987 ASC Firebird convertibles - Source ASC
104 - 1988 ASC Firebird convertibles - Source ASC
330 - 1989 ASC Firebirrd convertibles - Source ASC (Note Dealer order logs have only 324)[/quote]
This above is not entirely true, Pontiac brought back the convertible by ASC in 91, other then that pontiac never had a convertible before that since 69,
if so there not factory and dont really have any value as a real gm ordered convertible IMO
104 - 1988 ASC Firebird convertibles - Source ASC
330 - 1989 ASC Firebirrd convertibles - Source ASC (Note Dealer order logs have only 324)[/quote]
This above is not entirely true, Pontiac brought back the convertible by ASC in 91, other then that pontiac never had a convertible before that since 69,
if so there not factory and dont really have any value as a real gm ordered convertible IMO
#31
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
173 - 1987 ASC Firebird convertibles - Source ASC
104 - 1988 ASC Firebird convertibles - Source ASC
330 - 1989 ASC Firebirrd convertibles - Source ASC (Note Dealer order logs have only 324)
This above is not entirely true, Pontiac brought back the convertible by ASC in 91, other then that pontiac never had a convertible before that since 69,
if so there not factory and dont really have any value as a real gm ordered convertible IMO
104 - 1988 ASC Firebird convertibles - Source ASC
330 - 1989 ASC Firebirrd convertibles - Source ASC (Note Dealer order logs have only 324)
This above is not entirely true, Pontiac brought back the convertible by ASC in 91, other then that pontiac never had a convertible before that since 69,
if so there not factory and dont really have any value as a real gm ordered convertible IMO
FACT: ASC did all of the "Factory" F-body convertible conversions at an ASC facility from 1987-1992 (Camaro from 1987 - 1992 & Firebird 1991 & 1992)
FACT: ASC supplied the convertible components for 4th Gens as well, but they were done in a separate section at the factory in Canada.
FACT: ASC also did Dealer conversions of the F-body from 1986 & 1987 for the Camaro and 1987 - 1989 on the Firebird. These cars were produced side by side with the "Factory" cars, there was no structural differences in the cars.
FACT: ASC did the WS6 conversions from 1998 - 2002 and even the Collector Edition Yellow WS6 cars.
John
#32
Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
I'm trying to figure out what your trying to say, the Title of the thread happens to be "(non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles" The truth is ASC did almost all of GM's convertible programs in the 80's and 90's except for a few. The only exception that I can think of was the Oldsmobile Cutlass from the late 80's to early 90's which was done by C&C IIRC.
FACT: ASC did all of the "Factory" F-body convertible conversions at an ASC facility from 1987-1992 (Camaro from 1987 - 1992 & Firebird 1991 & 1992)
FACT: ASC supplied the convertible components for 4th Gens as well, but they were done in a separate section at the factory in Canada.
FACT: ASC also did Dealer conversions of the F-body from 1986 & 1987 for the Camaro and 1987 - 1989 on the Firebird. These cars were produced side by side with the "Factory" cars, there was no structural differences in the cars.
FACT: ASC did the WS6 conversions from 1998 - 2002 and even the Collector Edition Yellow WS6 cars.
John
FACT: ASC did all of the "Factory" F-body convertible conversions at an ASC facility from 1987-1992 (Camaro from 1987 - 1992 & Firebird 1991 & 1992)
FACT: ASC supplied the convertible components for 4th Gens as well, but they were done in a separate section at the factory in Canada.
FACT: ASC also did Dealer conversions of the F-body from 1986 & 1987 for the Camaro and 1987 - 1989 on the Firebird. These cars were produced side by side with the "Factory" cars, there was no structural differences in the cars.
FACT: ASC did the WS6 conversions from 1998 - 2002 and even the Collector Edition Yellow WS6 cars.
John
I have found ASC (dealer) conversion Camaros from '85 and Firebirds from '86. That would extend the year range you listed above.
I know these are not listed in your official ASC build counts, but neither are many other dealer ordered ASC convertibles like
Monte Carlos or pre-84 Eldorados.
You are correct that ASC built all the other official GM convertibles of the era except the '90-95 Cutlass Supreme. C&C built that
one and was going to build the '90 Beretta convertible (that was canceled just before introduction). In fact, ASC built almost
every convertible of the era, including the Celica, Nissan 240SX, Infiniti M30, Saab 900, Renault Alliance, etc.
#33
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Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
Slim,
I considered adding the "3" 1986 Firebirds... However its just rumor, I know of Two of them, both in MI, so I did not include them intially.
Do you by chance have the production figures for the Autoform Cars??? It would be nice to add to the list
Thanks
John
I considered adding the "3" 1986 Firebirds... However its just rumor, I know of Two of them, both in MI, so I did not include them intially.
Do you by chance have the production figures for the Autoform Cars??? It would be nice to add to the list
Thanks
John
#34
Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
I really think you or someone needs to start an AutoForm registry thread. Have members post their car's model, year and the serial number on the door jamb tag. In short time, you will be able to approximate production totals for each year. I have been able to do that on the Straman cars. I have saved tag numbers for a dozen or so AutoForm cars, so that would give the effort a jump start.
Last edited by slimwhitman; 10-12-2010 at 09:47 PM.
#35
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Car: 99 3000gt 88 gta vert 88 gta h/t
Engine: v6 /5.0 /5.7
Transmission: at/5 speed/at
Axle/Gears: ? /3.45/3.23
Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
I have an asc 88 gta
#38
Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
yeah...i have had this car since i was 16.....it wont be the same car if i buy another one. i am thinking of getting a 91 vert for the wife to play with. she loves that style. however, i think i may try and find a wreck and convert this myself. does anyone have any experience with this
#39
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
yeah...i have had this car since i was 16.....it wont be the same car if i buy another one. i am thinking of getting a 91 vert for the wife to play with. she loves that style. however, i think i may try and find a wreck and convert this myself. does anyone have any experience with this
Just for pieces and parts, keep in mind,
If by some chance you found a nice Wrecked Vert, your probably looking at about $600 - $1000 for the car, at a minimum from a junkyard. If its hurt too bad then the parts are useless. Your better off looking for a V6 ro a RS that has a blown motor or something that is not cosmetic. A Front end crunch would easily bend and twist those parts that you need, specifically the subframe connectors
Then you start hacking off your top, and you need to modify the front fenders,
Interestingly I believe that the Cavalier and the Sunbird conversions used similar pieces, so the sub-frames might be the same, of course the wheelbase is slightly longer on those cars, so you would have to trim down the subframes to get it to work.
You add to the fact that I would not do it without replacing all of the weather seals... which has been about $700 or so for the complete kit. Even if you got a nice car, chances are you will have to replace the header panels for Bow #1 and the windshield header trim piece. that's another $300 from Hawks.
Paint (by a Pro) will cost at least $2000, I bought my paint and it cost me $2000 for a complete repaint. Of course that included sandpaper, and primer, not just the paint.
My suggestion is not get attached to a car, been there, done that. Sure its your first car, and sure its sentimental, but it is a Thing, and that thing can be replaced. Also If you get your wife a Vert as you mentioned, you may find that you do not want two convertibles. Honestly I have one of each, a T-top, hard top and a Convertible... The most fun car is the Hard top... Of course it is a 5 speed, but it is just fun. I like the convertible, but I am not much of a sun worshiper...
All in all, for all your hard work you will be out at least $4000 by the time your done, and that will be if you are lucky.
Honestly tho, it is fun to dream, and that is not a bad thing, it keeps us motivated.
John
#40
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Car: 84 z28 convertible
Engine: 350
Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
I was curious how many of these had the roll bar speedster style look like on mine, and if any one can point me towards the company that did my conversion, my mechanic said the frame was extra braced, so I'm guessing it was done by a company that did alot of these, it seems to be manual but is a pain in the *** to put the top up and down by myself, much easier with 2 people, and I have a button on the dash that says up, but it don't do anything and I don't see a motor anywhere for the top, but not sure what else the button could be for, it would be nice to make automatic, or hopefully get it working, mine is a 84 model z28 and I just bought it didn't get too much history.
#41
Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
Show us a photo of the header latch area above the windshield and one of the back seat sidewalls without the tonneau that covers up part of it and I might be able to narrow down a converter. Also, look for an etched number near the driver side top latch on the top frame that might read something like ST1024 or something and that would make it a Straman conversion.
EDIT: I see that you have asked this on another thread so I will go there to continue the discussion.
Last edited by slimwhitman; 04-29-2011 at 09:03 AM.
#43
Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
#44
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
Slim,
It would have to be a pre-production car, as they only offered the LG4/A4 and LB9/M5 as options in 1987...
It would have to be a pre-production car, as they only offered the LG4/A4 and LB9/M5 as options in 1987...
#45
Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
That's what I was assuming, but I would also like to know the number on the dash from vicman so we can start to trace the number of "special editions" were built in '87. What is the highest number you have ever seen?
#46
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Car: 83 Trans Am / 96 Jeep XJ
Engine: 355 / 4.0 I6
Transmission: TH350 / Auto
Axle/Gears: 3.23 10-bolt / 4wd
Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
Found this pic on R. Straman conversions, says 608 were built. I am not sure about the validity of this, I just thought it would be a good addition to the archives.
#47
Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
For the record....they did NOT build 608 f-body convertibles. I spoke with someone related to the company and Straman inflated production counts for this article (comes from 1991 in Automobile magazine) The count is probably near half this amount. Thanks for posting, though.
#48
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
Slim is your guy when it comes to some of this stuff... He has done a ton of homework on the 3rd gen verts...
Maybe because I don't look for them, but I just do not see that many Stramman verts, I see a lot of the Autoform (apparently around 600 made) or ASC converted Verts (Non "factory"). about 750 - 800 including (600+ Firebirds and something around 250 Camaros)
John
Maybe because I don't look for them, but I just do not see that many Stramman verts, I see a lot of the Autoform (apparently around 600 made) or ASC converted Verts (Non "factory"). about 750 - 800 including (600+ Firebirds and something around 250 Camaros)
John
#49
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Car: 92 Firebird Conv/70&72 SS Camino's
Engine: 305/396/350
Transmission: Auto/4-Speed/Auto
Axle/Gears: ?/?/3:31 Posi
Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
Hello All, Not sure if this is the correct way to introduce myself or not but I just now became a Member. I recently (Last Week) purchased a beautiful Red with Beige Interior and Top ASC 1992 Convertible with 112xxx Original Miles. I am 3rd Owner, It has only been driven apprx. 5000 miles in the last 6 yrs. It still looks like a new one, it was in a Friend of mines Dad's Car Collection, but he passed away 10 Month's ago and everything is being Sold. I'm now trying to Research everything I can about these Cars. I would Gladly like to hear from anyone who knows about them. Thank you and I'm already enjoying what I have read so far.
#50
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
Posts: 14,242
Received 170 Likes
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125 Posts
Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: (non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles
Being a 1992 it would be considered a Factory convertible. ASC did most of GM's convertible conversions in the era. Start a new thread and post some pictures.
Congrats.... John
Congrats.... John