hey guys im new here and i just got my 1991 camaro rs, its got the 305 tbi and im wanting to hit 12's with it so here's what i got so far and need help with rest

TFS super 23 175 heads set up for a max lift around .550
hedman longtubes, with 3 inch pipe
2800-3500 stall any input from you guys on which would be great
4.10-4.56 gears
holley 750,650, or 600 cfm

these are all parts i have stalls,gears laying around, carbs from my boss, headers which i just got and i have read engine builds on 305's which make all but 400 horse with a much milder cam than im planning and heads that didnt flow as good as the TFS 175's so please help guys on choice of intakes, stall and any various parts you can think of im going to swap a 350 in later and most parts will transfer over soo im just wanting to see if i can break 12's with my NA 305. also im going to do drag springs and shocks and DR's or slick. so if im getting around 400 horse at the crank i dont see why 12's would be out of the question for a 305, its whats available to me now and im going to work with what i got. thanks again for reading and its nice to be here.

john

 

the trick flow heads are awsome for 305 builds.i am assuming your using a 700R4 trans ?
i would go with 4.56 or even 4.88.a well set up 650 should be good for your needs.
a 3000 stall is good.what cam are you planing to use ? i have used a xe268 in the past on my 305 and thats what i am gonna get for the build i am doing now as well.
asfor the intake i would use a rpm air gap or victor jr.
is this car gonna be a strip only car or street and strip??

 

im thinking a comp 280, or something wild. i just want something different and from doing research on 305 builds, people making 380+horse with a set of vortech's and a mild cam, i think i can hit 400 horse...crank that is...with the trick flows, and more extreme cam. although i dont know how good vortechs flow compared to the TFS 175's. sooo im thinking like a comp 280, unless anyone knows of a good cam right around .550 lift. and the 650 carb sounds good. and please keep in mind that the TFS 175's i have, stalls and carbs, please dont hate on me for wantin to build my 305. alos what would be a good intake?????? thanks for the help guys

 

also gotchya on the intake sorry bout that thanks!!! this is going to be both and i only have a 10 minute drive to shop i work at soo im not concerned about how extreme the setup is actually i would prefer a crazy 305 street camaro haha

 

Anything less than a 3000 stall = waste of time and money. Take my word for it.. spend money on a GOOD converter, and do it right the first time. A good converter with a higher stall will drive identical to a cheaper one with a much lower stall speed.

You get what you pay for when it comes to converters.. Combined with suspension work, and a decent gear ratio will get you much closer to your desired ET's.

I vote for a 3600 stall from one of the major high-end converter companies (not TCI, Hughes, and B&M or any other of the cheap converters!). I bought my 4200 from Circle D and it should be arriving on Wednesday.

 

What kind of fuel are you going to be running? Juice? Rear tire/wheel size? weight reduction?

 

I don't think you will make it into the 12's with what you have

 

One thing to think about is that big radical cams make power from revving real high. A stock bottom end isn't going to last long at 7,000 rpm or so.

 

thanks for the info guys, and as far as juice no, and gas it will be pump gas, and if im running at the track a little race gas i quess but ill be running pump gas on the street, as far as tires slicks at the track. as big as i can get without minitubbing or anything crazy. tire recomendations would be awesome!!! i have weld prostars laying around somewere i think 15x8's or x9's. weight reduction will be as much as possible that i can get, i dont care for a back seat, and any pointers in that department would be great as well, im also planning on deleting smog,ac,power steering, and getting an electric water pump, i dont want much of anything on the drive as possible. also just found a cheap SBC vortec blower...i might knab it cause it would work on any carb sbc from what i hear and would be awesome for a later 350 swap. and i dont see why i couldnt hit 12's with what im planning, and i know i can when i setup the trans and suspension and rear.

 

If you are going to be running the stock bottom end in that 305 even if you are running a low boost blower you will take the crank out if you get any kind of traction. If you are serious about running 12's i think you better increase your budget

 

ok well i thank you for your input but from people i have talked to, with setups similar to mine, yet not as powerfull ill see the 12's. i mean come on i had a 2000 mustang gt with bolt on's and 4.30 gears and dr's that ran 13.0s i can hit 12's with near 400hp at the crank. and a capable suspension and full slicks. plus im doing this for the people who want to build ther 305 but hear negative things from 305 bashers. because lets face it, if its not broke why "fix" it. oh and btw my 4.6 had over 160xxx miles and i never wiped anything out of it and i hooked hard. my 305 runs great has new bearings and is nice and fresh thats how i bought it.
tfs

 

We 305 builders will continue to build regardless of the bashers, but boost AND 400 hp will break a 2 bolt main. I'm building my car for autox so I don't require much hp so this isn't a problem, but for drag racing the 305 isn't going to get you very far solely because of the 2 bolt main.

 

oh sh*t sorry need to finish the post haha anyway this is what i have so far

TFS heads
some type of .510 lift cam right around there
longtubes with a full 3inch 2 into 1 exhaust
drag springs and shocks
4.56 rear or something else
eldebrock air gap or something
4000 stall
i have a demon 650...idk what you guys think
my weld 15x8 pro stars in the back and skinnies upfront
hoosier slicks
and weight reduction

any good manual valve bodies for the 700r4???? thanks for the info everyone

 

drag springs and shocks won't do you much good without a good panhard rod and LCAs.

 

gotchya man thanks. this will be a very fun build!!!

 

There's nothing wrong with 2 bolt main blocks. Guys were whining about that for years under boost with 302 SBF's cracking blocks until they realized you actually HAVE to tune things properly if you expect them to live.

I seriously doubt he'll break it. I know plenty of people pushing a LOT more power than that with no problems whatsoever.

 

mw66nova did it with mildly ported 416 heads, a 280H cam, a decent dual plane and a Holley 650DP. Also had hedman LT's and a dual 2.5 inch exhaust. Of course it was geared in the 4.10-4.56 range and had a super loose converter. But it can be done. He hit 12.20 I think... somewhere around there. Understand, though, that he wasnt running a stock bottom end either. He wasnt using anything exotic, but it wasnt stock rod bolts or a stock crank. His car also weighed right around 3000 lbs without a driver.

You really ahve to stack the deck in your favor to make it happen with a 305, but you're most of the way there. It can be done if you can let go of the idea that it can still be a convenient, streetable commuter car. He drove his every day, but most probably wouldnt be able to tolerate the racecar-isms that thing had for everyday driving.

BTW, I think he used an Eagle cast crank and Ohio crank rods (regular I-beams) and a regular 2-bolt block.

 

your going to need to reduce the weight of the car a lot, like gut it...

i'm running full interior car with power windows/locks/seats, Air conditioning...

with my non-stock 305 and 14#'s of boost i made 420 ft/lbs of torque to the rear wheels and 380 hp.... that's over 450 at the motor with 2 bolt mains.... the car is very streetable and cruises nice... i'm in the 12's with drag radials.

not sure why all the bashing on 2 bolt mains

 

wow thanks guys, i knew it could be done i have been talking to matt. thanks for the support and advice. although thro the shop i work at i can get a new 290 horse gmpp crate that the local gm dealer/service center for 800 cause they need it gone because they are closing the storage house they house parts at. i think i might buy it just for the 350 swap later.

 

would you guys just swap the 350 in now or build the 305???

 

The crate 350 would be cost effective.

 

350 now

 

Why WOULDN'T you build the 350??

 

if your gonna change the motor you might as well go turbo bigblock .lol

 

Do you have the heads and parts laying around? Your goals of 12's with 305 are easy but if you can put same heads on the 350 crate and recam it that will get you farther in the end. Ive been 12's with just bolt ons in a 350 L98. Heads cam should have no excuse

And you dont need 4.xx gears. Unless 1/8 mile only

 

awesome and yeah i just grabbed that motor today, it will arrive 2moro and yes i have the tfs 175's yet the heads on this motor claim to be 1.94 valves already. im just curious how much better the TFS 175's flow better. and 12's should be no prob for a HCI 350 i agree

 

the trick flow heads should be better then the stock smoger heads on that crate motor.

 

305's are such a waste of time

 

i know man haha, i just dont know what to build now if i should just build the 305 and push the limits of rpms and see what happens for ***** and gigs or just put a 350 in....or 5.3 swap.... so many choices making mehh crazzyyyy

 

Lower 12's are doable on the 350 with everything set up right. 305 should get into the mid higher 12's. How fast you wanna go lol

 

My all-GM internals, stock tune LS1/4L60E has run 12.0's with nothing changed from its daily driver configuration but slicks on the back. It idles smoothly and gets mileage that rivals the LG4 than ran a best of 16.0.

Why would you bother with a Gen I SBC?

 

Gen 1 is alot cheaper at this point if he has a complete fresh bottom for 800 bucks and already has the heads...

LS swap is 1000-2000 bucks more all said and done from the various swap threads I've seen posted here.

 

yes, i know the ls motors are amazing i just dont know much about computers, and all that jazz i dont want to get over my head with a swap. plus around here ls motors are not very easy to come by, and then people want a small fortune for them!!! it sucks but hey whatchya gon do

 

you said you're in PA right? there is a guy that goes by denmah on theturboforums.com that goes through 4.8's and 5.3's like candy and he's in Allentown. i'd say he picks one up from his local yard every couple weeks between all the projects he's got going.

 

awesome im like not even an hour from allentown, whats his yard called man

 

no idea, but a quick google of "allentown, pa salvage yards" yeilded 7 different places. might be worth looking into. 4.8's and 5.3's can be had for pennies on the dollar. 5.7's and 6.0's typically go for more.

 

Denmah is on here too i believe

 

Turbo lsx is so much better. Ls series motors just want more and more boost.

 

hmm thanks guys im lloking into it today. i have seen the 4.8 with turbos make nice numbers!!

 

Thats subjective to the setup in question... for a budget build, the lsx truck motors are hard to beat for 800+ hp sometimes. Incredible what they can do, but all out builds, a big block has beefier parts than any lsx and will make tons more power. The fastest turbo motors out there are all big blocks with twin 80+ mm setups 2500-3500 hp is common

 

Up here in New England, LS motors go for 2K +, for motors that have over 100k miles.

 

how about a lightweight supercharged v6....
tugging on my collar here saying eeeaaaahhh

 

correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this a bit of a budget build the OP is suggesting?

 

Alot of people here are underestimating the power of the 305.

I have a fuel injected motor but based on what I've read a 650 - 700 carb is the perfect "sweet spot" for a 305.

With the TFS heads you have (A near future upgrade I have planned), 280 cam and especially the very low gearing you have planned I wouldn't be surprised if you ran mid 12's. Just remember don't go TOO low or you will overrev the motor/have to shift beyond your 1:1 gear (If using a manual or overdrive transmission) to complete the quarter mile. This would of course be counter productive since you are revving past your peak HP/Bring gear REDUCTION into play.

And to all the people saying the block will not handle boost, that is not true.

With a MILD blower setup ontop of your parts list I would expect you to peak in the 550 crank HP range, which is right at the (safe) limit of the stock crank and main caps. Remember, a 2 bolt mains and stock crank are SAFELY reliable to about 500 or so HP. Just because you make 501 or up doesn't mean it will automatically break, it just means you are rolling the dice (Unless of course you are making some pretty big numbers).

On a side note, I am becoming increasingly astonished with the mindsets on this forum. For crying out loud the OP came here asking for help with a 305 budget build and while I knew the 350 swap thing was inevitable, now we have everyone telling that a smallblock in general is a waste of time and to go with an LSx. Wtf?

 

gen I sbc's are a waste of time, you should consider LSx

this statement doesn't come from lack of experience. if you've been on this board for more than 5 years, you know what i've done with the 305 (and with less cylinder head than the OP has to boot).

 

That is an arrogant statement. Yes, I whole heartedly agree with you and everyone else that the lsx platform is a SUPERIOR motor to the SBC and the 350 is a superior block to the 305. But smallblocks are not "a waste of time".

I never said or intended to insinuate that that statement comes from lack of experience. You and many of the other people who are suggesting an lsx including five7kid who I was actually surprised to see the suggestion from, are some of the most experienced members on this board.

Unfortunately, and this is just my own personal observation, with the majority of the users on this board a lot of knowledge brings about, I guess you could say a "superiority complex". The LSX is a much better platform, but given the fact that he already a ****pot full of smallblock parts including the block itself and from the impression I got, it is far far from being practical. So much time, work and money when his original goal was for 12s. A STOCK LSX with a few free upgrades and maybe a couple bolt-ons can go deep in the 12s which negates the point of moving to the better, more powerful platform.

Hell, just the other day I asked a simple question about my brakes and the very first response I got was calling me full of crap for misquoting my braking distance, then proceeded to tell me that the stock 10.5" rotor setup albeit modified was utter trash and recommended an upgrade. Yes, I am well aware that the 10.5" setup is garbage for anything other than moderate street use, but the intentions of my car are just to be a fun daily driver and I had already done all the research beforehand and knew what I was getting into, then got talked down to like I didn't.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, that I see it all the time on this board. Someone makes a post asking for help on a given scenario and everyone and their uncle chimes in and tries to tell them It's a bad idea and to do it this way instead. There are instances where this kind of advice would be appropriate but based on what the OP provided us it looks like he has already done his research, decided his goals and knows what he is getting into. He doesn't need a dogpile of people telling him how what he has his sights set on and is comfortable with is such a big waste of time and that THEIR idea is better. First it was 305 > 350 now It's SBC > LSX? What's next, thirdgen > fourthgen?

For crying out loud with the frequency that this happens on this board if I didn't know any better I'd think you guys were getting paid commission to peddle parts

 

are you done?

i have not only been in contact directly with the OP, but have given him an entire RECIPE on how to make his 305 AND his 350 go well into the 12's privately. my comments on this thread have been PURELY sarcastic, and given that what i have already been pm'ing him, he's well aware of my position on the matter.

this thread went from a "lets build this" type thread, to another internet BS barstool racing type "what if" thread. the OP doesn't even know what he wants to do yet, and even he himself suggested the lsx platform to me privately (and later publically in this very thread) and once given a local avenue for getting into an lsx platform on the cheap, it's become a bit more realistic. let him do whatever he wants to do.

as far as five7kid and myself, we have seen the light. once you build your first lsx based build, you will understand where we're coming from. heck, we did a budget 5.3 build in my brother's iroc. it's a bone stock bottom end, some 6.0 heads (so low compression) ls1 intake, fbody exhaust manifolds, one of my y-pipes, magnaflow catback, stock 4l60e with stock converter and 2.73's, and a bonestock truck calibration in the pcm. it's been 99mph in the 1/4, and gets 30+ mpg on the highway. he's got less than 2500bux in the whole swap.

 

TGO, where even the wise elders can be children.

I'm not going to argue with you on the points that you made with the lsx because they make perfect sense. I'm just sorry that you can't get past your own experience to see any of mine (points).

In fact, I am not going to argue with you at all.

Yes, I am done.

 

ugh, it's so hard to be sarcastic on the internet.

look man, you have plenty of valid points, however, he is considering all possible reasonable options at this point. since he started the thread he has changed his mind 4 or 5 times.

concerning the brake board, or whatever else you have experienced, i can't speak for them. i spend most of my time on the organized drag racing board, and we're a touch abrasive over there. sorry if that spilled out here, but it was merely sarcasm.

 

The brake situation really had little to no influence I was just using it as an example.

I didn't intend for this to turn into an elementary school playground scuffle. I have no idea what you guys have talked about privately so I can't comment on any of it.

I'm just saying from everything that was said out in the OPEN where I and the other members could see, it looked like the OP went from "I have these parts and want to do this. This is going to be a fun build!", to "Oh wow REALLY I could do WHAT for HOW MUCH!?". It just looked like you guys unmade his mind up for him and are pointing him towards unfamiliar territory. It most certainly wouldn't be the first time I've observed this here either.

I am more than confident that you can provide him with all the correct facts and information to make it happen but speaking from experience (Trust me when I say that) It's a HUGE difference reading what someone is typing to you over a forum and them actually being there to mentor you on the job.

Either way, sorry I blew everything up and let's just say it and get back on topic.