AFman341

So I have been doing a lot of reading in the forums to look for the answers and think I have a pretty good handle on what I would need to do to cut out the ccc control over my car and make it non cc'ed.

But I still have questions.

First off I own a 87' trans am, 5.0L 5-speed with the 4bbl CCC.
I have been having some idling and warming up problems with it as the owner before me installed a manual chock and there's pieces missing from the carb.
and it just doesnt seem like its as fast as it should be.

Now I used to have a similar 87' trans am before this one that had engine work done to it, : new headers, edelbrock carb, new aircleaner, and full exhaust. (car was a rusty pos though and i couldnt bring it with me)

So I was wanting to do the same thing to this one since the one I had before ran perfect and was much faster then this car.

This is what I want to do:

Carb: http://www.holley.com/0-86670HB.asp

Intake manifold: http://www.holley.com/300-64.asp

Headers: hooker headers

exhaust: redone like the factory but a 2.5in pipe or 2.75in w/o cat (since im in england right now I dont need a cat) but ill have a muffler put on with the fake duels
(Will take suggestions on the exhaust, I dont know what would be the best thing to do with it, I had 3in on the last car but that seemed really big, please let me know what you guys think)

and ill be getting a new aircleaner.

So that is what I want to do, But I have been reading a lot that people dont think that going non-ccc is a good idea. that is you just rebuild and tune your current CCC set-up that you will be making good HP.

My question to that is how can you make more HP out of a 470cfm stock carb?

After reading some into the engine specs (correct me if im wrong) the engine can handle up to 650cfm? so why wouldnt I take advantage of a 670cfm carb (the one I posted above) and make more HP.

Also from what I understand is the engine is basically retarded down to meet EPA regulations by way of the carb/intake/headers/egr valves/exhaust
so once I open it all up (like what was done on the last car I had) I should be making way more then the factory 170hp right?

My main question in all of this is it worth it to upgrade the parts and will that increase the power im making?

I dont care about illegal/legal EPA regulations, you can tune to not be gussling gas and get good emmisions, it just cuts into how much cfm your pushing and hp your getting out of the tailpipe.

I know someone in here is going to tell me to just upgrade to a 5.7L or an LS1. and what I have to say to that is its not feasible for me to ship a new engine oversea's plus the 6-speed I would want to go with it. so id rather just put about a grand or 2 into the existing car and having something fast right away with out going through all the heart ache of an engine swap in England.


Also I have been reading I will have to get a new distributor to go with everything? what would you guys recommend and how does that mess with the timing? would I want something with the same timing as factory or would I want to advance the timing? Any recommendations here would be very helpful.

Sorry this has been a very long read, I am still new to engine maintenance and haven't ever done this much to a car before. im a Air Force aircraft mechanic so im mechanically inclined, please forgive me if some of the questions sound stupid or are obvious.

Please let me know how this build sounds or if you would suggest any different kinds of parts, all input is helpful and I would just like to make sure the build goes off with out to many problems.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

First, thank you for your service.

Second, do you plan on leaving the car there when you rotate? You won't be able to bring it back to the States with non-computer carb/distributor on it.

Where are you getting 470 CFM? The stock CC q-jets are capable of flowing 750 CFM (although a 305 won't be able to use that much).

The only exhaust you should consider is 3". 2.5" is not much better than stock, 2.75" is an oddball size. Get all of your exhaust pieces for the '86-'90 TPI single cat application and you'll be getting the "good" stuff.

After you do all that, you'll make about 175 HP unless you do something about the single snorkel air cleaner. Take care of that, and you'll make about 200 HP. To make more than that, you'll need to swap out the cam.

84_Cruiser

I am planning on doing a similar build but I'm going to use a mechanically metered quadrajet. In going over all the emissions stuff, I plan on emilinating the catalytic converter, secondary air injection, EGR, and the CCC computer and harness. other than that I'm keeping PCV and EVAP because both of those are good things. For the EVAP I'm going to use a mechanical purge valve from and older GM car instead of an electronic one.

eliminating the problematic CCC system and the power-robbing emissions equipment are completely worth it.

oamhmad

iTrader: (1)

No, it doesn't work that way. 670 will be too much carb for the 305 and it will just run super rich. 600 CFM should be more than enough. Use the extra money you save to buy a wide band air fuel ratio gauge to tune the carb once you get it.

You will also need a vacuum advance distributor. Mallory's 85 series HEI distributors are pretty good.

Also, don't forget the Holley throttle cable and kick down bracket for a 700r4 if you have an automatic.

Apeiron

A 670 won't run rich when it's properly tuned.

eboula24

iTrader: (1)

i did have my ccc quadrajet rebuilt with slightly bigger jets and a few other things (sorry cant remember everything since i barely knew it to begin with) and the guy removed the computer controls..i kinda wish i hadnt let him do it because im now moving to an emissions state (didnt think i would ever move) but with the higher voltage hei dist. w/ vacuum advance, 8 mm plug wires, fabricated dual snorkel, and the carb capable of delivering more fuel it runs a heck of a lot better than before especially since i can run a bit more advance 12* and 36* total, using the hei w/vacuum advance dist...but like was previously said ull probably wish you hadnt if you ever brought the car back to the states, depending on where you go. plus i guess its important to be stated...whats your definition of fast? faster than stock..say 20-40 hp more like 5 7 is talking about?

84_Cruiser

Agreed, the stock quadrajet is a 750 and our cars run properly with those.

Could we get a list of parts together that would need swapped or removed to go from CCC to non-computer-controlled? Off the top of my head i can think of:
-Carburetor
-Distributor
-EVAP purge valve
-???

oamhmad

iTrader: (1)

Yeah but they don't flow 750 on a 305 even thought they're capable of it. No need to over carb your stock 305. 600 CFM should be plenty.

AFman341

I plan on bringing the car with me but im not to concerned with emissions, if any thing I can classify it as a track car.

I swore when I looked up a replacement carb through autozone the carb they had was listed as a 470cfm carb but I cant find that data anymore so I guess I was mistaken. I will have to look into rebuilding the one I have and cleaning it up because the guy before me did some stupid stuff to it and its just not running well, might just get a factory replacement.

ok I will plan on doing a 3in exhaust then, I had it on my last car and it made that little 2.8L sound deep so I will have very high hopes for it going on a 5.0L with headers

Yes I plan on getting a new air cleaner as well, idk if I will cam it or not seems like a lot of work.

Now is it even worth swapping the intake manifold? if I end up swapping that then I might do a cam but if putting in a new intake manifold isnt even worth it then I most likly wont do it.

AFman341

Well I had basicly the same trans am back in the states when I was stationed in DE, I couldnt bring the car with me because it was so rusted out, but that thing moved quick. Im not sure what kind of HP it was putting out but I would whip up on the 5L mustangs all day and had way more acceleration then mine does right now.

Im having sputtering and warming up problems with my current car, when I step on the gas it sputters like crazy for about 5-8 sec before it feels like it finally fires right and takes off. im feeling like its a carb problem since I just gave it a tune up.

My real question is why is the car only making 170hp stock when its a 5.0L and the new cars comming out are making over 300hp

84_Cruiser

because in the 80's American manufacturers had to meet emissions standards that the EPA forced down their throats. this meant that they had to get their motors to run cooler to reduce NOx they had to add a bunch of other things so that that catalytic converter could work better.

This is why our cars are normally aspirated and running stupid low compression and have smog pumps and such. Back then they just werent as good at making efficient motors as they are now.

Also, you had asked about cam and intake, a cam would be well worth it and if you want the most out of a camshaft, match it with an intake designed for the same RPM range.