FyreLance

I'm sorry, you've probably had a million questions similar to this one.

I have been looking for a while at buying a 1986 Trans Am off of an out-of-state friend. The car is supposed to be in very good condition, 130k miles, black, new paint last year, well maintained, all that good stuff. He's only asking $1200 which I think is a high selling point.

Here's the thing. I currently have a 91 Firebird which I am selling because it needs work and I don't have time to work on it ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=1846826332 if anyone's interested, $799 starting bid ) and it has the 305 TPI. Well, I had thought that the 86 was also a TPI... but it is the 305 4bbl. Which makes it either 155 or 165 HP I do believe (auto tranny). That seems to be a big step-down to me. I still am considering buying the car simply because of the nice condition and reliability (this is going to be my 5th car. I'm only 18. Never been in a wreck. Eek.) But I am concerned about the lack of power... but then again, from what I've read on the carb board, a carbed application is easier to tune (don't have to worry about PROMs and such), better reliability (don't have to worry about one little sensor ruining your day), and easier to get, bang for buck, raw primitive power. But I'm also no mechanic, I learn whatever I need to learn to do what I need to do at the time, but I'm no expert. So I need opinions. I'm also concerned about weather affecting performance and such.

By the way, this is going to be a daily driver, and I want it to have enough power for weekend fun .

Those who think I should go carb, could you reccomend (inexpensive) ways to quickly gain performance so that I can turn this car into a beast?

I also posted this in the TPI forum for balanced opinions.

1987fbd

Dude it has already closed. I would have given you more than that. Well maybe if I lived there, it would have cost me and arm and a leg to get it here. Anyway looks like a steal of a deal that guy got on your bird.
On the carbed car I say go for it. I have one and love it, I prefer it over a tpi set up. That is however my opinion only, there will be probably a 50/50 split on that question though
Goodluck on your choice it must be tough being thirdgenless?

FyreLance

Well actually there were no high bidders on the auction because I cancelled the auction like a day later... a friend of mine offered me a grand for it and I took it. I'm sure I may have been able to get a little more out of it but I'm not overly concerned, plus I know the guy and we both know the other person isn't out to screw them over. It'd just be a lot easier than doing an eBay transaction.

Yes, it's very tough being thirdgenless, seeing as how I only got to drive that car for like 2 or 3 weeks before it became disabled :-(. Getting excited that I should be getting a thirdgen that works for once

FyreLance

Since I can't beat the deal on the 86, I really do think I'm gonna go for it, now the real question is... where do I start modding?? :-) Should I get a new carb? How hard is it to swap? Or should I start doing other things like exhaust and such first? Remember, I try to look for bang for buck b/c I am on a budget. Help me soup it up, TGO... :hail:

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Edelbrock performer intake $109.95
Holley 600 VS $241.99
Headers $109.00
Look on buddies faces after being spanked by worn out 305



$PRICELESS$

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I couldn't disagree more about the carb change. If you live in an emissions testing/inspection area, forget the carb change, anyway (it won't be legal). And, the Performer is barely an improvement over the stock manifold.

I agree on the headers, but you can't stop there. You must continue all the way back to the rear bumper. If you have emissions t/i, you'll need more expensive headers than that, but that's still money much better spent than on a non-emissions carb.

Another must-change is the air cleaner. The single-snorkel factory thing is a power-killer. A dual snorkel (either factory or home-made) is in order before you go any farther with performance mods.

After that, you're getting into the engine - cam, valve springs at a minimum. Since you'll probably be winding the engine higher, ignition upgrades like module and coil will be indicated. A Weiand Action+ or GMPP intake is okay at this point. Then, you're looking at heads (like the World Products S/R Torquer 305's) to complete the package.

The carb is the last reasonable thing to change for improved performance. Before it on the list is "350" or "383". Long before, and perhaps not even then, actually.

FyreLance

How much can I get a dual-snorkel setup for?

I saw the tech article on how to make one, but I'd rather not go homemade unless I have to.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

There was a link to a guy who had a couple for sale in a recent post. One w/o scoops was about $100, full set-up (highly recommended) was $180, I believe.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Those 3 mods and my old 305 was putting out consistent 14.8's-now look at your sig with the mods. and your times, five7kid, what happened? Your opinion is your opinion, but your theory is weak.

FyreLance

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is the difference between the two?

NTChrist

Personally, I'd forget the L69 air cleaner hoopla altogether.
People have been brainwashed to think that the only way to make power with a carbed car is to have a L69 aircleaner.
My car with a 14X3, and a reusable K&N-style filter, was a huge improvement over the stock snorkle. Once I invest in a cowl hood, I'm sure the situation will get better.
Oh, and the best part? I picked mine up, with reusable filter, for $39.95.

1987fbd

In defense of five7 kids set up.

He has emissions to worry about as I do. His mods are on and accurate. One of the more knowledgable people on here by far as well. With the limitations we have it is hard to get better than a 14 second car out of a LG4.
I have used the 14x3 open element with K&N filter and it worked well, however the stock look of a dual snorkel IMO is alot cleaner and more productive but hardly noticeable over just a cheap open elem. Setup. So to each its own both are a world of difference over the choke chain that was factory.

Sitting Bull

NT,

The dual snorkle has been proven by Hot Rod and Car Craft to knock a full 1/4 second off the ET of a 305 Camaro. It is worth it

IHI

iTrader: (1)

When they did the testing of the dual snorkel set-up on the 305, did they happen to mention what it would do on a 350? I ask cause I know how much HOT air is being sucked into the carb after running for awhile on the street and have access to the dual snorkel set-up minus the hoses, but have been leary cause it bottle necks so bad at the base. At the track I don't care cause I don't run anything, but on the street any extra hp is extra hp. As for my hood I've been chompin at the bit to order the cowl but other members say the motor runs hotter than with a factory hood cause of the dead air space created by the cowl. I like the ram air but really like the cowl-more old school. Anyway I was thinking if I got the cowl and fabbed a sheetmetal base around the carb the size of the underhood cowl area then stuck foam however thick it needed to be to make a seal underneath the hood, might solve the problem and get even cooler air down inside where it needs it. Any comments of that set-up? If I knew that tunnel rams were'nt so hard to tune I'd say the hell with it and pop that baby straight through the hood I already have, but that's another story.

Sitting Bull

No mention of it on a 350 but just add 15% to the 1/4 second they got with the 305. Probably between .30 and .35 seconds. Well worth it!

I prefer cowls too.

I think all five7kid needs is a steeper set of gears to get close to the 13s.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

If we ever get caught back up with work, I think I'll do some playing with different breather combos some night for a TT. I know my car runs consistent 14.01-14.11 when it's 90 degrees out and 80-100% humidity and no air filter, with the 14x2 paper element in place it slows to 14.5 or a little slower. I'll get that dual snorkel set-up and rig up some kind of hoses then get some hard numbers, unless it's really impressive, I'll sell after I play for alot less than the $100 that people try to get for it. Why do they want so much, were they limited production or something?

1987fbd

I think all five7kid needs is a steeper set of gears to get close to the 13s. [/B][/QUOTE]


I agree with bull with some more gears that car would wake right up and dance.

IHI, those air cleaners are not rare at all but do carry a healthy price tag. Mainly because they are in demand for people like us. You don't see your average joe that is missing an aircleaner out looking for a dual snorkel let alone knowing one even exists.

Sitting Bull

The dual snorkle air cleaners are getting rare. GM won't sell the few they have left, instead they sell them in combo with a built 350/700r4 retrofit for 3rd gens. A lot of people want them but they only came on 305 HOs for a couple years, 1984 to 1986 I believe. So if you can get one now, it would be a good idea to latch onto it.

Besides, it looks so cool!

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Am I right to assume that the air intake for the snorkels attach to the same spot on my firebird as they do your camero?, also the one I can get for free has no hoses, I'm too lazy to call my dealer and I imagine they're pricey anyway, so is there some other material that you think would bolt on and have a good fit since you have one first hand-I see alot of dryer duct stuff on other members cars, it looks cheesy yes, but for all I'm gonna do with it till I get my new hood I guess ******* race parts will work for now. Are they worth NEARLY as much without the original duct work as with?

Sitting Bull

The only parts you can't get from GM are the air intake ducts that mount to the radiator support. The ducting is available and doesn't cost much, maybe $30 or $40 for the pair. Probably less.

I'd try and get the entire setup just because it is so hard to track down the individual pieces. I managed to get the last passenger side snorkle that GM claimed to have. It had to come to Calgary from a warehouse in Texas!

It mounts the same on a 'bird.

1987fbd

Hey guys I have access to about 10 complete sets within the Boise city limits alone. If you need me to pick one up I can ship it to you cod or something. Plus our local dealership has a couple they can get.

FyreLance

How much???

1987fbd

Hey the junk yards around here want around 80 bucks for these.

Sitting Bull

It is well worth it. Why don't you grab as many as you can and offer them to the guys here who want them?

It is only fair that you make a few bucks on the deal, so offer them for a fair mark up and everyone is happy, no?