itsMikey

okay..
got new 6x9"s
which wire is negative and which is positive?
theres a brown and a light brown with a line on the drivers side...
dark blue and a light blue with a line on the passangers side...
which is which...
thanks,
Mikeyy

cIaRmOaCrZo

i may be wrong (so dont everyone start calling me out lol) but it doesnt matter.... i rewired my radio system in my rs and everything works perfects, and thats choosing any of the colors for neg or pos. (speakers only, of course) because its still a mystery on which way does electricity flow; from neg to pos, or pos to neg. there are theories, but no facts. as long as the the current from the one battery post reaches the other post, everything works.

cIaRmOaCrZo

and if you dont think itll work, try it. put on wire on the pos side of speaker and neg on the other, then swap them.

berlin305

iTrader: (2)

Okay Only this matters if it has a small capacitor on the speakers. If it doesn't then you can use either for positive or negative. One way to find out is you use a voltmeter. turn the radio on and connect the wires to the volts meter alligator clips. if it reads neg volts then you switch it around to read positive. Then vola you have the right wires for neg and positive. A cheap volts meter can tell you.

berlin305

iTrader: (2)

this is true how the current flows. i was taught in electronics at a college that the the current flows from neg to positive. but even the teacher said i am teaching this way others might teach it the other way.

ringo234

Audio frequency is AC, which means it alternates directions many times a second depending on the frequency. The main power in the home alternates 60 times a second or 60 hertz.

As long as the same color goes to the neg (-) and the other color goes to the pos (+) on both speakers, it doesn't really matter. If they are connected opposite to this the speakers will be out of phase with one another and the sound will suffer.

ellocojorge

iTrader: (1)

ellocojorge

iTrader: (1)

^^^ thats for 88 to 92 f bodys

ellocojorge

iTrader: (1)

ive been told it does matter so speakers will be in sync otherwise some sound waves will cancell out

itsMikey

wow..thanks for the very fast responses =] helped alot

berlin305

iTrader: (2)

Sorry to crumble your cookie idea. This is wrong. AC is alternate current. It flows back and forth through the wires. At different frequencies but usually yes 60 hertz for outlets in housing. But battery powered is Direct Current DC. Nothing to do with the audio at all. Audio puts out frequencies it doesn't use frequencies to power.

cIaRmOaCrZo

berlin305

iTrader: (2)

Like i said to simplify this problem use a voltmeter and it will tell you which one is negative and which is positive by the reading it gives you if you get a negative reading you switch it and it will give you the positive reading then it will show you which one is which.

ringo234

""""Like i said to simplify this problem use a voltmeter and it will tell you which one is negative and which is positive by the reading it gives you if you get a negative reading you switch it and it will give you the positive reading then it will show you which one is which.""""


Not True. A voltmeter will be useless in this situation. The current reverses direction 1000s of times a second. Setting the Voltmeter to the AC setting will give the same result no matter which lead it is connected to.

berlin305

iTrader: (2)

Please if you dont' know what your talking about don't throw things together. Like I said i went to college for this. you set the voltmeter to Direct current YOU dont' use alternate current. This will show you which one it is. If you like a little 101 ac/dc class i will gladly teach you. Again has nothing to do with the frequency it will show you volts through the wires I DO IT ALL THE TIME to make sure which one is power and which one is negative. Just like putting the DC volt meter to the battery it will show you if you put the neg wire that is on the voltmeter to the positive battery terminal and the positive voltmeter wire to the negative battery terminal it will read -14 volts if running and if not running be like -12 volts varies. And if you switch it around it will show you the +12 if not running and +14 volts when the car is running. If you like try this little experiment to prove me wrong.

ringo234

I've been an Electronic Technician for over 20 years. so I think you should go back to school and start over.

What part do you disagree with.

Audio frequency is AC and needs a Oscilloscope to measure it properly.

Also a voltage meter will read the same voltage when set on AC volts regardless of which lead is which side of the speaker, but since the frequency and direction of current flow changes so quickly it is virtually impossible to measure accurately with a voltmeter.

If you disagree with this you should go back to school and start over.

cIaRmOaCrZo

you may have been an electronic technician for 20 years and all, but idk if what your proffesion was, really applies AS much to the automotive field... there is no reason to ever mention the word AC current on an automobile unless it has to do with the charging system.

berlin305

iTrader: (2)

Not going to argue with you. Just try my little experiment you might be shocked at the results. Seems you might have Electronic and Electrician messed up. IMO. Electricians use ac all the time as they work around house hold VAC. and Electronics use VDC. If you been there you should know the terms i am using VAC/VDC.

ringo234

True to a point. The radio has a DC component for biasing the transistors on etc. but the actual sound is AC.

Open an audio file with an audio editor (I use Soundforge by Sony). Windows has a simply one included called sound recorder but will only work with wave files. Anyway it will show what the sound of the song looks like with an oscilloscope, and it will be AC.

berlin305

iTrader: (2)

Yes i am not arguing with you about the audio of it. I know what Oscilloscope is. It reads frequencies. that I do understand but why argue with me when you use a direct current voltsmeter? I am telling you it does work it picks up the volts NOT the frequency that is putting out. It doesn't alternate. It will only go one way the frequency of it coming out will defer if you put the neg to the postive of the speaker and the positive wire to the neg of the speaker you will get the opposite freq. it doesnt' hurt it as if it doesn't have a capacitor it wont' reflect the sound of it he was wanting to know which was neg and which was postive which i was showing him the simple way of finding out. Now if it had a capacitor with it. Then it would matter which is which b/c you can't put Neg to postive and postive to neg on a capacitor. You know what will happen. BOOM! The capacitor does is cuts the low frequencies out of the speakers. and for bass you want to cut out the high frequencies you use an inductor. now you should understand where i am also coming from right?

ringo234

If you're talking about supply power to radio I agree it's DC.
But this thread was about how to connect the speakers to the radio.
SOUND WAVES ARE AC!!!!

Below is taken from Wikipedia: All frequencies are by definition AC.

An audio frequency (abbreviation: AF), or audible frequency is characterized as a periodic vibration whose frequency is audible to the average human. While the range of frequencies that any individual can hear is largely related to environmental factors, the generally accepted standard range of audible frequencies is 20 to 20,000 hertz. Frequencies below 20 Hz can usually be felt rather than heard, assuming the amplitude of the vibration is high enough. Frequencies above 20,000 Hz can sometimes be sensed by young people, but high frequencies are the first to be affected by hearing loss due to age and/or prolonged exposure to very loud noises.

89_IROC-Z28

If you hook a 9v battery to speaker "1" with the positive on the positive terminal and negative on the negative terminal and then speaker "2" the opposite they will move in different directions. If you watch carefully you will notice that speaker "1" will move outward and speaker "2" will move inward. The speakers moving in different directions will cause them to cancel out each others sound waves. Now if you switch the negative and positive on speaker "2" so that it is wired the same as "1" the speakers will both begin to move out rather then opposite of each other. This causes the frequencies to join together causing more sound.

This is shown here in this short video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIMHGkxw72o


Now with that in mind, in order for a speaker to produce sound waves the speaker moves both outward and inward. The only way to cause a speaker to move the cone out is to give the positive terminal positive and the negative terminal negative and the opposite in order to move the speaker cone inward. So, the only way it would be able to produce those sound waves is to switch the polarity.

In other words the current alternates, so its AC not DC.



This link also explains it somewhat.
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/speaker5.htm

ringo234

84ws689bird

correct.

The issue at hand is that you both are correct. Frequency is indeed a/c , however, the OP isn't concerned with frequency or current, both of which must be measured with 'scopes or advanced meters. he is concerned with polarity, one can measure voltage and polarity with a standard multimeter. putting the meter on dc voltage and testing the wires does indeed tell polarity with a - symbol if the meter is so equipped. I have been installing car audio for over 13 years and have used this method countless times to test for polarity.

To the OP: in all GM cars, the wiring in the rear of the vehicle is always dark color positive, light color negative and opposite in the front, light positive and dark negative. (unless a Bose or another amplified factory system is used)

89_IROC-Z28

If it is DC then how does the speaker move out and in?

cIaRmOaCrZo

the magnet.

89_IROC-Z28

I know that but you would have to switch the polarity of the magnet in order to do that.

Did you guys look at the link I posted above? It says "This is exactly what a stereo signal does -- it constantly reverses the flow of electricity." "Essentially, the amplifier is constantly switching the electrical signal, fluctuating between a positive charge and a negative charge on the red wire." "This alternating current causes the polar orientation of the electromagnet to reverse itself many times a second."

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/speaker5.htm

I am serious to, im not just trying to prove you guys wrong.

berlin305

iTrader: (2)

Exactly. Also the transistors and oscillators i believe thats the name dont' quote me since been a while since i messed with a radio or built one that also shifts the current. to make the magnet switch its polarity. to witch in turn moves the voice coil.

berlin305

iTrader: (2)

In which in turn i can see how you can say it alternate it does. reason again i said if he had capacitors on it b/c it does make a difference in which they are plugged in.

berlin305

iTrader: (2)

but if your saying the wires that connect to the darn speakers alternates its dead wrong. Because if it does it would blow up that capacitor. It acts LIKE AC but its not. I will pull out the mighty book to find this true.

berlin305

iTrader: (2)

Okay. I will admit. I am a bit wrong. but in the aspect as mentioned no one is really wrong just the information we are gathering. I was thinking as in you are saying it is ac through out. but what in entails is yes it alternates the current FROM direct current. Okay as we all know radio is direct current the components inside that switch direct current to alternate. So it could be done to have the speaker move up and down. As I was looking in the book. Its just what I was stating on. Is that you can Use volts to check the polarity of the speaker wires. It alternates yes. But the fact that it doesnt change is the VOLTS. the current changes not the volts applied. current is amps. amps is current. i was talking about the volts that doesn't change like 12 volts it don't go from +12 to -12 to -12 to +12. the current it self is what fluxuates. Now if you were talking about household like was mentioning before that does change the volts 60 hertz from postive to negative.

ellocojorge

iTrader: (1)

WHAT WE ARE ALL FORGETTING IS THAT I WON!, ALL THE OP NEEDS IS THE DARN DIAGRAM I POSTED, HE JUST WANTED TO KNOW WHAT COLOR IS POSITIVE, WHICH IS NEGATIVE, ITS DONE SO SHUT PPL!

berlin305

iTrader: (2)

then again I am getting all confused and hope this is right. Best of luck. Just trust me you can use the voltmeter to check which one is positive or negative.

ringo234

First, you CAN NOT change the polarity of a permanent magnet. The voice coil of the speaker is an electro-magnet which can change polarity.

Second I'm not sure how you're connecting the capacitor you're talking about, either in series or parrallel. If it's in series in can not electrolytic or will explode. However ceramic capacitors will work just fine in an AC circuit. In fact a capacitor will not allow DC to pass through it (look it up).

The only way an electrolytic capacitor would makes sense is to you it as a filter (which would require the neg side of the cap to be connected to chassis ground. I'm not sure why you need a capacitor anyway, there are none on my speakers and they work fine.

berlin305

iTrader: (2)

Not the matter of you winnning its the matter of you stating a little more clearer of what you are mentioning. I was stating the volts not the current. again LIke i said USE THE VOLTSMETER TO PROVE ME WRONG.

berlin305

iTrader: (2)

yes very true. What i was saying capacitor Parallel. Some higher brands have them for to filter if read what i said earlier it filters low freq. by parallel on the terminals of the speaker.

87 WHITE GTA

I jump in....It would actually matter if he had them wired up backwards..the speakers would be out of phase.....I actually have them wired backwards in my TA(just the rears)....but thats because I like em that way...but theres a reason for that:

Theres times when the speakers are out of phase magnetically but also theres times when theyre out of phase acoustically..So you can make up for the speaker positioning by reversing the polarity.

When the speaker is wired in phase...the sound will be accurate...for example a drum kick will push the cone outwards to mimic (reproduce) the drum kick.
But since in your car you cant always have the speakers pointing at you you can make up for that non optimal speaker positioning by switching the polarity.
Its a matter of sitting down and listening to the speakers in and out of phase and see what u like better,Its a common practice in car audio.

berlin305

iTrader: (2)

Again i wasn't talking about the current. The volts that go through the system. YOu can use a voltmeter. this has nothing to with the speaker. YOU take the speaker out of context what do you have direct current you put speaker into context its alternating current.

berlin305

iTrader: (2)

So to say the least as i mentioned at the first reply i believe is that it don't matter how you hook them up it will still put out sound. But to have them factory use volts thats all i am saying here folks. Use a voltmeter if you think I am so bluntly wrong about this. enough said. I will stick to know what i know and you stick to know what you know.

P.S i also do this as well. Edited: and the reason you have to have them correct on the polarity for the cap to work. Parallel. You switch and don't have them in right then it wont' filter the low freqs.

8t2 z-chev

most of the power going to the speakers is AC-often
with some DC component including the transistor bias
as mentioned by ringo234,checking the polarity of that
background dc is not always an accurate way to check
the polarity of the output of an amp-checking the
output of a stock gm radio,one speaker +had pos.dc
background present,while the other speaker +had neg.
dc present(i was totally WTF until i figured out what
was going on) capacitors used with speakers are
supposed to be "nonpolarized"versions-they are used
to reduce the low frequency output to the speakers
Also transformers only work on AC current and i have
used those to reduce the amplified ouput of a radio
to a lower level to feed preamp inputs-worked fine
with no reduction of sound quality or response

ringo234

Usely there will be series caps to strip off any DC component to the speakers.

itsMikey

okay...volt meter did absolutely nothing!
i used the diagram that ellocojorge posted.
thanks!

jamieschott

iTrader: (2)

Or ITS Mikey could use the schematic that was posted in the thread to eliminate any questions. WOW this thread went entirely off course

itsMikey

and i did....lmao...they did it not mehh xD

Iroctopless

40+ posts of banter and we're back at the beginning!

sam24th

iTrader: (1)

Just for future reference Im gonna post this link incase anyone needs it. Its got the wiring diagram for a lot of cars and is broken down by years. So far its been correct for all my cars, and Ive redid the speakers on several cars now

http://www.modifiedlife.com/1985-pon...iring-diagram/

Should bookmark it

ellocojorge

iTrader: (1)

sweet find... btw i got that diagram of of iroczone.com