kornchild

I have two 12" alpine type r subs rated 500 rms a piece plus two pioneer 6x9s in the sail panels that I want to powered by an amp. Will an amp with an rms of 1000 be enough since it also needs to power the 6x9s? Or should I get two amps with like 600 rms? Plus this amp has to be multi chaneled to power both subs and speakers as well? I'm kinda having trouble finding a powerful enough amp. I'm new at this and any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

jak2908

i would buy 2 seperate amps, one atleast 1000w rms at 1 channel, and a small 2 channel amp for your pioneers, what voice coils do ur R's have?? give me this and i can help

kornchild

Theyre dual voice coils

jak2908

yes yes...but dual 2 or dual 4..and whats your budget

Iroc_man

no, just get like a 1200 watt RMS amp and be done with it, 2 amps is just to complicated for a pair of 6x9's, you would be wasting time and money, just get one amp with 1100 or 1200 RMS.

Iroc_man

or just dont even power the 6x9's with an amp, they are pioneer, they are not that good honestly, if you had something better then id say go for it, if you cant find the right amp, just worry about the 1000 RMS for the subs, believe me, dont waste your money on trying to make pioneer sound good, the HU will be enough power for those.

kornchild

LOL thanks :-)

Iroc_man

np

jjs_world

Me myself , I just got 1 amp pushing 648 watts at 2 ohms goin to the subs, and got a little 200 watt to push the 6x9, but turned the power down to 150 on the 6x9

Iroc_man

you cant "turn the power down to 150", a 200 watt amp is a 200 watta amp, all you can do is wire them differently to a different ohm to give you less power, plus 200 watts is WAY to much for 2 6x9's, especially pioneer. you would probably need 100 watts rms MAX for those speakers, but i wouldnt even worry about hooking an amp up to them, isnt worth it.

jjs_world

You can turn the amp down on the KIcker KX models, and my kicker 6x9s will handle 90 apiece, but that is peak, but RMS is 75

jjs_world

Just cheked, and Im sorry, its a Kicker 250.2 amp, and its got the dials on the side of the amp to set your out put, and so far the Kicker 6x9s havnt blown yet.

jak2908

i have pioneers too..not sure what model..but from the head unit u can pretty much max them out

Iroc_man

if the speakers are 90 max, then they are not 75 RMS, it aint possible. also, a kicker 250.2 has 250 RMS into 2 channels, thats dumb, just hook the 6x9's up to the HU, it will sound the same anyway with pioneer speakers.

Iroc_man

and no you cant turn the "power" down on any amp, you can only mess with the sub output and gain, and gain isnt how much power you have, you set the gain once to match the HU and thats it. its not volume.

battmann

iTrader: (9)

what kind of headunit are you using?? does it have multiple preamp outputs? assuming your headunit has 2 preamp outputs i'd either get one amp with 2 RCA inputs or 2 seperate amps.
i say this because then you can adjust your setup so each set of speakers only plays the music range they were designed for. if your headunit is a good one, you will have a dedicated preamp output for a subwoofer. now your subs will only play lower frequencies and your 6x9's will get the higher frequencies. this will also help eliminate distortion.

jjs_world

UPDATE !?!? Just ordered new HU, Clarion DXZ655mp, so gonna run all speakers off the HU, and just the subs off an amp, now just need a fiberglass box

Iroc_man

most amps do come with 2 sets of RCA outputs. however, he said pioneer 6x9's, they are probably not even 3 way speakers. it wont make sense to hook them up to an amp, unless you have an extra 75-100 watts rms extra from your amp. the alpine's are all you need. just hook the pioneer's to the HU and be done with it. it will eliminate alot of stress. if you hook the 6x9's up to another amp and buy extra wire and a big enough fuse, then go ahead, im just saying it wouldnt make sense, unless you had like kicker 3 way 6x9's or something.

battmann

iTrader: (9)

careful doing that - when you go to turn up the volume, your speakers will distort before the subwoofers. then you'll get angry that you can't play your system as loud as you'd like. buy another amp for all of your other speakers if you can afford it.

Iroc_man

good idea.

Iroc_man

i meant good idea for jjs, not battman, dont buy another amp, your 6x9's will be fine with the HU, the only way you will distort them is by turning the HU 9/10's of the way up, obviously you dont want to do that. stay with 1 amp for the subs only.

Iroc_man

use this box
Audio Enhancer DA212 Ported, Slotted 12 Inch Sub Woofer Enclosure Box
its cheaper and will sound awsome. its ported and has the specs that meet the alpine's.

Iroc_man

nvm your putting it into a camaro, sorry, forget that last post.

84WHTBRD

i would go with 2 amps...thats just me tho...i havnt run a speaker off a deck in probably 2 and a half years...i couldnt take the fact that wen u want it louder it cant go louder without distortion.....as of know i have no problems, i have over 800 rms going to my 4x6's 5.25's and 6x9's and i love it...plus i have a line driver to control everything else including keeping the speakers low with retarded bass if i want....everyones diffrent, try an amp or dont try an amp....once you use an incar amp tho, ull never run off a deck again...at least i wont

jak2908

or get a HU like mine pioneer premier 770, kicks ***, has a high pass filter, so your speakers play only above the frequency you set it at, i have mine at 125 and my sub's low pass is 50, and my mids and highs are below the 0 mark, and it gets deafening...easily

Iroc_man

or get an exclipse or clarion HU.

jak2908

just gotta look around! and yeah if anything id wait for an amp for your 6x9's...cuz i dont think its that cool when your sub gets drown out by your speakers!

Iroc_man

sully91rs

Definetly get an amp just for the subs. With 500rms you will want them working off their own amp. Now after that, if you want to juice the 6x9s, pick up a 2 channel amp for cheap. And if you reeeeallly want the system to sound good over all (not just a boom house), get some component kicks for the front, and get a nice 4 channel amp, around 75 rms per channel at 4 ohms, and put the 6x9s and components on the 4 channel. That will be a nice sounding AND loud sound system .

I have a dinky 350 rms going to two 12s, and that was enough to swallow up the head unit output at mid to high volume. I hooked up an old school Apline 4 channel pushing 40 rms per channel, and the speakers kept up with the subs. Not he most powerful system, but the sound quality gets compliments.

Good luck with the amp search.

ScrapMaker

So what's all this about the gain NOT being the volume? Essentially that's exactly what it is... if he matched it up and the amp was maxing out at, say 200w RMS, like the amp supposedly claims, then turned the gain **** down 25%, he'd essentially have limited it to 150w RMS on HIS system...

KEVIN G.

Man, I was waitin' for you or Jim to weigh in on this Scrappy...I thought this was kinda strange too... Drop the gain, drop the volume right? (But I'm no expert in car audio.) I also thought from everything I read here, and on my other forums, it would be beter to run an amp to the mains as well as the subs, because the HU's amps were so poor, and over-rated their wattage.


[QUOTE]or just dont even power the 6x9's with an amp, they are pioneer, they are not that good honestly, if you had something better then id say go for it, if you cant find the right amp, just worry about the 1000 RMS for the subs, believe me, dont waste your money on trying to make pioneer sound good, the HU will be enough power for those.[/QUOT

Dude, Calm Down....I mean it's not like he's runnin' Xplod's or something. What is the problem with Pioneer? They may not be top of the line, but they're better than most of the off-name garbage out there. When I gut my interior, I plan on doing exactly like Kornchild is asking. One separate amp for the mains, Cleaner power to the mains and one to my subs.

Iroc_man

no, the gain is NOT the volume. look it up, volume is on the HU, not the amp, gain is basically this, heres an example, if i set the HU to 40, (thats where i usually listen to it), you set the gain ONCE to match it so you dont distort and make it sound like ****, if it were volume, you would have to turn down the gain EVERY TIME that you turn down the HU, so do this, turn the HU up loud, then set the gain to match it, and dont touch it after that. its not volume, because you dont turn it down when you want the music to go quieter, you follow me?

Iroc_man

as for kevins comment about the pioneer, im gonna say this, you basically want to run an amp, only if the 6x9's were either A. very high watts(RMS), or B. if they are 3 ways(still with high watts). it makes no sense to buy a small amp for 150 watts of 6x9's, its stupid, the HU will work fine powering those by itself, if you want to waste your money go ahead, im just saying, it would be different if you had like kicker 3 ways, or something,(i even had those only hooked up to my HU) they sounded like i had them hooked up to an amp. get good speakers and your fine, dont waste your time and money on small 6x9's.

sully91rs

The head unit volume controls the signal coming out of the pre-amps, the gain controls the volume of the signal that comes out of the speaker terminals of the amp.
Turn the gain up, the sound out of the speaker becomes louder. Turn it down, the volume goes down. Quiter sound means less amplitude, which means less power. It depends on the amp for just how much less power it puts out for changes in the gain.

The reason you do not have to change the gain everytime you want to change the volume of the sound is because the head unit changes the volume for you on the pre-amp output.

Iroc_man

nope, you got it all wrong. the gain is not volume control, ask any real audio technician, for example kicker tech support. the gain is for LEVEL MATCHING if it was a volume control then how come if you set your amp gain all the way up and have your head-unit down the music is quiet? because the levels between the HU and amp are not equal enough. you need to turn the HU up like i said before to a loud volume, then set the gain on the amp to match it. i can see why un-educated people of the car audio world think its volume control, simply because the sound changes when you turn down/up the gain, but in reality, thats not what it is. an amp amplifies a certain signal, what comes in to it (HU, EQ), all the gains on an amp do is match the level of the HU signal and the amp level. or another example, is the HU is 6 volt, at its peak volume point, thats when you set the gain on the amp to match the signal right BEFORE its about to clip. and if at that point the gain on the amp is 1/2 or 3/4 of the way up, then thats the max it will go. so basically you need to know what your talking about before you start assuming things, its not volume control, but i see why u might think that.

Iroc_man

now i didnt mean to come off with an attitude with my last post, the kid made up his mind, and if he didnt then lets get . we are off topic and are in a debate, just calm down and ask professionals if you dont understand what im saying. its that easy.

sully91rs

Before you get , after taking this off topic, please educate the "uneducated" on what exactly not equal enough means? And no crap if you mute the head unit you don't get any output from the amp, even if the gain is all the way up. That is like saying you can have the Volume dial on the head unit all the way up, but if you remove the voltage from the battery, then nothing comes out. That must mean the battery is the volume control .

sully91rs

I looked this up:
"Gain is the amount the amplifier increases the amplitude of the signal. Volume is how mouch the signal is attenuated at the output side of the amplifier. They really do the same thing, however it is simpler circuit wise to use an attenuating circuit on the output side of the amplifier than to use a variable gain amplifier."

sully91rs

And this:
"The end result is essentially the same, what you may be getting caught up in is word semantics.

Now, what may be happening that you aren't necessarily able to see is that a gain **** is controlling an initial amplification stage for an input and a volume **** is controlling the final output level from the amplifier. This was a way for the manufacturer to differentiate between the two in some logical sense. The reason for two is dependent on the way the amplifier is built. Perhaps there are multiple inputs where it is desirable to control input gains independently, but have an overall volume control for the output."


They are both saying volume and gain are the same thing, and essential do the same thing, but are applied with different circuitry components.

sully91rs

dbl post

ScrapMaker

For all intensive purposes, they are the same thing... volume controls... one at the source, and one at the amp... you want to keep the gain on the amp low enough so that:
1) you don't damage your speakers
2) there is a stronger signal going through the RCAs... If you were to lower the headunit's volume, then up the gain on the amp, you will most likely get the SAME EXACT results, except you may hear more noise, depending on the quality of your equipment and your wiring.

I don't see why you're getting all caught up in the semantics of this.... it's basically just a secondary volume control, used to limit the amp, or compensate for lower-voltage RCAs...

Is the **** on your speakers on your computer not a volume control my friend? same thing...

Iroc_man

you guys truly are uneducated if you think gain is volume. gain is not frikin volume , like you said its to match the signal of the HU. , i got an idea for you, go to kicker.com, go to tech support, and e-mail them and ask if gain is volume. so stop telling everybody a bunch of , and learn stuff before you start thinking you know everything. every real audio technician knows that gain is not VOLUME, for gain, you set it once to match the HU at a high volume before distortion and dont touch it again, for VOLUME, you adjust it ALOT not ONCE.



you cant answer a fool...

if their right their right....
if their wrong their right....

so there is no point on trying to tell a fool the right thing, because they are to stubborn to listen. learn your crap before you say stuff.

Iroc_man

also, look at the second to last post you made, you said 2 WAY different things and then you said they are the same. i should for that. you obviously dont know much if you think gain is volume. this is so pathetic, you really need to learn your **** before you get into car audio. your wrong, and i can see that you wont admit that.

mknab

Hey man you need to stop bashing on everyones posts and putting them down because you obviously dont know what your talking about.

Everyone needs to learn somewhere, just because he is new to this doesnt mean he should give up cause he needs help. This is a car audio forum and he came here for our help so I will do my best to help him.

You use your gain to control the distortion in your speakers. Run them at the volume you will be most listening to them at from the H.U. with the gain turned all the way down. Then slowly turn the gain up untill you get some distortion. Find the highest gain setting without distortion and that is what you will want to have.

First off for your 2 Alpine Type R's Id suggest getting the Kenwood KAC-9152D Amp. This is a great amp for those subs and you can find a new one on ebay for about $130. Those Type R's can take about 1000W RMS each of TRUE power.

For your 2 6x9 pioneers Id suggest just getting a small 2ch amp with about 50W RMS per channel.

Iroc_man

obviously, i wasnt "bashing" on "everyone's" posts, they thought they knew what i was talking about, you should talk, your only a junior member, you arent a damn moderator, and another thing, you obviously dont know what your talking about, if you did, you would know that alpine type R's can handle alot more than 1000 RMS anyday. so learn your ****, and if i didnt know what i was talking about smart guy, than why do i know that gain isnt volume, you just said that yourself, so i suggest you read(if you can) before you post things.


and also if you knew stuff about pioneer, its that they are not that good, so why hook a **** 6x9 up to an amp? that makes no sense, get real 6x9's before you do that. and dont "suggest" anything unless you know what your talking about.
heres one for the road....

Iroc_man

another thing, get rid of that peanut v6 in your camaro, real camaros have v8's.

Iroc_man

also, you dont have to repeat the steps for controlling gain, because if you can read right you obviously know that i just posted that same step. and i wasnt bashing HIM, i was telling the other kids that gain is NOT volume control, so read before you write.

jak2908

hey ******** iroc_man quit being an *******, i can easily see why ur on probation! and mknab did an excellent job of explaining that, he was just suggesting!!! and now you bash HIM about his v6 in his car? get real man, quit bein so immature and if you dont like what people are sayin in here just leave!!!!!

Iroc_man

man u need to stfu, like i said before, you cant answer a fool, therefore, *******, i cant answer any of you, so the kid who made the thread, good luck, and listen to someone who knows there stuff ok, to everyone else, **** you, .

this is my last post on this thread. *******s.

jak2908

good and this post had nothing to do with what the gain really means, people were just sharing ideas..whatever im not gonna talk