Enigma_valar

I picekd upa 500/1 jl amp and i was readingthe manual and it said it was stictly mono and shouldnt be bridge with other amps.

Does this mean and cant bridge two subs to the amp becuz it has the ohm sensing thing??

i paid 450 for the amp good deal or did i get ripped??? if i didnt ill probably go back and get the 450/4 from him as well

what would you recommend for polks db series speakers? and also what wiring company and size to get the best out of this system and at a reasonable price ?? thinking about ED. thanks gummie



all in all my projects finally getting under way. im going to enclose most of it in a backseat box similiar to a desing ive seen on here b4.

IM SO TOTALLY HIPED

thanks a ton
Prv. Clemons IARNG

lockchad

You are fine running any ohm load between 1.5-4ohms on that amp.
It is a very good amp and you got a good deal. As for wiring, I think it accepts 4 ga direct so you wanna go with either a dedicated 4ga run, or 2ga (i'd prefer 1/0) to distribution and split to 4ga out to each amp. In order for us to really help ya we need to know what kinda subs you are going to run. Then we can help you on the wiring/ohm load.

BTW. You cannot "BRIDGE" a mono block since it only has one output.

Enigma_valar

sorry i kinda of spaced the f out for a sec. thanks a ton ive got

a ts-w306dvc from pioneer and i have basically the same sub but wit out dvc im going to run with the the 450/4 and use the other two channels for my components.

hopefully itll turn out pretty well and ill have everything ill need to have a pretty stellar system (sorry bout the old lingo) lol

i should be fine with two subs on that one amp correct? i dont think there should be a problem but i paid good money for it and i dont want to fry it doing somethin stupid

lockchad

Ok from what i'm seeing about that dvc is that its dual 4 ohm. I also am trying to understand how/why you are gonna run unmatched subs on 2 different amps.
Don't do it. Plenty of reasons, and we could fill pages upon pages with reasons not to. If you get another sub set, you need to try and get dual 2 ohm or single 4 ohm.
2ohm series to 2ohm = 4ohm. DVC X 2=(see next line)
4ohm parallel to 4ohm equals 2ohm.
2ohm equals sweet spot

The subs you have are not the BEST to run but you can make them work. Thank *** you bought an ohm matching amp.
4ohm series to 4ohm equals 8 ohm
times this by 2 subs then run the wires parallel and you get 4 ohms. Most amps hate it, that jl will love it.
This is all assuming you get another DVC sub
p.s. that amp has enough power to SMOKE those subs so be careful.
You also asked about 2 subs on an amp. Can you specify what you meant?

Gummie

JL makes very good stuff. That said, they're really expensive. $450 for a 500/1 sounds about right for normal retail (tweeter lists them for $550). You can get them for less than that (about $200-250) on ebay. $450 could easily buy you about 2,000 watts from another company. Also, if you bought from someone online or another unauthorized retailer you're not getting a warrantee anyway. Might as well go with the lowest possible option in that case.

You can bridge as many subs as you want to that amp as long as your final load is between 1 and 4 ohms. You just can't chain multiple amps together to work together to put out more power (this is called strapping amps).

With all the money you’ve spent on amps I think you could afford better speakers. Personally not a fan of the Polks. Head out to your local stereo shop and listen to speakers. That’s how I got hooked on what I have now.

Wire – elemental designs sells 0 gauge at a good price. Welder’s wire is another solution and you can probably find it locally and save on shipping. For what you’re planning on running (1500 watts) you should run at least 2 guage. Also, don’t worry too much about the company. As long as it’s a reputable name you’re going to get what you pay for. You want to avoid the cheap stuff on ebay, which is basically lots of insulation and minimum actual conductor (some companies are selling wire that looks like 0 gauge but has a ton of insulation and is probably closer to 4 or 8 gauge).

https://weldingsupply.securesites.com/ Welder’s Wire! 0 guage for 1.39 a foot (link). I’m running 2 guage welder’s wire with no issues.

Gummie

Also, with wire. Run one big run (0 gauge or whatever you end up buying) to the back of the car. Then split it at a distribution block to 4 gauge to run to the individual amps.

Enigma_valar

we got on this topic before in other post and i KNOW i shouldnt... so i guess i wont.

im probably going to get another dvc 4 ohm subs to run with the one i got.
i did head around and i really like the polks verse kickers and what not. i like the way they sound so ill probably stick wit them.

im going to add capacitors, optima battery, "the Big 3" and probably a capicator or two i dont think i should have any power issues at that point.

ill probably run the amp wit a 2ohm load since it really doesnt make a difference wit that amp got the R.I.P.S system i think tis called

b's90cam

I got 2 12 w3's, they thump like crazy with that amp. I got my amp for free! Plus i think it's really underrated. I put a w7 to it and it sounded pretty good. It sounded almost as good as my friends 2400 watt with the w7.

Enigma_valar

another funny question does anyone havea center speaker in our cars ?? just wondering been thinking about it

also could i add a 8" in the door? could this help my sounds stage or ruin it especially since pioneer doesnt make a 8" woofer and id have to buy polks ??? just wondering... i've had the idea for a while. is there anyway to do this and not get an undisreable result like an fed up soundstage or cancellaction ??

Enigma_valar

any ideas??

Gummie

The only use for a center speaker is for the center channel of a movie. Musically, it's a horrible idea because it just blends left/right into one channel. I’m also not sure where you could install it, have it sound decent, and also not hack up the dash.

You won't be able to fit any driver's of significant size (6.5" and larger) in the door without a lot of work unless you have crank windows (non-power). Also, if you were going to add an 8" woofer you would add it in addition to your component set (6.5" and tweeter), not instead of the component set's woofer. This means you could run polk comps if you wanted to and that you could buy the 8” woofer from someone else. In effect you would be building a three-way system. The larger driver would handle midbass, the middle driver to handle midrange, and the tweeter to handle high frequency.

Also, with the 8" woofer be sure you're buying a woofer designed for midbass reproduction and not an 8" subwoofer. Not many of your standard companies (Polk, Alpine, Infinity, etc) sell a midbass driver that size.

I personally don’t think there’s much need for a three-way system in a car unless your components absolutely can’t put out midbass and you don’t want your subs crossed that high (120+ Hz)

Enigma_valar

Well i was looking around online and all i found was dynaudio, memphis, focal (NO WAY IN HE**) ,and kicker(probably)

i know this is going to seem stupid but
between these models from kicker :04SSMB8 other model RMB8
Or
from DynAudio ynAudio System 260
(Pretty Expensive and probably not going to happen)
or
from Memphis:15-MCSYNC8
(seems Decent id remove the tweet)
keep in mind im going to keep the polks and id wondering which one would integrate better with my system plans
if i do use these ill piggyback it off one of my 500/1 and sue my fosgate.

the only reason im going to go through this trouble is so that i can make my self happy and sue my fosgate amp. it has entimental value and i want to use it. but i also want to use my 500/1 i just bought and also the 450/4.

when i do this the only logical way it seems is to get rid of the crank or push it out about a couple inches ??

Thanks a Ton and all advice is appreciated.

thanks a ton give me your opinion and advice

1meanGTA

i wouldnt try the 8 inch midbass.

what components are you running, and where? are you planning on using rear speakers also?

i know you dont want to hear this, but i also wouldnt do the polk subs.

you've got a solid pair of amps, put them to some good use.

Enigma_valar

im not using polk subs as i have heard nothing good bout' them. im using pioneer model no. TS-W306DVC.

im also using polkaudio's db690 and db6500 (components)
they sounded awesome to me when i was listening to tem i also listened to some kickers but they seemed to let the high runs and kind of sound hollow and "tinny"? i havent listened to them for a while.

im going to run the the 6x9 above the subs which will be mounted in the place of my back seat.

Gummie

Don't use the 500/1 as an amp to power your subs and midbass drivers if you do end up going this route. What's your actual system plan at this point? I think you lost me. I know you want to run polk comps, polk 6x9s, and pioneer subs. You talked about running 8” drivers but now you’re not anymore? Your posts are somewhat hard for me to follow



Also, unless you already went out and bought the polk components, go to a higher end stereo shop that carries companies like JL, MB Quart, Boston Acoustics, etc. Listen to some of the higher end stuff, you might just like it If you do, e-bay is your friend.

Enigma_valar

i have to head t a business meating now but ill TRY and sketch it up while im there and scan it on hte comp thansk a ton guys

Enigma_valar

heres a "modified" sketch of the wiring and speaker placement.
i dont know how to post two pics in one reply so it'll take two replies.
tell me wat you think and if it doesnt work go ahead and slap me.

Enigma_valar

this is the other sketch.

Gummie

Def can't read any of that. If you want to e-mail me higher res pictures I will host them for you.

gumert @ graphics (dot) com

Enigma_valar

just to let you know the speakrs are in the right place but the amps aren't.
hopefully you can understand what im blabbering about now
hte 1500 rockford would power the doors the 500/1 would push my subs and the 450/1 would take care of the comp. and the rear fill.

the reason i'd wire it this way is so i can get the most power to the front stage and subs. the 6.5" and the 8" would get around 150 watts a piece.

the subs will recieve 500 watts and that should be decent.

also the 6x9s would get 75 watts from the 450/4. 1&2 channels are 175 and the 3&4 are 75.

should work out pretty well.


any one know where i could listen to the dynaudio, memphis, or the kicker 8"s ?

Gummie

Hit up tweeter if there's one in your area. If not check out the yellow pages for a car audio shop. Also, don't get too fixated on the size of an 8”. You might find a more capable midbass drive in 6.5" or 7" than what's available in 8". Also, unless you plan on building pods that stick out from your doors you're probably not going to be able to fit the 8" there.

Sub placement - this has been hammered into the ground, but the best place to stick them is in the hatch. You will get the most output out of them there and you will also get better sound.

Enigma_valar

i know this is going to sound sad but,

i loved having the subs in the hatch of my geo storm. it hit hard and actually shook rust from my car. great stuff only problem im having is that im having troublecoming up with an appealing design for my box and amp location.

that why the rear seat box seemed like such a good idea. i get an appealing box wrapped in vinyl and hatch space. itll give me a good location for rear fill and placement of my amps.

ill probably load a sketch when i get home from school.

i found a 7" in midbass from polk ill place in the door to give it that extra beat i think the 6.5 lack. which in the total scheme of things isnt much. ill probably head out to tweeter today if i dont work but i dont know if they have the 7" on a board

thanks again for being so willing to help a young man such as myself.

1meanGTA

if you haven't already built the enclosure, i, along with all the other audio buffs here, am going to highly recommend you build yourself a well box (NOT a plate, an actual box)

i'm not going to lie to you, its going to be more time consuming than a backseat box, but its going to sound 10 times better and louder, look better, and not take up your back seat. i've got a box like that with my amps mounted on the rear deck. i put a sheet of mdf under the decklid so i could screw my amps down, but it isnt necessary if you use short screws (the fuel tank is underneath the metal, that sits about 3/4 inch below the carpet (theres a sheet of padding under the carpet)

if you need any help, i could send you a few pictures of my box, maybe even pull it out of the car and get you some dimensions if you ask nicely enough

blackroc68

iTrader: (2)

Kenwood makes a amplified center channel speaker it sounds awesome.mine is mounted in the center of the dash, it is removable. gummie isnt blending what your looking for music should surround you. you dont want to hear the left or right speaker seperately.

Enigma_valar

i guess ill build well box on problem im seeing it the way to mount the 2 jl amp and the cap. that pleasing to my eyes. this is a pic of the backseat box i was planning on building

Gummie

If you like the surround sound effect this might be what you're looking for. If you're looking for a clearly defined sound stage (sound coming from in front of you) and good separation (ability to tell left from right) then you don't want a center channel for music. It all comes down to taste but it just happens that many of the addicts prefer a nice stage to being surrounded by a bunch of speakers playing the same thing.

Enigma_valar

im still thinking and since im in the buying stage of things... would it be worth it to buy some alpine type xs or type rs ?? instead of running my pioneers? if i went with either id defiantly need another amp though right??
just an idea i think i should stop running around buying things and just settle with an idea

Enigma_valar

i have another idea , In this months issue of Car Audio and Eletronics there was a acura integra witha pretty cool box. its was a Sealed fiberglass box that could open with an actuator to a ported box. seemed pretty kool o and im going to sell my pioneers for some W6's.

Gummie

v1 or v2? New or used? If you're buying new there are a lot of other options out there that will cost you less and will sound better.

Enigma_valar

new v2 they were "wanging "... and they sounded pretty decent imo. what were you going to recommend ??

o yeah and what about my idea ??

Enigma_valar

heres a pic of hwat im thinking about doing.
the problem im finding are as follow
the latch for the hatch would have to moved or removed
id have to make the port up like a knife up and down rather then back and forth

and thats about it other wise i think that would be awesome to do.

any recommendation on subs besdes w6's i want quality sound and performance. basically lost of bass with very little distortion

id be willing to spend MAYBE $500 each i dont know yet though

thanks a ton

Enigma_valar

oops

Gummie

The latch doesn't have to be removed; you can build around it with fiberglass. That's your best option if you want to build a box like that.

As for a sub to buy, check out this thread. You could get two Adrie Brahmas for that price range. Also, look into RE. They will kill the w6v2 in output. ED's ov.2 line is supposed to be comparable to the w6v2 in terms of both SQ and SPL and it’s a fraction of the price. O-audio is another good company. They’re the buildhouse for Sound Splinter.

1meanGTA

tc sounds is the buildhouse for soundsplinter and o-audio.

you dont really want to spend 500 each on woofers do you? if you do, i can just about guarantee you'll need a bigger amp. most woofers that expensive take 1kw minimum to get one of them rolling, some take even more. the old re XXX's are really nice woofers, but you need like 1500-2kw EACH to get them to really do their thing.

to get down on the power you have, i'd recommend the soundsplinter rl-p's, image dynamics IDMAX's, adire brahmas, or stereo integrity magnums. the rl-p's would run you about 450 for a pair, the idmaxs probably 500-600, brahmas 600-650 and the mags around 800-900.

they all need about 1kw each to reach their full potential, and these are some of the more efficient super woofers.

if you go through with the ported box, it opens a lot more options, and i'd go with the audioque HD's, or a similar digital designs woofer. they're about 360 each, and will easily outwang a w7, at the cost of a bit of SQ.

Enigma_valar

i really dont feel like spending that much more on amps and subs.

could i get a link to those subs otherwise ill just do a search and see if icant find something. id like to match my amp rather then go ahead and buy a 1000/1. i was looking at RE SE12 i have no idea on hte msrp for those but i sent them an email to get some info. id like to audition some of these subs buts since its an internet company i think that might be a problem.


thanks a ton guys

1meanGTA

the se's are about 230-250 each i believe. 500 watts isnt really a lot of power these days. if you want to run a pair of woofers to their potential, even 500 bucks on both woofers is going to be too much sub for your amp.

jl has always made good stuff, but they've almost always been overpriced, especially with the w7's and the amps. for example, the 1000/1 retails for like 600 or 700 right? i paid 500 bucks for my crossfire amp, and its capable of over 3 times the power output of the 1000/1. crossfire is a well respected company that has been around a long time, won a lot of competitions and proven extremely reliable. when it comes to running subs, its extremely hard to tell a difference in the sound quality of amps, as long as you stay above the jensen/boss/pyle garbage.

the image dynamic IDQ's you could run hard with that amp. they're like 100-150 each, not for sure exactly.

http://www.carsound.com/review_archive/subs/idq12.html

i would highly recommend these however. these are the woofers i run, and i love them. relatively cheap too. they'll get down on that amp, and have room to grow on. (i run 1000 watts rms to each of mine)


http://www.soundsplinter.com/rlp12_p...formation.html

Enigma_valar

i should have made myself clear... i WILL buy a new amp and keep the other 500/1. so id have two. i didnt want to buy a 1000/1 and drop the 500/1 and i d deffiantly dont want to buy two. so with that cleared up i was talking to a friend today got a grand am with two L7 in the trunk. his opinion on hte matter was to buy the ed or the re and put them in a sealed box for sq. cause that wat the sub was designed for. he's pretty knowledgable but what i noticed is that the re se12 requires about a .3 cu ft from sealed to ported is there anyway to make my actuator port work??? i have an idea but i dont really know if its feasible i will TRY and sketch it so i can get a visual thanks a ton.

Gummie

good bang for the buck amps:

http://ikesound.com/product-product_id/2425
http://ikesound.com/product-product_id/2289
http://edesignaudio.com/product.php?cid=4&pid=6&cur=USD

Please note that the NINe.1 is rated 1200 watts x 1 @ 1 ohm @ 12.5 volts, not 14.4. Expect closer to 1600 watts at 14.4.

Subs: again, check out this thread: https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=349473 ED is currently making a monster sub called the SPv.2 but it’s only available upon request (e-mail them or call them). Rumor has it that it can handle 4 nine.1s strapped or about 4,000 watts of power. RE is developing a new XXX that has 54mm of Xmas and that’s going to be a beast as well. The Brahma is another good choice as it gets crazy loud while sounding good. Sound splinter’s top line subs are also a good choice as well and use a crazy motor structure that gives an amazing BL curve through full excursion (in other words a very accurate driver with gross excursion). All of these subs are under $400 and most well under that.

1meanGTA

yeah but they all need 2kw each to really do their thing. i think he's just going to run 2 500/1's (did i read that last post right?)

haven't heard anything about that spv.2 whats its story? i notice he was running it with a crossfire vr1000d

edit - except for the brahma, it'll get down on 700-1kw per woofer

Enigma_valar

thats some crazy wattage there, thats a little over the top for me gummie.
sounds awesome and i love to say " i have 4,000 watts of pure power!!" but i honestly i dont think thats wat im looking for. i think i should be fine with 1,000 watts and the current game plan.

and yes meangta you read it right 2 500/1. the reason i was so awe struck by the se12's was due to the look. they look mean imo but i dont know how much they cost.

i honestly wish i had looked first before i went and bough all this jl stuff. i like the name and i like the way it looks only thing i dont like is the $$$$.

atleast i know now.

i also just bought a 2 farad tsunami power cap 4 channel rcas and the rest of the wiring i should need. and opinion on the quality of this stuff. they seem to have a deligant ad campaign goin for them.

1meanGTA

i know you dont want to hear this, because nobody likes to go without beats if they dont have to, but if i were in your shoes, i'd sell the 500/1 and the cap (caps are worthless, buy an alternator and upgrade your underhood wiring if you have charging issues), buy a cheaper and more powerful amp, and get some nice subs that'll put a big grin on your face. ESPECIALLY if that 500/1 is still new and you have the original packaging. nothing sucks worse than to put a bunch of money into your system, or car, and decide it isnt good enough for you then spend more money on it.

i know it seems like a hassle, but it really isnt. throw it on ebay, you may be surprised with how much you'll actually get out of it. or find a local.

Gummie

http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22978 4 NINe.1's. There are a few other people doing the same thing and someone else doing 2 drivers/8 amps.

http://www.icixsound.com/vb/search.php?searchid=211087

I'm not saying that you need to run 4k watts. Also, you don't need major wattage to sound good like mean was implying and I might have been implying. You just need it to get loud because the majority of today's speakers are grossly inefficient. ED’s ov.2 line sounds good/can hit 140 dB, which is plenty good for most people and you could easily run two drivers on 1,000 watts or less. Sound Splinter’s RL-P is another good choice that will get loud/sound good. Hell, Alpine Type-R’s still sound decent and can get loud.

Dayton’s HF Refrence subs (scroll down and then choose 10 or 12” are the some of the cleanest drivers around and are priced very reasonably at $130 each. Their downfall is that they only have 14mm of Xmas, so they won’t be as loud as say an Ov.2, a RL-p, or a w6v2. They will sound very comparable, if not better in terms of sound quality.

SX, XXX, magnum, Brahma, etc will get too loud for the average listener anyway. Also, you can run any of these woofers with 500 watts easily. Sure they won't get as loud as they would witl 1,000 or 2,000 watts, but they will still sound good. Speakers that can handle more power = generally less efficent = takes more power to get them moving in the first place.

Finally, you might want to consider a 1 sub system. Adding another sub with equivalent power only yields a 3 dB increase in output. The extra money spent on two subs might be better spent on one better sub.

Example:
100 watts on one asdf 10” yields 100 dB
200 watts on two asdf 10” yields 103 dB
300 watts on three asdf 10” yields 106 dB

Enigma_valar

unfortunatly according to jl i can't piggyback that amp. i do have a factory 3 year warranty with them and i dont want to void it.

so ill probably give re a call tomorrow and ask them about there se and sx (more then likely going to purchase them tomorrow too)

ill make the final decision on the box tomorrow as well. i really think i can get it to work without using fiberglass. i have time so ill draw upa finally sketch tomorrow after some more measurement.


thanks a ton

Gummie

If you really have a 3 year warranty that means that you bought from an authorized retailer. $450 is a great deal in that case.

Also, you don't have to 'piggyback' the amp. You can run one amp per coil if you want to. The only downside is that this requires you buying one more amp to run one sub and three more amps to run two subs. Honestly, you're better off buying one bigger/better amp and selling your 500/1 on e-bay as mean sugested. You could probably get $400 for it considering it's NIB.

Enigma_valar

i payed 600 for the 450/4 hope thats good too. i know the guy hes really kool wit me and my no bs attitude. i pay wit cash i bet that helps too.

what would be the dis advantage of going with one sx 12 versus 2 se 12 ?? i thought the more surface area the better.

im almost positive its going to be one of those two routes.

Gummie

Output rides on one thing: how much air a cone is capable of moving. This can be done by two methods: increasing conal area or increasing stroke (distance the cone can move). The two SE’s will probably be a little bit louder but not by much. Another thing to keep in mind that our hearing is logarithmic or expediential, this means that it takes expediently more power/area/whatever to get louder somewhat like horsepower and top speed.

Honestly, when you call in the morning ask the guy straight out which one will sound better and go that route if you’re bent on getting RE subs. Also realize that one sub will be cheaper than two subs in cost by its self and even more so when you take into consideration the cost of powering the additional driver.

Personally, after graphing both in WinISD I would go for the two SE’s

Enigma_valar

spent 370 on the se12 with shipping getting em soon. Then the install will begin . ill take some pics when i start show ya what im working wit.

Enigma_valar

sorry i havent gotten around to taking pics of anything. started install but i bought a newer car so i decided to put all my stuff in there. if anyone interested or if im allowed ill post pics. its a 2002 monte carlo if anyone wanted to know

1meanGTA

post all the pics you want, homie