klumb15

iTrader: (1)

i dunno if those poses a problem, but I want a high SPL system, and I have ttops...you would think it would be better because glass doesn't flex as much a stretched out panel like a roof...but there is always the opportunity to slide out the cracks...but if its sealed really good, do you guys think I'll be losing a lot of SPL due to t tops?

Saigon_Bob

iTrader: (2)

you want to compete??


then id say you would need to seal everything really good

ie: ruining teh use of t-tops by siliconing the cracks...... not worth it IMO

my car was plenty loud with or without the t-tops on

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

i don't want to compete like professional, but I want to be able to put up some good numbers when I'm at shows or random DB drags...I'm thining 4 15's, so its gonna have to withstand some pressure...I'm thinking about running new weatherstripping plus some like weatherstripping in a bottle type stuff...

Saigon_Bob

iTrader: (2)

good luck making a properly design box for 4 15's... you only bet is to remove the rear seats and make a wall and use ever inch of space from the back of the front seats to the tail lights

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

thats what i'm doing....either a wall or a big box from the back of the front seats to the axle hump below the window line so I dont' have to compete with the other walled systems...it all depends on how much air space I can get outta the 'below window line' box...if i can't get enough i'll just wall it...I think 4 15" SX's and a 4000 watt RMS MA audio amp will give just about any system a run for its money if I get the install right...

I just wanna make sure there isn't a real severe problem with the ttops...i think they would be alright because they seem to latch down pretty tight...I think if I just do some extra weatherstripping i'll be alright..what do you guys think?

1meanGTA

i think you're crazy for putting 4 15's in an f-body is what it think... lol... your car sounds pretty quick, is it the same yellow one from the video i saw? "its all about 1100 psi?"
hell my 2 12's make the rear of my car sit a bit lower and its noticably slower, like it was with no system and a passenger. i'd guess with a box and 4 15's you're looking at at LEAST 200 lbs, probably more like 250. rear of your car will sag. but back to the topic, if your taking windows up db readings like most competitions, you want it all sealed up. if you just want to pound around town, it will be a LOT louder with the tops off. i used to have a buddy with 2 10w0's in his camaro, and with the tops off it was almost as loud pulling up to a house as my camaro with 2 10w3's and 2 12w3's. tops on, was no comparison.

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

nope my car ins't yellow...but yea its pretty quick...it should run high 12's...but what i'm gonna do is build a stage type thing just to box everything out, then make a box design that can somehow be taken out for racing, but my car is fast enough, I'm not really into getting every little tenth out of it..its gonna take some expertese designing, but i'll get it done...

but yea it will be louder with the tops off, it'll use the openings as ports essentially...thats usually how most walled setups are, there just isn't enough room to make it sound good with the windows up...but as soon as the windows go down it gets alot louder...

I know i'm a bit crazy for doing this, but it'll be something diferent and i'll get the WOOOWW effect alot... just imagine, I roll up, they will be like yea thats a pretty decent car, then they see a wall of 15's...then all ya hear is DAAAAYYUUMMM

my car is on sportline lowering springs right now, but I might end up taking out the rears in exchange for 2 prokit springs or something...then that should even it out...

1meanGTA

well a box that big wont be easy to get out of your car. if at all, i'd guess you'd have to remove one or both of the front seats. you might even have to build the thing inside your car.

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

yea thats something I'm gonna have to look into...but we'll see, becaue say my system wieghs 300 pounds at the most, thats 3 tenths, thats not so bad....its a street car, not a race car...

1meanGTA

do you have the cash to do all this now or are you planning on it?

9177

If you really want to get loud you have the wrong car to do it. to many plaes you can't fix to keep sound in the car

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

some of the cash...it'll be a next summer project tho...i have a few important races in the spring at some big car shows, so after that I'll start...I wanna get it done before school starts next fall...so no its not an instant project, I have time to think things through, but i more than likely will start getting some of the stuff throughout winter and into spring...

My grandpa is in rough shape right now (damn cancer), so there might be a possibility that I might inherit a brand new tahoe, which would be a better candidate..we'll see how things go, and what happens..

ND4SPD86

iTrader: (1)

let me know how thing tune out with your four 15 I am doing the same thing with the four 15 in the back of my 86

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

like what?

1meanGTA

explorer

sorry to hear about your grandfather.

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

i was thinking about an explorer or escape..they are cheap too...i'm tryin to get my hands on one...

but to answer the other part of the question, what are some of the places you can't fix in thirdgen's that will be bad for SPL?

1meanGTA

does this mean that more of the bass leaves the car and it sounds louder to people outside the car?

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

not really...bass is linear and deep, it travels through everything fairly easily...usually when there are places for lots of air to escape it causes rattles more than anything...i just would like to know where are places that it could escape...i could see where the hatch would let a bunch out, but thast gonna be totally sealed off, its gonna be the wall, then sealed off from the rest of the vehicle, that is if I do this

i was just looking at explorers, I knew they were cheap, but not that cheap! you can pick one up with about 90,000 miles, for about 4000 bucks or so.....I'm thinking I might have enough to buy the truck and a system...I make about 6 grand a summer, so we'll have to see....maybe sell some of my belongs and ask for some of it as presents for xmas and b day...

I would love to have a better candidate to do this to, but its so much hassle getting another vehicle to do this too...but i'm gonna try everything I can to try and get a decent SUV for a good price...

1meanGTA

so what happens when you properly sound deaden and seal up every part of the car, obviously its a lot louder inside, and not so loud outside the car if the windows are up, but what if the windows are down? my cars a hardtop, and im for sure going to deaden everything in the back to stop the rattles and seal up my hatch, but how will this affect the way my car sounds outside, windows down?

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

yea if everything is sealed up air tight (which is near impossible) you will limit the amount of sound you hear from the outside...thats comon sense...and in return it'll make the pressure in side greater giving you a higher SPL number

but with the windows down, you'll allow all the bass to escape...the air is gonna take the path with the least resistance, which is out your windows...your windows will act like big ports, and when you got them even cracked, the bass will transfer out of your car really well...

1meanGTA

so as far as the outside sound goes, basically my car is a really leaky ported box. will probably be a lot louder after i deaden everything up?

curtis84ta

i read somehwere in your post where you dont want to compete against wall competitors....thing is it all depends on your subs and surface area, 4-15's would put you in some serious competition and will give you numbers...id actually suggest that you'd get 2 15's aka MTX jackhammer subs put them in the trunk. one has been known to hit 154 dbs...thats just one...well with 2 you;d should come extremely close to 160 if not a lil bit more. they are an SPL sub and will give you the numbers you are looking for but mean big $$ i think its close to 2g's a piece plus amps amps probably being 4 (6000 watts i think 4000rms). also another one you could consider would be the new cerwin vega sub off hand i don't know the name but its 1699 and weights 63 lbs. just get two of those and you;d get all the respect in the world.


on the point of being leaky...if your pushing serious numbers you will lose quite a bit out the T's unless you find a way to seal it either with clamps or caulk or something to seal those off....if you wanted to be competitive especially with a wall you will need any db you can scrounger up. it would basically be as good as having a window down a touch so that there is an opening. so either have like a solid T (one peice) that you can put over top and clamp down. you'd be better off with fewer subs in a smaller class.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

You've got the wrong car if SPL is your priority.

That being said, you can still get very impressive results for how little you can actually fit into a thirdgen.

First, I'd forget about the wall and build in the hatch area. The hatch design is a phenominal design for SPL and you lose its effect if you wall off the car. I competed against a 4th gen with 4 15s in a wall and exactly double the amplifier power I had (he had 2 ZR600s, I had 1 ZR600). My 2 12s with half the power was only a couple dB behind his 4 15s.

If I was to build a thirdgen into an SPL vehicle, I'd put as many 10s as possible in the rear hatch area with the box just a few inches below the glass, with the subs pointing up. I'd keep the box just a few inches below the glass all the way to the back seat area, where I'd face 3 more forward just for good measure (and normal usage). If I was a real nut case I'd extend the box all the way to right behind the front seats with more subs pointing up just like mentioned above, and use the extra volume to port it and dump one massive port right between the front seats, tuned to about 50-55hz.

That would get pretty loud.

In order to get truely remarkable SPL numbers, you're going to have to start making significant modifications to the car's openings. The biggest would be the windows. With the frameless windows on our cars, it's going to be very difficult to be able to prevent pressure leaks between the window glass and the seals. You'll need to find a way to replace the glass with thick plexi, and find a way to make the plexi and the entire door seal very tightly to the body. Some of the hardcore competitors use air actuators to push the doors up against hard rubber seals. You'd need to do similar modifications to the t-tops, the rear hatch, and you'd probably need to bolt a thick plexi windshield into place.

Now, once you do all this, the sheet metal will be the weak point. You'll need to do a lot of work to reinforce the sheet metal with bracing and significant amount of damping materials. This would include the doors, quarter panels and floor.

Of course, now that you've done all this, you're going to need much stiffer springs and you may need to reinforce some of the suspension components due to the added weight. You'll probably put a strain on your power steering pump, and you better plan on a custom bracket to run 3 or 4 high amperage alternators. Don't forget to save room for a couple batteries and a bunch of caps right next to your amps.

By the time you get all of that crap into your car, what used to run 12s will then be a 5500lb pig that probably can't run 15s.

Or just buy an Astro.

9177

Im not trying to put down your ideas of what to do with your car ir system but there is not enough room for a jackhammer sub to be installed correctly plus I don't think that sub is the "meca" of all subs. If you really want loud in a camaro IMO you should look into 2 15s in a big ported box. anything more and you aren't getting the full potential of the sub and just wasting money. Plus plan to have plenty of power on tap. And while the subs you use matter more important is the install that is done.

The windows in a fbody don't have frames around them which means the windows flex and move easily and allows for air to escape. Any thing that moves takes away from SPL. anything that leaks air takes away from spl. Also if your really wanting to compete check the rules, in most cases having a wall will put you up against some heavy competetion.

curtis84ta

never said it was the meca of all subs but you could fit it in the trunk of our cars...all it takes is 2ft cubed which is achievable by cutting out the rear plastic pieces (rear glovebox and spare tire well) and it has been proven that it is a performing sub in some iasca events (thurderdome here in toronto ontario) and not last year but the previous year one 15 maintained 154 dbs for 10 mins in the deathmatch competition.
here is an mini example (using jims from another thread just to prove the point that its possible) he achieved 1.5 cubes by just the well and im sure theres 1/2 cubes in the glove box.

Saigon_Bob

iTrader: (2)

1 adire Brahma 15" + 1500w RMS = end of all discussion....lol

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

some very good ideas there guys....I talked to a few guys at a comp this weekend that had big systems in ttoped cars, one was a ttop monte carlo, one was a trans am, the other was a newer camaro, they all say the same, there windows violelty shake back and forth, and like you guys said there is nothin to hold them in there, so that totally makes sense

jack hammer - I would never run oen of those! waste of money and amps

the 10s are a good idea, lots of wieght tho

single 15" brahma - I'd get a RE XXX before a brahma

2 15's was actually my first plan, then escaladed into the wall

however, I still want a wall, I dont' think i'm gonna put it in my car tho.

I am working on getting a factory job for the summer, and it sounds like I got my old job back which is 11 bucks an hour, plus i have an offer to work on the weekends at another job...so I think I'm gonna try and pick up a 95-99 explorer, like stated above. They transfer SPL very well, and they are a way better candidate for a wall, i heard one yesterday with 4 15's in a wall, it was loud but it sounded nice, and was used as a daily driver, hitting a 150.8 with lightning audio VC2's!!! I think if I run RE SX's with a 3600 watt amp, i'd be way over that....

so I'm trying to think more practical here and I think this sounds like a pretty decent idea so I'm gonna try and stick with it..

9177

Your talking about a 300 LB sub that is 24" in diameter with mounting depth of of like 3 ft. You get that in the back of a fbody without a box and it would be amazing. And there is no way that in a 2 cube box which is smaller than most 15s need it could put up those numbers. And few years back i saw 1 10" sub push 169. Was it the sub? NO it was the install. You keep throwing out what someone else did but I bet it was in more ideal boxes in more ideal vehicles. Just because a sub in say a minivan with a 10 cu ft box hit 150db with "driver X" doesn't mean that if you put it in a 1.5 cu ft box in your fbody it will hit an automatic 150db.

9177

This seems more realistic to me. Much easier to plan and to actully fit it in.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

if this is your reason alone i wouldn't do it, on a side note what amplifiers are you planning to run. when i have my kicker setup in the car it's extremely heavy and i only have 2 12's, the 4 amps running the other 10 speakers as well as all the enclosure and fiberglass work isn't light and to be honest although it's fun for shows it makes driving the car less entertaining. i plan to compete with it for a year and sell it all as it isn't worth it.

either way good luck.

ND4SPD86

iTrader: (1)

my friend owns an audio shop that is doing my install he put two 118 inch subs in the back of a s10 in box that he made with the exact air space need for the subs

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

i'm gonna run that MA audio 4000 watt X class amp....

you can't knock the x class, i dont' care if you diss the other ones cuz they suck...but this new mono amp is no joke

I think i'm gonna go the explorer route...

then I'm planning on 4 15" resonant engineering SX series...should be in the 150-155 range on the new TL mic..

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

it's not the same in an explorer. why not get an expedition or excursion and really set the standard. i suppose if your just looking to do something as a hobby though then it's a good idea versus the f-body. good luck.

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

i want something that actually gets half way decent gas mileage....

plus its gonna be hard enough getting another vehicle, so I'll definately have to save my penny's to get this explorer and outfited with a system...

you can get alot of cubes out of a wall behind the back seat of an explorer...so I think i'll be set..

Saigon_Bob

iTrader: (2)

do tha math... explorer gets like 20 mpg with the v6.... i kno my pops has one...


add 4 15"s, a box to handle that, amps, batterys, etc.... gas mileage = gone

if you wanna be diff and be heard... 2 18"s has been done in a thirdgen.. fireturd did it

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

lets see some pics, i would love to see that...

it just doesn't seem practical anymore to put a systme in my car, i built it for speed, and now this is just hurting what i built it for..

explorers are nice trucks, it would allow me to get some people in there, so more than 2 people can enjoy the bass....

i'm trying to think of other cars that I can put a wall in..sorry i'm obssessed with walls, i'm gotta get one..

i've looking in to avengers, cavaliers, etc etc....its gotta be under 5,000 bucks, so that kind of limits me...I want something that is just a decent car, that looks pretty good stock, something that I don't need to mess with the body much...i think cavy z24's are pretty good looking cars stock...do you guys have any suggestions??

curtis84ta

and escort wagon.... 5 people can enjoy the wall in the trunk.... or hell any station wagon...

Saigon_Bob

iTrader: (2)

r u serious... a z24 with a wall.....

i like the cavy idea cuz im big into chevy but if you must have bass...... Old school blazer