OutLaw305

what do you guys think of these subs?
http://www.polkaudio.com/car/specs.php?name=gnx104

Boomin Boy

from what ive read those polks are a decent entry level sub...the specs arent anything special though

how does it sound?

OutLaw305

i do like em, one of the reasons i got polk is because ive heard a lot about their quility of sound. I wasnt looking for crazy bass when i got em.. ( but why did i buy 3... cause im 18 ) nothing so deep ya hit the brown note. Just enough to make my presence known. Wish my engine did that for me. O well, summer is just around the corner.

Boomin Boy

ya well its all about if you like it or not....there are people that are quite happy with pyramid products if thats what floats their boat then good for them

my guess is if you're only 18, you'll get addicted to car audio when you hear your first loud system and you'll begin upgrading. Im 19 now and ive been through probably 30 subs and close to 20 amps

AJ_92RS

Very good choice. They seem to be pretty efficient, and can handle a decent amount of power.

As much as people sometimes don't want to believe it, 175 watts continuous is quite a bit of power, and with an SPL of 93 dB @ 1w/1m, that's ~118-119 dB of clean, constant music.

And as long as they please YOUR ears, that's all that matters.

BTW, what amp are you using?

OutLaw305

hahaha, you had to ask!
Right now i got a sony xplode (sigh) 1600 powering the 3. It seems to do a good job, but i feel it is lacking a bit. I was thinkg of tryin to sell it and get an mtx.

AJ_92RS

3???

Those are 4 ohm speakers.

1/4 + 1/4 + 1/4 = 3/4

3/4 = 1.33 ohms

That Sony amp can do that???

I think you either need to loose one of the subs, or get an amp that can handle that low of a load..... like this Kenwood.

200 watts RMS x 1 @ 4 ohms
400 watts RMS x 1 @ 2 ohms
500 watts RMS x 1 @ 1 ohm

OutLaw305

ok because i really dont know about sytems and how power is supposed to divided up and all that jazz... what would i be better of getting in terms of a new amp, or should i say 2 new amps? I really dont know squat bout ohms. Somebody help me out here. What do you mean about 1/4 x 1/4 x 1/4

cronsformula350

Wow, boomin boy your only 19! No offense or anything, but sometimes you respond as if your the goddess of car audio, and you know anything and everything that has to do with car audio. Why did you go through that many subs and amps, and whats the total in money you've wasted on all them? How many have you blown of each? I'm curios, thats all.

Boomin Boy

i went through a lot of subs and amps to test them to see if i liked them or not...i didnt pay for very many of them. Most were used for under two weeks then i moved on

blown subs-ummm ive blown my adire tempest...but i was competing with it so you always try to push the limits. no biggie its still under warranty

total money-oh jeez this is going to be depressing...in 5 or 6 years ive gone through 16 subs and 11 sub amps of my own

subs-2 HSL excursion 12s, 2 JBL decade 10s, CV stroker 12, eclipse aluminum 12s, DDw6.5s, orion hcca 15s, 2 alpine type r 15s at different times, adire tempest, and RE 18HCs

sub amps-4 us amps vlx400s, sony explode xm2100 (i think), earthquake shredder (d2), us acoustics 2100, 2 JBL 1200.1s, PPI 4800, viper 2500d

speakers- the only ones i paid for were some explode 6X9's and my cadence components, ive had good luck buying cars with good speakers in them


speaker amps-us acoustics 4085, kenwood 648s, arc 2100

head units-cheap sony POS, alpine 7893, alpine 7838, some panasonic garbage

made my own rcas, dist blocks, and terminals...and got my 1/0 gauge for free

subs-probably about $4500ish CDN
sub amps-$10800CDN
speakers-$400CDN
speaker amps-$800CDN
head units-$720CDN
wiring-$30CDN


total=$17250

sounds like a big number but its over a span of 5 or 6 years. I know lots of people who spend more than that on performance for their cars, im not really into that

Boomin Boy

i never claimed to be the *** of car audio...if i have any input on a thread ill post it. Ive learned quite a bit in the last few years about the industry through people teaching me. I was a newbie once too. Still pretty much am in the whole scheme of things.

this board seems to be fairly performance bases with less people focusing on car audio. If you want to see some really smart audio people go to termpro forum or caraudioforum

i dont think my age makes any difference as to the quality and the accuracy of my posts

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

I've never heard those subs, but one thing that I like about them is the high sensitivity. So many beginners drop a ton of cash on mega-excursion small-box subs, not realizing that unless you give them 1200 watts each, they just don't get loud. Those polks will work well with modest amounts of power, which is a damned good thing unless you're planning on coughing up the big money for big amps.

subzero

a decent sub for many applications..you certainly could have done much worse..I have heard several pairs of them and they sound pretty decent overall.

ddn69

I hope youve got some of that money back from entering comps, and selling the stuff you didnt like. Plz tell me...Spending 17000 on car audio on not getting anything back would be rediculous.

Nate

FyreLance

Some people get *enjoyment* back.

Boomin Boy

well ive sold a lot of stuff to move on...ive actually never officially competed but ive been metered once the day before a comp. Got 142.2 @ 27hz out of a trunk with a big ported box and only 400 watts.

as FyreLance said, some people get enjoyment back from car audio...i havent built an all out competition setup yet. I wouldnt even consider the setup im working on now an all out competition setup.

go down to the drag strip and there are people spending hundreds of thousands on their cars and they rarely get anything back other than a quarter mile time

cronsformula350

yes thats a good point too. One could spend far lass than 17,000 on a system, just by researching the speaker components and seeing how they work in other peoples cars. Rather than testing a bunch of woofers/amps and shelving them. I spent just over 600$ on my cav stereo and running 560 watts rms, and it sounds amazing, the previous owner of my firebird spent over 1100$ on that stereo and is running 75 watts rms into infinity kappas and in SQ my cav and Formula stereo is the same, except the bass in the cav would destroy the Formulas.

I agree with the fact that you don't need to spend mucho dinero on subs and amps to have tons of bass, thats silly and for people that have lots of money to waste.

Boomin Boy

im not saying that my current system is worth $17k but thats what ive spent all together...i would install a setup in my cars, run it for a while, get tired of it, and sell it to put money towards a new setup.

Ive researched everything ive ever bought, even the explode 6X9's when i was 14...mind you i didnt understand the difference between max and rms wattages so i considered paying $70 for 150 watt speakers a steal

AJ_92RS

When running two subs, or even 4, it's simple math to find out the resistance (aka impedance).

If you have two 4 ohm subs and wire them in parallel (“+” to “+” and “-” to “-”) you just divide the resistance by 2.

4 ÷ 2 = 2 ohms

If you run them in series ( “+” of #1 to the amp, then the “-” of #1 to “+” of #2, then “-“ of the #2 back to “-“ on the amp) you just add the two.

4 + 4 = 8 ohms

If you want to run four 4 ohm subs, you can do a series/parallel configuration to keep the resistance at 4 ohms at the amp. Too difficult to describe in words.

But when you have an odd number of subs in parrallel, the only way to correctly find the resistance is to use this formula (I’ll right it down since we can’t use fractions on this site.)

1 over “x”, plus 1 over “x”, plus 1 over “x”, equals 1 over “x”

But it really looks like the pic I attached.

So you add.... 1/4 + 1/4 + 1/4 = 3/4 or .75
But since you divided 1 by the number of ohms, you have to divide 1 by the sum also.

1 ÷ .75 = 1.33----

That’s the resistance the amp sees.

Here's the pic of the formula...

Boomin Boy

i say run your subs in parallel off of a JBL 600.1

AJ_92RS

You just proved your idiosyncrasy right there

Is that amp stable down to 1.33 ohms impedance???

No.

I’ve read other threads of yours and have come to the conclusion that you’re the typical “know it all - teenager”. STFU unless you are really trying to help people. Showing the size of your ********* is only good for people who want to break their back windows with gobs of bass. It doesn't help someone who's only looking for a good, reliable system.

Boomin Boy

maybe when you have some experience with the product you should comment...i suggest you email JBL directly and ask them if the 300.1, 600.1 and 1200.1 can handle 1 ohm loads

thanks for comin out

Boomin Boy

you seem to be a bit embarrassed so ill do the work for you

manual from a JBL 1200.1 sitting right in front of me

"BP150.1, BP300.1, BP600.1, BP1200.1

...The total impedence of the speaker systems connected to a BP series amplifier must be atleast 1 ohm."

cronsformula350

High sensitivity levels also mean that there going to be more efficient, and play louder at lower volume levels! That is one benefit to running a ported box/bandpass. When you have a vented box, the bass is louder at lower power levels than a sealed box. That is partially why when you build a box for a woofer, you want to run a woofer with a magnet of at least 40 oz to work well in a sealed box, now if it was a vented box you could get away with a smaller magnet woofer, because it doesn't have to work as hard to move the air.

There are also these things called Scan-Speak Aperiodic vents, that help reduce the amount of maximum impedence in sealed boxes by at least 50%. Which results in clearer, better defined bass with more amplifier power and woofer control into the lower frequencies.

TomP

I've gotten the same impression. Any brand that isn't ultra-competition-level turns out to be either cheap or entry-level. I certainly wouldn't be comparing Polk to Pyramid, that's for sure.

Boomin Boy

magnet size means nothing for woofer performance...its the motor structure that you want to look at

some pyramids have pretty large magnets

FyreLance

Agreed

cronsformula350

Magnet size has alot to do with how a woofer performs, motor structure is important too, but you need both to perform. Passive radiators use a motor structure and they don't prodcuce bass. A magnet is needed to produce bass. A strong magnet is important in making the driver perform well and make strong bass, put a 20 0z magnet woofer in a sealed box designed for a woofer with a 78oz magnet and see how it performs, then tell me that magnet size doesn't matter.

I beg to differ.

Boomin Boy

well obviously there has to be enough magnet to backup the motor strength...a 20oz magnet wont work on a 2000 watt sub but many subs out there have magnets much to large that can actually hurt their performance. Motor structure is much more important than magnet size


http://www.caraudioforum.com/showthr...ht=magnet+size

ive never heard about designing a sealed enclosure around how much the magnet ways that doesnt make much sense to me. It would make sense, however, that subs that perform better in large ported boxes are those with strong motor structures because there is less pressure inside the box to be released; more has to be done by the woofer itself

AJ_92RS

Embarrased?? Hardly. I just had to go pick up my son from school. I do have a life other than producing 150 dB.

And yes, you're right, it does say that. The thing is, I didn't say it would blow up. I said it's not stable.

How do I know? Show me an estimated output at 1 ohm. They don't show one. Don't they have enough confidence to show the wattage or THD% at 1 ohm???

And you're also right about me not having experience with JBL. I've never had enough confidence in them to buy anything of theirs based on what I've heard with my own ears.

I guess part of the problem is I just got done reading a few of your other posts, and your view is narrow.

Boomin Boy

those JBL amps will run forever at 1 ohm load without any problems...as for why they dont have any specs at 1 ohm i do not know

how is my view narrow?

AJ_92RS

Need I say more?

OutLaw305

Guys everything on this site doesnt have to end up in people flaming each other...

before this gets to far and my thread gets locked up...


Aj,
thanks for that post about the resitances. I understand the hwo the formula works now, but remember your talking to somebody that doesnt really undestand how the ohms come into play. So im runnin 1.33 ohms into my amp or out of my amp? And how does that play into the power of my subs? Would i be better off having 2 amps so that the work could be split up or can i do it using one amp? Because of the 1.33 ohms, i take it it means little resistance?, does that mean the amp couldnt handle it? i am really confused there.

I know theres a lot to answer here and thanks for all of your guys help ( i mean everybody ) and hopefully someone besides me can benifit from this post.

Boomin Boy

the lower impedence the more power most amps will put out...if you buy a single amp that will run above 1 ohm you'll have no problems

running 2 smaller amps will be harder on your electrical system and make setting your gains more difficult

OutLaw305

ok that settles that. So then, how many watts should i be looking at for the 3 subs? my 1600 xplode ( erg... d*mn xplode ) seems to do ok, but im guessing its a little underpowered?

Boomin Boy

175X3=525watts of course it wouldnt hurt to buy an amp that puts out more than that so you can upgrade in the future

OutLaw305

so wait, if im putting out 1600 watts on that xplode amp.. should i be fine? or would the resistance not be good for that amp?

Boomin Boy

i dont think any explode product will put out 1600 watts...whats the model number on the amp?

OutLaw305

maybe im mistaken, its a sony 1600. i guess that not the watts ( heh, what a newbie mistake ) if you need any other info ill have to look it up online, im off at college and wont be home for another week

Boomin Boy

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...category=18797
is this it??

that thing is supposed to put out 1000rms @2ohms...but isnt stable any lower. I doubt it puts out rated power too.

i hate to say it but you would probably have to buy a new amp for this setup

600 true clean watts is better than 1000 overrated dirty watts with the amp shutting off going into protection after 10 minutes.

if you used your current amp, it would probably get quite hot to the touch, go into protection mode because its being run under its recommended impedence level, and it might even blow the whole amp.

mind you in the past i had an explode amp and ran it at 1/4 ohm for a long time when it was only 2 ohm stable and it lasted for a while until it blew

OutLaw305

yeah thats the one... kinda misleading that it says 1600w. grr. Can you give me a few good example of an amp that would really let this system shine?

Boomin Boy

well whats your price range?? the JBL is pretty much the best deal you'll find....you can get better quality amps but the price goes up real fast

OutLaw305

wow, hrm... didnt even think about money, ha. im guessing i wanna go in a 300 give or take range

Boomin Boy

you wont have to spend nearly that much to power those subs

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=18797

this is a pretty good deal though, many competitors used this amps at world finals this year. a very cheap source of power. Might look a bit off if your car isnt red though

AJ_92RS

Visonik is complete junk. I found out the hard way.

I gave you the link to that Kenwood amp earlier. It's $200 and Kenwood has a long standing name in durability.

Evidently you missed the link so here it is again. And you don't have to worry about getting punk'd by some zit face on Egay

http://www.nowonsale.com/ppf/pCatID/...D/itempage.asp

BTW, just so you know what a good price that is, here it is on another "well known" site.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-7vKmhUW...p?i=113KAC8151

OutLaw305

i saw that kenwood in a Mickey Shore by me ( a local car audio store... ) and for 199, thats a hell of a deal. Thanks a lot guys. i think im going to go with that amp. Anybody got anything else before i go ahead n do that?

cronsformula350

Finally, you understand what I'm talking about boomin boy!

Boomin Boy

visonik has a couple world records under their belt in the last few years...thats something that kenwood has never had

AJ_92RS

Pulling out those ********* again.

Do you ever shut up?!?!?!

Kenwood doesn't HAVE to prove themselves by winning some "we can make our products damage your ears even more" award.

They're a strong company that builds quality products.

OutLaw305

boomin boy,

have you ever used a visonik amp? after lookin at specs and all else, i think that visonik would be the better choice. heck, for all it can do more, 20 bucks is nothing