1fastformula

I was looking at some amp upgrades (since Sony does not sit well with most ) and these two names I am looking at very hard. I have these: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-sRDeLHh...x=9&IMAGE4.y=4

and these:http://www.crutchfield.com/S-sRDeLHh...=32&IMAGE4.y=5

Now granted I will buying these off of ebay, because the prices at Crutchfield is just wayyyyyyy too much.

Give me some input!!!

Later

Polecat

Are you looking for two amps?? Because you have a two channel adn a 4 channel comparison.

92MaroRS

also what are you going to power with them? me personally i would take the kickers.

demicon

I would go with the kicker products in this case as well.

I am personally not a fan of that generation of rockford product.

I find the kicker product to be more asthetically pleasing as well.

Boomin Boy

i agree...the kicker is a much better quality amp in every way

ctimm_rs

I'd deffinaitly go with Kicker. They make much higher quality products than Rockford Fosgate. Also, check out Alpine's MRV-F540 four channel amp.

JamFitz

Sorry but i have to laff at that comment. Rockky is the one if you want proper sounds.

JAmes

9177

Kicker

92MaroRS

compare the input voltage on them the RF's are 14.4 which is at the high end of what a cars charging system can put out. now look at the kickers they are tested at 13.8 which is quite normal for a cars charging system. test that RF at the 13.8 like the kickers and im willing to bet the kicker will out perform the RF in every single way. RF is starting to go downhill and have been for a few years. they are becoming like sony. also kickers are always underrated so they are putting out a good 50-75 watts more(total)

Justins86bird

I'd go with Kicker over RF.

JamFitz

I have 2 rockford amps. Both have been tested at 14.4 volts and one puts out 100watts RMS more than what is stated on the box. The other is a different type and puts out 30watts RMS more. So when the car comes down to 13.8 volts, well if you think about it then its going to put out the power that you would expect it to. And also there are watts and there are watts. The rocky in one case is cheaper and more powerful, in the other case its chaper and not as powerful. the rocky comes with 2 year warrenty, has better cross-over frequencys and a much more refined high/low pass slopes.

And also the power indicator is a wicked blue Roccky badge on top of the amp that lights up.

Over here in the UK Kicker stuff is laughed at by all the real pro audio guys.

JAmes

9177

Maybe who you talk to but the few people I know that compete from the UK sure don't have RF. Definatly not saying Kicker is the best but sure beats anything made by RF in the last 2 years.

JamFitz

Any of the people that are really going for it will use JL, Genisis, the top end Pheonix gold stuff or the Team RF stuff, but probably not the normal RF stuff. But there really arent that many people who are really going for it in the UK.

JAmes

Boomin Boy

not sure about the UK, but europe in general has many brands that we've never heard of on this side of the world and they're hitting some really high numbers with their setups. Im not sure if its the mics they use, or just the fact that they're that good.

92MaroRS

your RF only put out 100 watts more. sucks to be you. my kicker puts out over 200 watts more than what its says and that is at 13.8. bumb that up to 14.4 and it would crush your RF. RF stuff for the last 2-3 years has just plain SUCKED.

92MaroRS

then thye haven't heard of the SoloX. ive heard one 18" SoloX in a ported box. it was a hell of alot louder and cleaner than some of the Multi sub 18" set ups i have heard.

demicon

This is kind of the point I was trying to get at. Normally, I am completely pro-rockford.

Thats why I said I was not a fan of this particular generation of rockford equipment.

Over the last couple years, for some reason, Rockford has shown that is seems to want to sell a name brand rather than a quality product. Simply comparing rockford equipment from 4 years ago to the rockford equipment now will show what I mean.

Kicker seems to have always stayed the same for quality. At least that is what I have been lead to believe.

Again, as always, there is the high end and low end product for any company.

It simply seems that nowadays, Rockford's low end and high end equipment are not so far apart anymore.

Plus I personally think this latest incarnation from rockford is quite ugly.

:lala:

Kj Rockz

umm Rockfords all the way if not get Xtant.

aaron7

iTrader: (7)

I'd go Kicker. Solobarics kick ***!!

subzero

kicker choice here too

Polecat

over here in the US, they have the new B&K World record by over 9 db...

AJ_92RS

If we're done with the "my dad can beat up your dad" contest, I'll elaborate a little.

The Power series is still pretty respectable. Not as much as the RF stuff from over 5 yrs ago, but respectable none the less. Much better than the Punch crap I've seen lately.

Look at the IMPORTANT specs besides voltage. Come on people. We're talking .6 volts difference. That's nothing compared to the 11.6 RF used to use.

RF uses a slightly lower THD% then Kicker in their rating. Not a huge diff, but still.

RF has a better S/N ratio. That means it uses the input signal just a wee-bit more.

Kicker has 5 watts more output withing the same Freq range. Whoop-dee-do.

RF uses an internal 24 db slope on the crossovers, both low and high. That's A LOT. 12 db is considered good, but 24 dB /octave? That's great.

Bass boost --- who gives a rat's ***???

The RF is slightly smaller. Maybe not important unless you're looking to install it in a tight hole (take that how you want).

And the RF has a 2yr warranty on parts AND LABOR!!! That's unreal. Notice Kicker has only 1 yr AND a cute little abstrict next to it. I wonder what that means?

Overall, I say RF wins. I would save the $50 and get better specs that are IMPORTANT. But that's just me.

92MaroRS

your right with the ones that arnt listed above but those that are listed i have a few questions. there crossover. what style is it. i know kicker uses butterworth, linkwitz-riley slopes, etc.


the RF might be smaller but then again the more compact you make it the harder it is to keep cool.

yes RF has a 2yr warranty BUT you can get a 3yr with kicker if you have a professional installer say they installed it. for some that may be a problem but for alot of people. you can just have a buddy that works at a local audio shop say they did it. or even have them help.

Polecat

astrik means if installed by dealer, and yes you can get a 3 year warranty. 12,14 and 18db boost will suffice on any sub.

Power is power, no 5 watts can seperate any amp.
And the Kicker can have a smaller footprint without the shroud, plus it does come free with a remote gain and built in fans as well, and can easily be modified to handle a 16v input signal.
The new 2004 KX's have way better S/N ratio than the previous years ZR's, which were notorious for their SQ ability.

AJ_92RS

Here they come.

"Yes" with an "IF", and "No" with a "but".

Polecat

facts.....they are called facts.

I work for Kicker and have for the last 15 years, Kicker facts I am aware of.

AJ_92RS

And this one isn't either, BUT it isn't the series he's looking to by, SO WHAT DOES IT MATTER?!?!

92MaroRS

well ifs and buts are just part of life so get use to it. personally i feel the kicker products of now are constructed with higher quality parts as it seems RF has sold out

Justins86bird

The 2002 RF Power amps used to have a 3 year warranty. 2003 models drop it to 2.

92MaroRS

maybe because they had to many come back???

Polecat

just comparing amps, no dad's involved.

with all amps so low, this point is meaningless...that low of THD on either will never, ever be heard.

if neither is never heard, point is also meaningless

true, 5 watts will never be heard

alot of manufactures use 12,18 and 24db... so one may be betetr for you, but another octave may be better for another install....

with the Kicker shroud on, with the shroud off, a different comparison

now you know what the astrik means, and you can get three years...that's all i was stating to clear up the mis-information.

true, works best for you, some will differ.

Just clearing up some facts, and yes both are good amps...each person just needs to define what suits their particular needs best.

AJ_92RS

Polecat,

By telling me "never be heard" about all the things that I pointed out where the RF is better than the Kicker (only talking about the ones in the links... you know, apples-to-apples), you have a "defense" for.

It's like building an engine. If doing this is worth 5hp, and that is worth 10, and porting these is worth 10 HP, ditching that is worth 5 hp... etc.

Each of those is not a big gain, but add them up and you're talking 30 HP!!

Just admit it. Those specs are all better, in every respect. The only two are passive are the 5 watts and the size. But those are relevant to the car being used, more so as far as size goes.

Anyway..... show me one feature or specification on the Kicker amps that's better than the RF that's worth $50.

The warrant is a wash because ordering them from a place like Ebay or Crutchfield would not be considered "installed by a professional". Stop trying to use that as a fair comparison, because it isn't. Plus it's more money you have to pay the pro to install it.

I challenge you to show me 1 feature that's better about those Kicker amps that's worth $50 more.

Polecat

apples to apples test, prove where you can hear a 12bd over a 16db slope change? Can you hear 5 more watts, no...and I never stated Kicker was better, just clearing the facts that the Kicker is a fair comparison against the Kicker. No where did I say the Kicker was better.
A $50 difference, that is solely dependant by each dealer. As as far as warranty, I guess you could always go to Circuit City and have a RF exchanged.

Pay a pro now, for either, or pay later.

SN ratio and THD are out the door IMHO, as you cannot hear them, or really the db slope for a faster rise.

and for $50, some customers might like a remote gain, a built in fan for cooling, and speaker level imputs if you still have a stock HU with no RCA's...............worth $50 in my book.

Boomin Boy

kicker has much better customer service..have you ever tried contacting rockford directly. it takes forever

AJ_92RS

Nope. I never needed to.

But 4MULA88 has. AAMOF, he sent his Kicker amp to them to have it fixed, got it back 2 months later, and it's still doing the same thing.

Kinda gave me a bad taste in my mouth for Kicker amps.

Their subs are good though. I will give them that.

Polecat

not to change the subject, but after each amp is repaired, it's then again bench tested...is he sure it's not something else?

AJ_92RS

We're talking 12 dB over 24 dB. There's an audible difference there.

Quote:

Can you hear 5 more watts, no...

You keep bringing that up, but in my first post I said "Whoop-dee-do". What's that mean???

Uh... what?

You never said it DIRECTLY, but you keep implying it.

I was only comparing the links he gave. Even so, that's gonna be about the average everywhere.

See. I didn't know you could do that. I learned something.


Uh..... what? Maybe you don't understand that with RF, you don't HAVE to have a pro install it to get the 2 yr warranty.


I'll agree about the THD, which is why I said "Not a huge diff, but still." And if you can't hear a diff between 100 dB and 95 dB of sensitivity, then you're tone deaf.

Good point, I guess.

If they made the heat sinks larger, they wouldn't need it

That's a good point, if you're dumb enough to do that.
I guess it's settled then.

Polecat

each car will vary if it needs, or wants a 12, 16 or24db...simply put, listener wanting the difference.

Let's say we had a 100hz LP filter.
12dB/octave LP filter:
at 100hz, it is attenuated 0dB.
At 200hz, it is attenuated 12dB.
At 400hz, it is attenuated 24dB.
At 800hz, it is attenuated 36dB.
Etc.
24dB/octave LP filter:
at 100hz, it is attenuated 0dB.
At 200hz, it is attenuated 24dB.
At 400hz, it is attenuated 48dB.
At 800hz, it is attenuated 72dB.
Etc.

The 24dB/octave attenuates the higher frequencies off twice as steeply.

Now, most amplifiers don't have "crossovers" in them, they have simple filters built into them... either HP or LP.
The use of the word "crossover" is a misnomer in this case.

And with respect to that, there aren't as many sound quality issues.
You aren't concerned as much with the slope types, how they combine, what sort of frequency or phase combination would result.. it's just one filter, not the combination of two.

So, your primary concern is the rate of attenuation... and generally, the steeper, the better.

Now I did not imply we were the better amp, but like I've said pretty simple they do compare nicely to eachother...and for the remote, built in fan( so every manufacture that has fans has terrible heat transfer :rolleyes) not all installs are perfect and get the cooling they need.

and on the manufactures end, you'd be amazed how many people still use factory HU's, or are to 'budget' minded to get a converter, which can add to an amps price tag if it doesn't come equipped to do so.


I guess we can agree to disagree...which I am always fine with.