I need some advice. I listen mostly to rock and metal, and I can't turn it up to loud with out getting distortion. What do I need to do to get rid of it? Can I just amp my current speakers, or should I also get a sub? My HU is a Pioneer DEH-P44, 50Wx4, speakers are: front, Pioneer TS-A4657 4"X6", 2-20 watts rms, 100w peak, rear, Pioneer TS-A6975 2-40w rms, peak power 220w. What amp/amp sub combo would you recomend? Even if I don't NEED a sub, I may add one at a later time. This is in an 87 Formula and I've got alot of other things I need to do to the car, so the stereo is getting whatever is left of the budget. So, the less expensive, the better. Thanks.

 

Run the front four speakers off the HU, and get a sub/amp...look at an inexspensive amp that puts out good power, and a woofer that will work in a ported box. With smaller power, a ported box will be louder than sealed.

 

yeah i also was just planning on going with an amp/sub combo..

i was thinking like some 150 - 200 dollar amp from circuit city, and just run one 10 inch sub in an enclosure (another 150 bucks) that will fit right into the trunk well with no problem..

 

Mdformula350, that's kinda what I was leaning towards also.

 

get inexpensive--not cheap. check out jbl's power series amps at ikesound.com, for $200 you can get a 600-watt amp, or for $150 you can get a 300-watt...

 

a sub is always a good idea, the only problem in your case is that you are unhappy with the sound of your current setup. adding a sub that sounds good wont fix the speakers that don't sound good. the best thing for you to do now is to relieve the front and rear speakers of the sub frequencies wich is probably causing your distortion. turn any bass conrol level on that HU all the way down. then turn it up as loud as it can until you hear distortion, then turn it back a little. then slowly turn the bass up as much as you can without distortion. you could add a four channel amp and hook it up to your front and rear speakers and use the built in crossover to cut the lows out, or just use passive inline crossovers on each speaker.

I listen to the same type of music and I would much prefer to run an amp to each speaker, it doesn't have to be cranked up as loud and it's easier on your ears. if the acoustics are right.
I can give you a good recipie for lots of bass without subs...and it sounds good too!! if you trust yourself with I jig-saw, you can cut holes in the cargo pit cover and relocate the rear speakers there. don't put subs in that thing, just 6x9"s or something. I did that with Kenwood cheapie $50 speakers and an alpine V12 75x2 amp....the reflection from the window and the cavity underneath provide perfect acoustics. it seems like it would be ghetto, but sounds 10 times better than they did in the sail panels. I later upgraded to some $150 infintiy 6x9s, with directional tweeters but not as good bass response as the $50 kenwoods! the amp was set at 100Hz high pass, it sounded better with the rears relieved from the <100Hz frequencies than it did full range...less bass to deal with, so they could actually provide some bass reproduction...enough to feel in the floor and steering wheel! before that I had them powered only from my alpine HU,they sounded good even then. do this, I promise it sounds good, if your looking for better quality sound and don't wish to spend too much money. once you get your entire system balanced out, you can justify adding a sub.

I eventually added 2 12" subs powered by a 500 watt JL Audio mono amp......by the time I did that, I could turn the volume all the way up to the last number without any distortion, very loud however, this wasn't done very often! my HU went up to 35 VOL, I could easilly drown out road noise with the Ts off on the highway with the VOL turned to 18...that's what amps do for you!

 

In my opinion, if all you are going to listen to is metal and stuff like that. I would not think a sub is necessary for that. You can get alot of sound out of the 6X9's. But, if you do want to go ahead and go with the sub, I would invest in a crossover. That way you can make sure only the tones you want to come out of each speaker will come out of that speaker. Some amps have built in crossover's, but I don't think they are as good as the unit itself.

 

all rumor, anyone who says these kinds of things doesn't listen to the music you are listening to. the only stuff that doesn't need a sub is talk radio. every kind of music has bass!! like pantera, that's a good example, wether or not it's your cup of tea as far as "metal" goes, you can not deny the bass!

here is a short list of bands that can undoubtedly shake any subs:

slipknot, smashing pumpkins, soulfly, prong, metallica,hemet.......to name just a few.....some of these songs will blow the speakers out if they can't handle the bass.

 

I didn't say a sub wouldn't be nice. Yes I do listen to all of those bands you mentioned with ACDC being my favorite band ever. All I meant is I think he can get the sound he wants without having to buy an expensive sub. There are alot of speakers out there that will handle that kind of bass, but if you really want it to thump, then yah you need a sub.

 

Iwould say to run the front 4 speakers of the hu and either 1x12inch jl w7 sub or 2x12 jl w5s and a rockford fosgate amp.

 

Dug this up from a search.. but I had to comment on it....

I wonder if he means.. metal... like you mentioned ... or Metal like ... metal metal. Black metal doesnt need subs. Esp some of the older stuffs by Immortal, Burzum, Amon Amarth, At The Gates, Bathory... etc etc. I never miss a sub listening to that stuff. Ever. Matter of fact I'm sitting here jamming to Immortal's 'Grim and Frostbitten Kingdoms' with my bare foot on my sub box next to my computer... slim to no vibration.


-Bud

 

Ahem. children of bodom is awesome...Anyway back on subject. Subs arent gonna cure your distortion. An amp for the speakers will make them sound better. Also fiberglassing the panels and making custom enclosures will also help. A really good head unit will make it sound better also. My alpine mp3 3 pre outs sounds awesome. You can fine tune all kinds of stuff.

Id suggest amps for your speakers, maybe fiberglassing the sail panels, and careful tuning.

If you want some extra bass go for subs. But for rock subs are needed less.

Nate

 

Adding a sub can help improve the sound of your other speakers IF (big "if" here) you can filter the bass out of the other speakers. Once you relieve your coaxes from all that exursion, their output abilities go way up for all other frequencies. If your head unit has an internal high-pass filter, that's best to use. If not, slap a capacitor (experiment with values around 400uf) on the coaxes to filter some of the bass.

 

My Sony VX V1620's I found in my dash have 50uf capacitors. Since I got twin 12" MTX Thunder 4000's going in (probably on Volfenhag ZX-7160 1000watt amp), they should sound better? I hear sony's aren't so great. They're 6.5" 3-ways.

 

To add to what Jim mentioned, if you use a cap (Bass blocker) the internal amp would not be working as hard to put out the lows. This means that the internal amp will not be drawling as much current, which means there will be less internal voltage drop to the internal amp, which means more voltage at the internal amp, which means it can do its job better.
I have too much experience with the DEH-P44/P4400 and can tell you that there is a good chance that MOST of the distortion is coming from the HU it self and not the speakers. If you’re using the “powerful” EQ setting with the loud contour on you’re probably only getting 9-10VDC at the internal amp under load (it needs a full 12Vdc to work at it best).
I’d be willing to bet that you will see a BIG improvement by taking away the load of the lower frequencies from the internal amp and adding a sub with an amp. (Read: Do what Jim said!)
You’d also see a big improvement be stepping up to a new HU, some thing like a 6 series Pioneer (DEH-P65, -P650, -P6500, DEH-P66, -P660, -P6600. See a pattern?) They seem to be the best compromise between cost and SQ. The 4 series radios seem have a lot of internal voltage drop to the amp IC.

The BIG question, do you see the display on the HU dim when the base “hits”? This would be a good sign that you are over working the internal amp and Jim’s suggestion would help.

 

Sony speakers aren't very good, but neither is a Volfenhag amp, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Anyway, the 50uF cap is probably wired just to the "midrange" of those sony 3 ways, because with a typical 4 ohm load, the 50uf cap will provide approximately a 700hz crossover frequency. It's not likely that the cap is in-line with the 6.5" bass driver. You will still benefit from the 400uf cap in line with the entire speaker.

 

I believe that Pioneer deck you have has a built in crossover for the speaker leads and the subwoofers pre-out.

As for a decent setup, it has been said time and time again that those 4X6 speakers have crappy sound. I just recently completed my kick pannels which are designed to hold a 6.5" speaker and a 1" Tweeter. They are installed with some nice Pioneer Component speakers. Now I listen to metal alot with my fav band being Manowar. The sound that comes out of these speaks is AWESOME!. I do also have a subwoofer...actually I have 2 10" Pioneer Premier 1200watt subs with 2 1000watt Kenwood Amps powering them. I also have a 600watt 4 channel Kenwood amp that powers all 4 speakers. The clarity coming out of the speakers is amazing.

If a subwoofer is not the plan then invest in a decent 4 channel amp. Cleaner power going to the speakers will give you a better quality sound and low to no distortion at high volumes.