SouthSideGoons

Come on??? 60 grand for a 1991 Z28?? Yea it looks like a 1LE, yea it has only 87 miles. But 60 freaking grand? Some of you third gen guys must think that 1LE's are 1969 ZL1 Camaro's or COPO's which they are not! 60G for this?? No way!! Here is the link http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...eadExists=true


P.S. Now here is a 1995 1LE Z28 w/ only 39 miles on it for $35k.... I think it's obvious which one is overpriced and it's not the 1995 model!! http://www.camaros.net/classifieds/s...t=21652&cat=17

IROCZJEFF

iTrader: (1)

I hope these 1LE's continue to go up in price much like the original 69 ZL1's! These were factory built race cars and they deserve the right to be valuable collector cars such as the ZL1's, and COPO's. If you look at history it has a funny way of repeating itself. I would not pay $60,000 now but wait and you will see them be worth $100,000 plus!!! I bought an original 32,000 mile 1991 1LE 5-speed two years ago with all the original paper work and window sticker etc for $7,000. I have seen that same car go for between $15,000 and $20,000. I enjoy the car and have no desire to sell it.

dj's B4C

$50,000 of the cost is due to the "atomatic" transmission.
Those things aren't cheap ya know!

1992 Z-28

Actually the 1LEs are like COPO Camaro.I ordered one back in 1992 and order was cancelled once before I recived the OK.Other customers orders were cancelled up to three times before being accepted.GM DID NOT want the public to have these camaros.There were no advertisements but only articles in car magazines.I have a 1989,1991 & 1992 1LE. The 1991 has 65,000 miles and was just reappraised, went up $2,500! There time will come in the near future.

85irocz355tpi

Lets face it we are all biased towards one thing or another. I love the Third Gens and I feel they have gotten a bad rap. Let's face it every one loves the First Gens and people even Love the 79-81 Camaro's and firebirds. But everyone thinks the Third Gens are crap. Which is funny since the 89 Iroc-z's with the TPI 350 can beat almost any stock camaro since 72. Out handles any previous camaro and is still competitive today. Has great looks and started the rebirth in performance. We need to start giving these cars some cred. If there are people who can find a way to love the mustang II and the Pinto why not let the third gens alone. I understand I might have went a little off track here but it is only because I hate seeing these cars taking a bad rap. They are excellent cars even today and if it isn't quick enough for you just remember that the small block chevy has the most performance parts available for it than any other motor in history. And it don't take much for them to run 13's or even 12's for very little money. I say they probably want a little to much for it but these cars a rare and rarity is part of what makes a car valuable.

avro206

I fail to see how 1LE is in way like COPO cars. They had different ENGINES (all aluminum BTW) then other Camaros.

The cost of the engine--doubled the price of the car.

subroc

iTrader: (2)

Only ZL1 copos had the all aluminum 427. That was only about 37 total (forget the exact # but thats close). Others had the normal iron 427.

SouthSideGoons

actually there were 69 427 ZL1 Camaro's made in 1969 w/ the all aluminum block. COPO got you a 427 and there a little over 200 of the iron block COPO's made. The COPO 9560 option got you the ZL-1 engine. See the link below.

http://www.camaros.org/copo.shtml

1992 Z-28

The COPO and 1LE are alike in these ways:
Performace camaros
GM did not advertise these packages
Did not have factory bages that advertised COPO or 1LE
Low production numbers: 1967 54 units, 1968 68 units, 1969 201-199 units other dealer orders 692 aprox 1015 COPO camaros
1988 4-8 units,1989 111 units, 1990 62 units,1991 478 units & 1992 705 units.Aprox 1364 3rd gen 1LEs.
The 1969 was a great straight line performer, the 1LEs have better braking,handling & reliability. I still appreciate all camaros but always low production figures plus performace equals greater collectibility.

85irocz355tpi

A-Men Brother!

Brisk

iTrader: (25)

I remember this car.. it sold at the Barrett Jackson auction and this dealership bought it to resell it for profit. A thirdgen member (or mod?) works at that dealership, sickness91z28 (or something similar).

soundwavesk3

I HOPE THE 1LE KEEPS GOING UP. I HAVE THE 1990 WITH UNDER 60K. GOT THE 91 WITH ALOT OF MILES 120K AND THE 92 PURPLE HAZE RIGHT AT 98K WITH A BLOWN MOTOR. HOW MUCH YOU GUYS THINK THEY ARE WORTH TODAY? IT IS UP TO THE COLLECTOR REALLY. CARS ARE ONLY WORTH WHAT SOMEONE WILL PAY YOU!! I saw the 1986 1LE prototype (allegedly) with no vin sitting in a field for 65k!!! was supposed to be legit but you never know. If so that piece of crap car is worth more than ALL of ours combined. We should just all enjoy our cars.

bigarmzz

i dont personally see what all the "hubbub" is about the 1LE's.....radio delete (big deal), bigger sway bars (again, big deal)..blah blah blah

now if the things came with like 80hp more than stock or more, mabye

GM should have made a third gen with a cowl hood, and the 454 (same one as in the 454ss...now that would have been a copo equivalent)

....but...i dunno, whatever

1992 Z-28

Actually all1LEs DID NOT have radio delete.some who ordered the cars for racing would delete the radios.Customers had a choice of radio delete,AM/FM radio, AM/FM Radio w/ cassette or CD player.

As for just bigger suspension that is false, it had more.It had much more.Corvette front discs,bigger sway bar, aluminum driveshaft, aluminum spare wheel, gas tank baffle & calibrated shocks.Even the 5spd had a different ratio for 5th so you could pass a little easier.

Also these camaros were very light & yes they did have a slight horsepower increase.
Everyone has there favorites.If someone collects 1LEs or z28s, corvettes or turbo regals it does not matter. As long as they enjoy them!

bigarmzz

yeah i know...i had one several years ago....i didnt then, nor now see the big deal, but thats just me

i've always favored the iroc's, specially the 350 iroc's, but like you said, its all about the model's that you favor

Sickness91Z28

iTrader: (1)

I work at that dealership. We also have a 1969 Camaro COPO (central office production order) with only 57 original miles...the only 1969 COPO Camaro every produced...white with red interior. Just restored it. Said to be worth 2.5 million. We also have a 1969 ZL1 Camaro...all aluminum 427....mean as hell, black with red interior.

bama boy

I LIKE ALL THE CAMAROS, HAVE ONE OF EACH GEN. BUT TO COMPARE A 1LE TO A COPO, COME ON GUYS. A 427 COMPARED TO A 305, OR 350 WITH A SUSPENSION PACKAGE .

1992 Z-28

You are right. A 427 back in 69 had twice as much horsepower as the third gen. but as the value,low production figures & goodies make them alike.I too have owned all gen camaros but the first gen.Always wanted first gen WAY too expensive for the camaro I would want.
Long story short my 92 1LE could smoke my 97 ss LT4 off the line with more torque and 500 pounds lighter!

ryan91rs

iTrader: (1)

I love the F body but like someone said what ever floats your boat. If a Grand National or Turbo Buick came my way I would sell my camaro in a heart beat. Heck if i was short 500 bucks i would crush it to buy a GN heck even a mint black 88 ss Monte.

sorry but full frame, good looks and power equals my dream car

But on the other side the 1LE craze is getting old. 90% of things labeled 1LE are not even that. And if they are the price is triple.

1LE = too much hype

Fldopp16

Bigtime whatev in this direction man. One of the reasons I can't stand buying and selling these things is because of the type of people who sell them, and what they expect for their ho-hum cars with a handful of unique selling points that are supposedly worth thousands of dollars.

1LE or not, it's still a Camaro. It's not a Ferrari, it's almost a vette, but it's certainly nothing more than a Camaro. AFFORDABLE performance cars these things are. Even 1LEs make embarassingly low HP ratings next to one of today's performance vehicles. For that kind of money, you could score something that is truly worth your hard earned cash. I love thirdgens. I drive them almost exclusively. I spend much (too much) of my time trying to restore these cars to their former glory, and far be it for me to disrespect them; but they aren't worth 60k. They aren't even worth 20k. I don't care what they are, or what stupid factory stamp they have. I hope that jerk selling that car gets angry and indignant with everyone who tells him that his 1LE isn't worth what he THINKS it is, and that he's either really arrogant, or just ignorant to how real business works.

Look at this: http://cleveland.craigslist.org/car/650528205.html

That is a Ferrari for sale in my area. A Ferrari for 25k. I doubt but maybe 2 or 3 of us have even had the priviledge of coming NEAR a Ferrari, much less actually drive one. Ferrari's are feats of engineering, and this guy wants only 25k for his, whereas Jerk McDipshit thinks his crappy 80's American smog car is worth enough to pay off his house.

A message to anyone who thinks their thirdgen will fetch any more than $30,000 without gold-plated fenders: Go to hell.

Fldopp16

Bigtime whatev in this direction man. One of the reasons I can't stand buying and selling these things is because of the type of people who sell them, and what they expect for their ho-hum cars with a handful of unique selling points that are supposedly worth thousands of dollars.

1LE or not, it's still a Camaro. It's not a Ferrari, it's almost a vette, but it's certainly nothing more than a Camaro. AFFORDABLE performance cars these things are. Even 1LEs make embarassingly low HP ratings next to one of today's performance vehicles. For that kind of money, you could score something that is truly worth your hard earned cash. I love thirdgens. I drive them almost exclusively. I spend much (too much) of my time trying to restore these cars to their former glory, and far be it for me to disrespect them; but they aren't worth 60k. They aren't even worth 20k. I don't care what they are, or what stupid factory stamp they have. I hope that jerk selling that car gets angry and indignant with everyone who tells him that his 1LE isn't worth what he THINKS it is, and that he's either really arrogant, or just ignorant to how real business works.

Look at this: http://cleveland.craigslist.org/car/650528205.html

That is a Ferrari for sale in my area. A Ferrari for 25k. I doubt but maybe 2 or 3 of us have even had the priviledge of coming NEAR a Ferrari, much less actually drive one. Ferrari's are feats of engineering, and this guy wants only 25k for his, whereas Jerk McDipshit thinks his crappy 80's American smog car is worth enough to pay off his house.

A message to anyone who thinks their thirdgen will fetch any more than $30,000 without gold-plated fenders: Go to hell.

dsherw00d

I'll start by stating that I have 3 first gens, 1 3rd gen, and 1 4th gen FBody. Most cars are not good investments including most of the high priced ones you see on the auctions. The only people making a killing are the auction houses.

I wonder if the demand for 1LE, Convertibles, Players, etc 3rd gen will increase much. Sure, the very low mile and low production models will occasionally sell well. The rich people auctions always have people that can drop $50k and not even notice it's gone

Example, I've did all the work on my 68. I probably have about $10k in it so far. I figure I have about another $6k to go. At $16k, I won't make much if any money on the sale if you figure in my time. My 69 I'll have about $25k in and it may bring $35k. It's a hobby and I like spending the time on them.

I can find a better use and a much better car for $50k. I would rather have a 2001 Z06 which they made less than 6k that year for $25-30k. Heck, get one of those green ones that they made about 300 of.

Problem is, the rich people are making the average Joe think their car is worth $50k. It's only worth that if you have connections to those rich people and can convince one of them they need to part with $50k. Even then, they don't consider it an investment - it's a HOBBY. They may sell it for less at next years auction. Keep and eye on EBay and the trader mags and see how long the high prices cars are taking to sell. Usually, the price is dropped many times.

-Dan

1992 Z-28

you are right! NO that camaro is not worth $60,000 today. Maybe in 15-20 years if the mileage is still low. Yes I have seen a FERRARI & driven an 85 FERRARI TESTAROSSA, it was a piece of smoking garbage. Different tastes for different people.I still forever will enjoy my 1LEs.

crytical point

ferrari's are nice cars and I have driven a couple pasta rockets and a handfull of bentleys but are really over priced. Now I own a 1978 monza S and there were only 2280 made and barely a handfull registered or left in the US, the car came fully loaded with everything the factory had to offer even the race suspension and when I had it appraised it was only worth $3500 with 41k org miles. Some cars are worth it and even the cosworth vega is in the same braket with my monza because they were rare factory cars that no one cared about for anything more than dropping a big V8 and tearing it up on the drag strip. My 86 Fiero GT fully restored is worth it because its value keeps going up well that I can understand being one of like 3 mid engine cars ever mass produced in america and only being produced for 5 years. Cars value can easily drop with time as fast as it goes up and when gas hits $10 a gallon that 1le will not be worth as much as before considering $150 to fill the tank.

80smetalfan

Say what you want about stupid Ferrari's or any of those other "exotics", I think they are overpriced junk. I have a friend who works at an exotic dealership here in Springfield and almost none of those stupid Ferrari's, Porsche's, Lambo's etc. make it past 150,000 miles without significant drivetrain problems. I don't care if they're handbuilt or cost $300,000k. People treat them like the outrageously overpriced cars they are and they STILL blow up and cost several thousand to repair. We've been making better stuff this side of the Atlantic for 40 years now. Go buy a Vette or a GT40. If Ferrari's engineering is so great, why is it that we can offer cars like the Z06 or the upcoming ZR1 that match or beat exotics track-tested performance with assembly line production and at a fraction of the cost? Sounds like we've got better "engineering" to me.

These cars were impressive in terms of engineering for their time and market, even if that engineering is aged. The original COPOs handling is terrible by modern standards, but that doesn't change that it was excellent in 1969. I would bet there were people like you in the 80s saying the same things about 60s muscle cars, and now those are worth a fortune.

Why you would tell a thirdgen owner who thinks he has a valuable car to go to hell is beyond me. What's the big deal? The car is only worth as much as someone will pay for it and if they want to pay that much for it, that's what it's worth. That's how this market value thing works. Firehawk and TTA owners will probably be grabbing $60k for their cars in 20 years. Should they go to hell too?

I don't really think any of this post matters anyhow. I see a in this thread's future.



Also, thought I'd add: I've sat in a Ferrari. And a Porsche Carrera GT. And a Murcielago. And a Lingenfelter Corvette. Big whoop. A car is a car, and anything that you attach to it beyond that is your personal taste. This explains, for example, why some people find Foxbody Mustangs to be good looking cars.

Fldopp16

I wasn't trying to make a point about Ferrari's being better cars, because if I was trying to do that, I would have included some statistics to prove it. Whether Ferrari's are better than American cars NOW or not, the truth is that they were better cars in the 80s. Most foreign performance cars were. Not because of engineering, per se, rather, that American smog laws were more strict. I happen to own an import performance car, a Porsche, and for as much hype as they get, they're really kind of ho-hum, and pretty unimpressive once you get past the ego-trip of just saying you own one. The parts are expensive, the engine bay is cramped, and my Camaro is at least twice as fast.


The point that I was trying to make was that when you buy a Ferrari, you pay for the name. That's 80% of the expense right there. Alot of you may say otherwise, but I'd bet anyone's soul that if someone offered to trade their Ferrari for your thirdgen (both in similar condition) you would take the deal without hesitation. That's the only point I was trying to make. The MARKET determines the price, and right now, the market says Ferraris are worth more than thirdgens. As for the arrogantly priced 1LE, don't even try to argue its worth. Who even cares how low the damn milage is? Mileage is only one factor that kills cars. TIME kills cars. Just the fact that the damn thing is 20 years old means that its systems naturally die. Materials decay, things decompose. It's almost irrelavent that there are so few miles, unless the thing was stored in a special vacuum bubble out in space or something.

Maybe that's what some people think they are buying when they drop 60k on something like an 80s smog car. Maybe it was orbiting Saturn sometime after the fall of the Berlin wall and just last month set ground in Houston JUST FOR YOU. Some of you had a point earlier about rich people dropping 100k without even feeling it. It's a priviledge of the priviledged few. The fact remains: it's just a car. If the thing DOES sell, then it was the sale of the century, but only a fool would actually believe that a 1LE is special enough to take out another mortgage. 60k would purchase 30 DECENT looking thirdgens. Hell, its enough money to purchase 3 and restore them professionally to a point where they would look like they had only 87 miles. So what's the hype? I hope for the salesman's sake that he encounters a mentally-retarded sports car enthusiest with a 60-thousand dollar inheritance and a hardon for rare, undriven chevy performance vehicles from the 1980s. It would be a match made in heaven.


I don't really even know why this topic became such an issue. If nothing I've said so convinces anyone that these cars aren't worth half of the asking price of that 1LE, just stare at that number at the top of the thread for a few seconds. Just look at it, then ask yourself if any thirdgen should pull that kind of revenue.

Some of you are in for a very rude awakening when you go to sell your "rare" cars.

t_towner

I personally know of a third gen that recently sold for just shy of six figures. No auction hype, BS or fish stories.

$60k for that 1LE is WAY too much but there are guys who will pay mid 30's for it. IMO there are probably only three or four third gens currently worth $60k or more today.

92 Formula

iTrader: (2)

This has been open long enough.